Topic: [BitFunder] Moving Forward/Resolution Process - page 42. (Read 292108 times)

You have likely been scammed.  Ukyo owes the community over 2 million dollars and owes some people for deposits they made over 2 months ago.

+10000

There is currently an issue with some bitcoin clients. Weex's bitcoin client happen to be one of them. Ukyo is currently working on fixing it:

Could anybody help me, how I can withdrawal btc from weexchange? I can't see any option on weexclaims.weexchange.

If he really would be such a ill gambler then for sure he would have used all the bitcoins since he could not help himself than trying to win it back with the remaining bitcoins. So i think that possibility is unlikely. If it was ukyo, which he denies, then it would be something more rational.

This is actually the only point in the whole story that is

1) A fact everyone knows who is involved
2) Proves that Ukyo, at lest in some respects, did not act in good faith to resolve the problems.

Given this, it is very hard to believe anything that we are told.

It's possible that the coins are held up in a court order/gag order but it is in no way probable.  Remember that Ukyo's

• traveled outside the country
• distributed some of the money back to users
• been pretty active on the forums asking people not to act

Ukyo would be forbidden to do all of these (or at least told to sit tight by a lawyer) if he was involved with or under some kind of investigation.  There's no way in hell Ukyo could have done any of those three if he was under the national security letter gag order.

Instead, we've got a guy who has an incredible thirst for capital:

• owns a profitable securities exchange
• owns a profitable payment processor
• still needs to finance himself by issuing personal debt

Why does Ukyo need so much capital?  The probable answer is that he's pissing it away on gambling or bad investments.

Ukyo, does this loss of 94% of the coins relate to theft that is (hopefully) being sorted out by authorities, does it relate to confiscation from some authorities, or does it relate to something else?

Any progress at all on the WeExchange "stuck coins" or "coins not available" problem that's preventing everyone from getting their bitcoins back?

So no income but how will it be solved? There are people in debt for weexchange? And i dont speak about shares you might be able to sell.

But i think youre wrong in one point. You think if weexchange is closed youre out. I dont think so. Its not a normal business. Its a business storing money. Nothing should have happened to the money since you werent allowed to move it somewhere. There is no business risk involved that could lead to a bankruptcy. So the only explaination that the bitcoins are gone is something illegal. Eithers its you that did something illegal or someone other stole it. Either way... if weexchange is bankrupt doesnt mean the thieve doesnt need to pay back then. The same goes for the funds that have to be paid back to the owners.
If its a database error... why was there no backup? I cant imagine you really missed that point. But if you did and thats the problem then its not that you can blame it on the company. If it were that easy everyone would create a company and "get a backup fault".
Next thing is... you knew long time that payouts dont work and you did nothing. I probably wouldnt have uploaded my many bitcoins to weexchange if there was a warning about the problems.
All these arent things that a company can shield from. People try that of course but there are limits when it comes to personal fault. And i dont speak about companies where the owner is liable by law anyway.

Saying that... of course... if you really have to work the bitcoins back to us it will take a very long time. Thats why i want to know if there is a chance to get the missing bitcoins back without you having to work them back. How big is that chance?

Just to be clear. I am not threatening to "throw" weexchange into bankruptcy.
As I have stated many times, I wish to avoid this as well so that things can be corrected.
What I stated is how "others" can _force it into bankruptcy_ with a checkmate leaving it no choice.
Currently there is a choice, and there is no requirement to do this at this time.

-Ukyo

Remember kids; next time you want to steal 5 million usd or more just follow these east steps:

- Create a bitcoin service (use a template for ultimate ease like bitfunder)
- Take your customers funds.

- When they ask for them back you reply "for legal reasons you cant have them or know why they are gone but we are totally working on it"

- Buy vacation house in south america and change name.
- Live happily retired.

I did not set out to advocate illegal actions.
I stated that things could be 6% worse.  That's a fact, not advice.
I further stated that with legal options off the table, the only thing that remains is accepting defeat or breaking the law.  This is also neither endorsement nor advice, simply logic.
I don't care if you steal music, your golden rule or your take on Star Wars - I buy and sell trust, I can not afford questionable ethics.

"which leaves illegal action as the only recourse for those who don't enjoy being punked as much as you do."

Utter, utter garbage. There is no justification for taking illegal action. You sound like the thieves that say "Well, music is too expensive, or I can't afford it, or the RIAA are thieves themselves, so I have no recourse but to steal the music.". You can simply not steal it and move on. Especially in this situation.

The people here advocating illegal action have absolutely no clue about the golden rule. None at all. Go ahead, ruin everything even more. Congratu-****ing-lations.

Nice try. Completely ignore the work put into making a claims portal, the trip to Cyprus, the chats, the posts here.

Oh, ignore, what a great feature actually.

It could have been up to 6% worse.

lophie

Have you ever watched Star Wars? You're behaving and thinking like someone consumed. Don't make me say who. Let go of your hate. Ukyo is still here, working on it, and has returned 1/15th of the funds. It could have been worse: he's nowhere to be found, had not returned anything, had not went to Cyprus to seek help from Cryptocyprus, had not been on dev chats to ask questions and seek more help, and not posting here anymore. Buying time in this way doesn't make any sense.

Of course something is wrong. Of course it looks shady. Perhaps he is between a rock and a hard place.

But to threaten another person with a death threat, plus others related to him, that's screwing up big time. I know you believe Ukyo is evil. Even if true, to allow yourself to do the same is... well, you'd be no better. Either you are pretending, or you are seriously letting yourself go overboard. What good will it do to hurt others, their family, yourself... no good at all.

Why can't you open yourself to the possibility that Ukyo will actually try (depending on how you see it): A) Fix his mistake B) Fix the problems and return the money C) Work out a solution D) Redeem himself or some other positive outcome. A threat like you made is just not going to help.

Plus, you really aren't thinking clearly, because on top of hurting yourself and others, you'll totally screw everyone else here by removing any last chance we have for Ukyo to fix this. Someone else in these forums might just decide to do the same thing to your friends/family or even kill themselves because of your drastic actions. What a great cycle you'll start.

Could you change your tune? How depressing.

You knew the risks of investing on an unsecured market with uninsured funds, and you defend your death threats?

Credibility has fallen to 0 with you.

Christ, guys. I'm pretty sure Occam's Razor applies here.

What are the chances that a gag order has been issued vs. the likelihood that Ukyo is simply a scammer, incompetent, or just making up stories to buy time?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gag_order
"A national security letter, an administrative subpoena used by the FBI, has an attached gag order which restricts the recipient from ever saying anything about being served with one. The government has issued hundreds of thousands of such NSLs accompanied with gag orders."

I am not a "legal pro" but to speculate, it could be that some users have been involved in some criminal activity and some government agency are holding everyone's coins while the case is being investigated.