Topic: [BitFunder] BTCINVEST - Low risk investment fund | Market cap: 2000+ BTC - page 3. (Read 45540 times)

I too am concerned that allowing Ukyo to liquidate the funds is a bit like letting the fox guard the henhouse.  He hasn't disappeared, and he's paid out a whopping 6% of owed funds, and he claims he's working towards repaying everybody.  I have to say I have a bit of trouble taking his word for it, and this whole "I can't tell you what happened to your money without your money disappearing" bit seems just a bit too convenient of an excuse.  I look forward to publicly acknowledging that my fears were unfounded one day, but right now the only person I trust less than Ukyo is TradeFortress.

Maybe we should be looking for someone else to liquidate the assets that can be seized from BTCINVEST/TradeFortress.  Someone either truly trustworthy and impartial, or someone willing to put a significant surety in the hands of a trustworthy third party as insurance against going missing with the seized assets.

I know I'd be willing to pay a reasonable percentage of seized/liquidated assets as payment for service.

Any ideas how we'd go about making this happen?

Nothing wrong with posting facts. So let's clear some things up.

1. Correct
2. The site allowed deposits for 2+ years. Notice that all funds would not be available for withdraw went up within a few days of the situation becoming what it is now.
3. Correct
4. Correct, and incorrect. Many users posted that they were receiving manual payouts until it ceased due to the final scenario at hand.
5. I promise to make the reasoning public as soon as we can without adverse effects. The effect/spike on bitcoin is unrelated to the reasoning but related to other things.
6. Correct and correct.
7. I never said anything about an NDA or that I signed anything. Not sure where you pulled this out of.

Unlike TF who has also suffered a "major setback" I am still here and intend to do my best to correct for things.

I did not make this offer with the intentions of earning a %.

And no offense taken.

-Ukyo

I would agree that Ukyo is in a good position to do this. At least it wouldn't add another person to the chain of people that could lose our money.

Unfortunately, Ukyo has undergoing financial trouble of his own. Here is the case against him. I'm very sorry to have to air this information.
(1) He ran a site similar in functionality and size to TF's inputs.io. As of a few months ago, people were unable to withdraw their coins.
(2) Ukyo continued to allow deposits for more than a month, without posting a notice that they would not be able to withdraw.
(3) Ukyo confirmed that the bitcoins where there, but that the software was overloaded. (Spoiler: the coins were later reported "gone")
(4) Ukyo claimed he was manually processing withdrawals, and the depositors planned to announce when they had received their withdrawal. Nobody announced that they received a withdrawal following Ukyo's claim (until the recent 6% payout, which I'm very grateful for).
(5) Ukyo made several promises that he would be able to explain what happened (and that the news would cause a spike in the bitcoin price).
(6) Ukyo asked the NeoBee person (CryptoCyrpus) for help. CryptoCyrpus made several promises that they would be able to explain what happened with everyone's money. CryptoCyrpus finally reported that the bitcoins were "gone."
(7) Most recently, Ukyo claims he can't tell us what happened to our money because he signed an NDA. He apparently signed something that could get him in trouble if he told us what happened to the money we gave him.

I enumerated these by memory, so I might have made minor errors, but I think each point is evident from the public record.

I appreciate his offer to help, and there's a good chance that it might help us get our money back. Also, if he's willing to help, I'm happy to help redeem his reputation. And, there's a good chance that posting this might make him angry and refuse to help, and for that, I apologize. But fool me three times, shame on me :-)

On the other hand, it's pretty bad that Ukyo signed something saying that he can't tell us what happened to our money. I assume it's generally not sound business to trust someone with your money who has lost all of your money before.

Therefore, I'd prefer he transfers the assets to TAT (if he agrees, or pretty much anyone else) for him to liquidate. Transfering the AM-PT shares, at least, is as simple as sending FriedCat an email. I'd happily pay a % to TAT (and even to Ukyo, for helping) for this service.

I'm open to discussion, and like you, I hope this is resolved quickly.

What we need is a liquidator.  Short of chasing TF personally for what he owns (plan C?), someone who can confiscate some of his assets to distribute to his shareholders sounds like a great idea for a plan B (plan A being TF manning up and doing what's right).

As the person who used to run the exchange upon which a good number of BTCINVEST assets were held, I agree that Ukyo would be in a good position to do this.

If BTCINVEST held assets in weexchange then this also puts Ukyo in a good place to reclaim those assets on behalf of shareholders.

If memory serves, not only did BTCINVEST hold exchange-listed shares, it also held direct shares in AM - and in this case, convincing Friedcat to either liquidate the shares, or give them to Ukyo to liquidate on behalf of BTCINVEST shareholders, would also be a good move IMHO.


Fingers crossed.

Anything that will return my BTC back I will agree and thanks you.

That would be great, Ukyo, thanks..

I own 10 shares of BTCINVEST and I second that. Thank you Ukyo.

I was holding 115 shares of BTCINVEST when TF froze it, and later disappeared. I would definitely agree to Ukyo taking control of any remaining assets on Bitfunder and liquidating them for the benefit of shareholders.

Thank you very much for your offer Ukyo! An unexpected bit of positive news at the start of the New Year.

Happy New Year to all.

I would have to go by the final list on BitFunder.
To my knowledge TF did not do anything for anyone so anything "transferred" to him has no use/value/effect.

-Ukyo

Thanks Ukyo.

Question: For those who transferred their shares to TF (for integration into the portal), would we be able to reclaim these shares in Limbo?

There are a few issues involved here.

A. The share count is less than 42.
B. I think, (I do not have the info in front of me when typing this), that the shares I have frozen were in TF's personal account. I am not sure there are any in the BTCInvest account.
C. While I may have control enough to distribute shares, FriedCat has full control over past and future dividends and is holding that from here on.
So in theory he has more control, I am just giving him confirmed and completed versions of the already public AssetList for G.AsicMiner-PT that he has.

As soon as I have a chance I will confirm some of this.

Also, a few people have asked if I would be willing to take over the BTCInvest asset and try to help wrap it up since TF has disappeared since I have the most knowledge over the account at least on BF. As to this, I would consider it, but only if TF does not pop up and agree to take it over and do it right, and if the other asset issuers would accept control over the assets since I obviously would not be able to sign a message for the public address. If it were to happen, I would probably put up a similar claim portal to the one I am making for Ukyo.Loan. And also the majority of BTCInvest'ors would need to agree.

-Ukyo

Good suggestion, I would think it might be worth asking Havelock or even TAT as both of these have good reputation, funds and some element of vested interest.

According to dooglus when the inputs.io "hack" happened:


Not idea if that was a personal TradeFortress JD account or these funds belong to BTCINVEST ...

Actually, I don't really know what funds we have remaining in bitfunder. Of course, if it were only 42 AM shares, then we wouldn't need more than 13 BTC in escrow.

Hi Ukyo and other btcinvestors,

Ukyo, with your help, we were able to prevent TF from profiting further, without having to debase ourselves by relying on the government. Thanks!!!

I don't think handing the PT shares to FC makes sense. We have a lot of different assets to liquidate, and we can't expect the issuer of each asset to do us the favor of liquidating the assets that she issues. In particular, FC is very busy, has no reason to help, and isn't remarkably communicative.

And, not that Ukyo offered, but it's probably inappropriate to ask him to manage the liquidation (i.e., weex).

We should either:
(A) find someone with a vested interest in liquidating the funds, or
(B) create someone with a vested interest by paying that person to liquidate the funds.

Regardless of whether we choose (A) or (B), we should try to have the liquidator leave a lot of (~300) BTC in escrow. However, I'm not sure we can find a liquidator that will put up that kind of money. Would someone look?

Now, I'm reluctant to say this, but I might be a good choice if we go with (A):
(1) I'm the investor with the most BTCINVEST shares (500 @ 1Jw9z...Qtd),
(2) I'm okay with sharing my identity and contact info,
(3) I have a good reputation (PhD student at Berkeley), and
(4) I'm offering.

So, what do you think we should do?

We should also continue to talk to the issuers of the other assets that underly BTCINVEST. I've sent a similar plea on 2013-12-05 to TF for the direct AM shares, but I haven't received a response. We still need to find out what happened to the assets in btct.co, and talk to dooglus of JD. Does anyone (who won't make threats) want to help?


In any case, you can buy the shares as they are liquidated, right?

Did you ever receive a response from friedcat on this? I presume they were all liquidated. If by some miracle they were not and he still holds them then He might be the best person to handle the AM shares and passthrough. If not then It should probably fall to Ukyo as he also will have control over the 2,057 ukyo.loan shares and possibly some influence with the 16309 graet.loan shares. if they have not already gone.??

I'm not sure it's fair on Friedcat to ask this of him, nor do I think it's the correct thing to do.  Between me as a shareholder in TF's little disaster, and FC, there are two other people that IMO should be stepping up to clean up the mess.  TF, of course is number one, but good luck with that.  And Ukyo (manager of G.ASICMINER-PT?) is number two.  Ukyo is the issuer of the shares that TF held in trust for his investors, not FC.  Ukyo holds AM shares in trust and issues G.ASICMINER-PT shares one-for-one.  If one of Ukyo's shareholders messes up as TF has, it's Ukyo's mess to clean up.  FC has zero relationship to TF.

I'm also not sure what Ukyo means when he says that the G.ASICMINER-PT shares are in a "questionable state".  Either TF owns the shares, held in trust on behalf of his investors, or he doesn't.

So assuming that the shares are real, seems to me that, barring TF actually stepping up and doing anything at all positive (why start now?), then the logical course of action would be to liquidate the shares and distribute the proceeds pro-rata to his shareholders.  Personally I would prefer to take ownership of the shares, but the chances of there ending up fractional shares is probably very high.