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Topic: [BitFunder] Moving Forward/Resolution Process - page 45. (Read 292132 times)

legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1040
There was no lawyer hired using WeExchange funds because there is none.

Really. Not so long ago I questioned you about the legality of your businesses, and you replied this:

Quote
I have 3 lawfirms around the world that I am working with to try my best to make sure BitFunder is safe and to get government sponsorship / licensing
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3216254

Now you are saying you dont have a lawyer?

legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1035
Let's just focus on getting the next portal finished, the Ukyo.Loan one

With all due respect, let's rather:

  • Just focus here on getting the remaining 95% repaid to BF/WeEx users (this topic)
  • Create or join another topic for the Ukyo.Loan, because if you granted Ukyo a loan, I'm all sorry for you but at least you did (and he did not repay it yet), while "we" (here on the topic of BF/WeEx) never granted Ukyo any loan at all in the first place

I'm not denying your right to ask Ukyo's attention to repay his loan eventually, but let's not forget the above, please.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
I think you missed the point.
There was no lawyer hired using WeExchange funds because there is none.
And I did not take the funds out.

Let's just focus on getting the next portal finished, the Ukyo.Loan one
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
I think you missed the point.
There was no lawyer hired using WeExchange funds because there is none.
And I did not take the funds out.

What you see is facts.

There is nothing available for WeExchange Au to be able to defend itself from a lawsuit.
It would have _no_ choice but to file bankruptcy.
This is not my choice, this is something that would be forced by a third party wishing to spend funds for the sole purpose of closing the company with no other results.
If bankruptcy is declared then all debtors (users and alike) will get an equal share of current assets and funds (nothing), the company is closed, and that is that.
I did not take the btc or have done anything unlawful with them. This has been said many times. We are trying to work things out to the best possible outcome
and make everyone 100% whole.

-Ukyo
jr. member
Activity: 57
Merit: 27
What a douchebag ukyo is, hiding behind his lawyer hired from our money.


Indeed. Claiming that if weExchange is sued then he will throw it in to bankruptcy and then nobody will get paid is true only if no crime was committed by him.  If he took the bitcoins out of bitcoin, HE committed a crime and he is liable both for returning the property and for having a criminal conviction along with whatever penalties that carries. 

There really isn't any reason to continue to trust him without bringing the police into the picture.
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1018
Buzz App - Spin wheel, farm rewards
Is that same legal reason preventing him from telling people what happened to the coins also the same reason why he allowed people to deposit to WeExchange for 2 months when he knew that the WeExchange users would not be able to receive their coins back?

We might not have much information but don't change the facts. Deposit of funds were disabled less than a month after the withdrawal problems started.
While we have yet to see proof of of the opposite, you can't just make the statement that "he knew that the users would not receive their coins".

I think it is quite clear that WeExchange has suffered from multiple issues as Ukyo also said. At least the bitcoind issue and some legal issue, which probably started around the 20th of November.

You are right that it was not 2 months, but it is true that Ukyo still allowed deposits when he new that withdrawal was practically impossible. At that point he might not have known that funds would get stuck for such a long time but at least he should have warned people that withdrawal was impossible for some time. For some time he failed to do this, in spite of several people asking for this explicitly.

Sorry for delay haven't checked this in a while...

I stand by the 2 month claim. Some folks had the inability to withdraw there deposits longer than 60 days ago.  Here is one person for example:
___________________________
Pompobit
   
Re: The People VS. Ukyo (AKA WeExchange 2nd Stage Scam)!
November 19, 2013, 12:44:39 AM
   
 #2
I add my requests too, I trusted Ukyo but I'm loosing my faith day by day he keeps to remain vague about this issue. Avoid blocking withdrawals from weexchange seems odd, too.

Username          WeExchange ID                                 Amount                  Time Stamp
Pompolus     uIIxCevq18AuQe1i2jTftijKq6Fj03cf            5.49994209BTC   2013-11-02
Pompolus     GlWNK4426syVhELe97ew7K62gOmqtfD3     5.00000000BTC    2013-11-02


stucked since november 2nd, 17 days and counting
   ___________________________________

As seen in the one of many threads about this scam  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=337523.0


For sake of argument let's say then that Ukyo knew , without question, for over 45 days that users would not be able to withdraw any btc they deposited to WeExchange.  I did not really receive a satisfactory answer from any of Ukyo' protectors and loving fans on how, and in what circumstances, this could be seen as okay, to collect funds from people with no intention or ability to pay them back, for or at least, over one month say.

The whole gag order thing is highly improbable. Not impossible, but I highly doubt it. The much more likely reason that we don't have our coins is that Ukyo did something really bad or really dumb, or stole the money.
 
At the very, very least, please at least give yourself a deadline on how long you are going to wait before doing anything, or accepting the money as lost. Another week? Another month? Give Ukyo a year? At least set this for yourself and stick to it.
member
Activity: 74
Merit: 10

Just the fact that I have not given up with everything and trying to do everything I can to make things right as soon as possible.

Happy new year all, let's try to make it so.

-Ukyo


Happy New Year.  Hope it does resolve soon and thank you for resolving the Asicminer PT shares.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250

Ukyo: As has been said before. I could throw my hands up in the air, say screw it, and leave everyone in a heavy lurch
Ukyo: Or, I can do the right thing, and press on with the expectation of correcting things.
Ukyo: Your choice. Not mine.

Don't make him have to hurt you, bro.
*italics, lol

Just the fact that I have not given up with everything and trying to do everything I can to make things right as soon as possible.

Happy new year all, let's try to make it so.

-Ukyo
newbie
Activity: 57
Merit: 0
Now I can't even login to https://weexclaims.weexchange.co to make a partial withdraw. Why???
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 1083
Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile
Looks like ukyo spoke a bit more in #activemining:
Code:
(01:25:33) shabba: i don't understand why this is all still so secret
(01:25:39) shabba: NDA should be lifted by now
(01:27:15) Ukyo: most NDA's don't have timeline restrictions.
(01:27:29) Ukyo: Usually stand in place until all concerned parties are in agreement.
(01:28:09) Sebastan: Ukyo... how long will your NDA stay? :)
(01:28:49) Ukyo: I have many NDA's throughout my life. hehe
(01:29:41) Sebastan: what about the weexchange one?
(01:29:49) Ukyo: There are many. :)
(01:30:01) Ukyo: And still, I would not be able to say.
(01:30:09) Ukyo: That is generally part of an NDA. :)
(01:30:13) kleeck0: If you're into UFC or orthopedic repair you might find this interesting: http://www.ufc.com/media/ufc-dr-sanders-breakdown
(01:30:21) WildFire_ca: So who ever is mining at that pool addy has been mining since the 7th of Dec. https://blockchain.info/address/1Nbq2XZaRsKknf5fcT2wTXvBS31PaUWSeX
(01:30:22) ActiveBot: Title: Bitcoin Block Explorer - Blockchain.info
(01:31:31) Sebastan: *sigh* i think ill try the lawyer way then and hopefully get more info that way ukyo...
(01:31:51) shabba: and they aren't moving funds around either…all the BTC has been mined is still in that address
(01:31:51) Ukyo: You must do what you feel you must.
(01:32:16) Ukyo: Plesae keep in mind that sometimes even lawyers alone can not change things.
(01:32:24) saulimus [[email protected]] hat den Raum betreten.
(01:32:41) WildFire_ca: 245.29 Th/s  is 10 of our machines..
(01:33:04) Ukyo: Sebastan: I would love to tell everyone everything, it would get a lot of pressure off of my back.
(01:33:20) WildFire_ca: Its probley someone who bought 10 of our machines   FFS
(01:33:27) Ukyo: This has been a huge pain in the ass however it is the only real option moving forward.
(01:33:36) Sebastan: so you say i wouldnt know more with the lawyer? not even when i would sue you? (What i dont plan yet...)
(01:34:05) Ukyo: Sebastan: A lawyer contacting my lawyer would not allow you any information not already available.
(01:34:27) Ukyo: If it was as easy as providing to your lawyer, then it would be the same as providing it to all.
(01:34:58) Ukyo: There is no special kind of lawyer to lawyer relationship
(01:35:04) Ukyo: and even if there was, it would not extend to you.
(01:35:12) WildFire_ca: That is why you go to discovery
(01:35:21) Ukyo: Yes, you must go into a full lawsuite.
(01:35:27) Ukyo: *-e
(01:35:42) Sebastan: so what would happen if i sue you? surely then the problems have come to light?
(01:35:54) Ukyo: And then ask the Judge for special permission to get access to the information.
(01:36:10) Ukyo: That depends on the Judge.
(01:36:20) Ukyo: And what the judge is capable of / willing to do
(01:36:31) Ukyo: Please keep in mind, sueing me personally wont get you anything
(01:36:35) Ukyo: except a dismissed case.
(01:36:53) Ukyo: Your issue would be with WeExchange Australia, the corporation
(01:37:04) Ukyo: And you have to sue for damages, not information.
(01:38:12) Ukyo: At this point in time, no matter what amount a judge awarded you, and regardless of you learning the reason, the outcome would result in WeExchange filing bankruptsy, paying out pretty much nothing since nothing is left, and the end to any possible chance of WeExchange Australia being able to correct the situation.,
(01:38:18) Ukyo: on a going forward basis.
(01:38:18) WildFire_ca: All you do is file  bring the case to discovery and then based on what you find you either drop the case or proceed.
(01:38:20) Ukyo: Thats all there is to it.
(01:38:42) Ukyo: As has been said before. I could throw my hands up in the air, say screw it, and leave everyone in a heavy lurch
(01:39:05) Ukyo: Or, I can do the right thing, and press on with the expectation of correcting things.
(01:39:09) Ukyo: Your choice. Not mine.
(01:39:12) Ukyo: As you clearly stated.
(01:39:30) auto2nr1_: ukyo, you should do the right thing =)
(01:39:35) auto2nr1_: how come its taking so long
(01:39:44) auto2nr1_: how much longer do you think for you to correct this situation?
(01:39:44) Ukyo: It only takes 1 individual to force things the company into bankruptsy.
(01:40:01) Ukyo: auto2nr1: Dont know yet. I don't have the ansers. If I did I would have give them out.
(01:40:08) Ukyo: answers*
(01:40:24) WildFire_ca: Holy crap Ken loged on to BTCtalk today.. THERE IS A GOD
(01:40:28) Sebastan: you know... lets assume someone lost money... a judge gave a gag order and claimed you cant pay out bitcoins that might belong to someone other... if i dont sue then the other person would get my bitcoins because he sued and not iam... thats what i fear... but you sound like there are no bitcoins anymore. they arent held back by any government for a sueing person...
(01:40:46) Ukyo: Sebastan: thats not how it works.
(01:40:52) Ukyo: a. theres nothing for someone else to get mroe than you
(01:41:08) Ukyo: b. the company would file for bankrupsty before a conclusion to your case
(01:41:19) Ukyo: this throwing out any decision by a judge
(01:41:27) Ukyo: as all debtors would have to be handled equally.
(01:41:38) Ukyo: which is next to nothing.
(01:41:51) Ukyo: or technicalyl nothing, since there is no profit
(01:41:56) Ukyo: and all costs come out of pocket currently
(01:42:07) Ukyo: Weex has never charged you, or anyone else a fee
(01:42:17) Ukyo: at least, nothing of any quantitative value
(01:42:58) Ukyo: Because of this, any lawsuit would instnatly put the company into foreclosure because there are no funds available to defend a company that has nothing.
(01:43:02) WildFire_ca: Are you still talking with NeoB.. Or have you finished dealing with them and the balls in there court now?
(01:43:11) Ukyo: I am still working with NeoB
(01:43:16) WildFire_ca: cool
(01:43:21) Ukyo: But thinigs do not work on bitcoin time in the real world
(01:43:28) Ukyo: Esp. during the holidays,
(01:43:35) WildFire_ca: Very true
(01:43:44) Sebastan: sounds like there are no bitcoins held back. but if they are stolen it doesnt make sense to be quiet about it since the thieve knows already what he did. if you made an error and lost the keys... sounds unlikely then keeping silent means nothing too... dont understand this...
(01:43:52) Ukyo: Sebastan: "held back" ?
(01:43:54) Ukyo: there is nothign to hold back
(01:43:58) Ukyo: We have distributed what we could
(01:44:02) Ukyo: there was no "profits"
(01:44:06) Ukyo: you were charged no "fees"
(01:44:42) WildFire_ca: Unless your Cointerra,, those bitches packaged there chips during Xmas
(01:44:47) Sebastan: ok... but the user bitcoins should be there regardless of fees or profits... the assumption would be a government seized them. but it sounds like there simply is nothing seized
(01:45:16) Ukyo: That is your interpretation.
(01:45:28) shabba: Sebastan are you referring to bitfunder or weexchange? ukyo is saying weex has no BTC
(01:45:30) Ukyo: At this time I am not giving any details on the funds.
(01:45:41) shabba: but they could possibly be under the company of bitfunder
(01:46:00) Sebastan: shabba... bitfunder never had bitcoins at all. the bitcoins were stored in weexchange in reality...
(01:46:04) Ukyo: shabba: weex held all bitcoins for bitfunder. Bitfunder transfered control all bitcoins except for a small amount to weexchange accounts. Bitfudner has no bitcoins or control of any
(01:46:21) shabba: I don't have anything in this
(01:46:28) shabba: but sounds like you're in some deep shit lol
(01:46:30) shabba: good luck yall
(01:46:34) Ukyo: Very much so.
(01:46:38) Ukyo: It stinks.  badly.
(01:46:44) Sebastan: *sigh* If its really a gag order i want to kick the inventor in the nuts very hard
(01:46:59) Ukyo: But I am trying to make the most of it and get people taken care of to the best of my ability.
(01:47:05) Ukyo: As long as the people will let me.
(01:47:35) Ukyo: But once it is taken out of my hands, there is nothing left for me to do to make things right.
(01:47:42) WildFire_ca: I think most of all everyone wants a positive outcome.
(01:47:52) Ukyo: Which is why we ask people to be patient.
(01:48:38) Sebastan: I wonder how long that will work...
(01:48:59) Ukyo: well, the alternative is nothing at this point.
(01:49:20) Ukyo: You have said yourself
(01:49:26) Ukyo: that the addresses are empty.
(01:49:29) Evolyn__ [[email protected]] hat den Raum betreten.
(01:49:32) chairforce1 [48c88378@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.200.131.120] hat den Raum betreten.
(01:49:37) Sebastan: You dont want to work off the bitcoins that you owe dont you?
(01:49:44) Ukyo: I do.
(01:49:51) Ukyo: And I will use everythign at my disposal
(01:49:55) Ukyo: to make up for things in the mean time
(01:50:14) Sebastan: if weexchange dies and there is a gag order and seized bitcoins then only weexchange would be lost... i dont really see why weexchange is needed in there...
(01:50:33) Ukyo: thats because of your limited understanding of the situation.
(01:50:38) Ukyo: and how things work.
(01:50:38) Sebastan: if you want to work off then it sounds like you did an error...
(01:50:53) Ukyo: or I simple want it resolved.
(01:50:53) Sebastan: or to buy time
(01:50:57) Ukyo: And keep my reputation
(01:51:02) kleeck0: Ukyo, you can come clean my kitchen for 1000BTC
(01:51:10) Ukyo: kleeck0: deal
(01:51:13) kleeck0: :P
(01:51:17) Ukyo: I'll get Ken to help
(01:51:17) Ukyo: :P
(01:51:29) Ukyo: Mebbe ask SAM if hes interested.
(01:51:33) kleeck0: :P
(01:51:34) Ukyo: Then I can sit back and "manage" :P
(01:51:44) kleeck0: And Alberto
(01:51:49) Ukyo: same thing :P
(01:51:54) kleeck0 hat den Raum verlassen ("Leaving").
(01:52:05) kleeck0 [[email protected]] hat den Raum betreten.
(01:52:12) kleeck0: and the tatti duo
(01:52:20) JimJones [[email protected]] hat den Raum betreten.
(01:52:23) kleeck0: also nefario
(01:52:25) JimJones: y0
(01:52:33) WildFire_ca: lol
(01:52:47) Ukyo: does nefario still owe ppl?
(01:53:00) kleeck0: I think
(01:53:02) Ukyo: thought he paid most ppl off
(01:53:10) Evolyn_ hat den Raum verlassen (quit: Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
(01:53:20) Ukyo: (not that I am defending him)
(01:53:35) Ukyo: But in some ways, I can understand why he did what he did.
(01:54:06) Sebastan: anyway... thanks for writing uky
(01:54:09) Sebastan: ukyo
(01:54:36) Ukyo: Sebastan: i really wish I could do more right now
(01:54:51) Ukyo: but if things are to work out fully for everyone, I am very limited on things.
(01:55:20) Sebastan: i really hope the mystery is as big as you make it... :)
(01:55:34) Ukyo: Depends on point of view probably.
(01:56:25) Ukyo: But the point is to make good on things as soon as its possible. If something happens that allows it all to be cleared up sooner, all the better
(01:56:56) JimJones: wasn't ken suposed to make a fucking weekly report today?
(01:57:04) chairforce1: YUP
(01:57:05) Ukyo: JimJones: good luck on that.
(01:57:21) JimJones: Ukyo, good luck on your getting ur shares
(01:57:28) Ukyo: Sebastan: I was mentioning the other day. Its a known fact I personally hold some ActM shares.
(01:57:39) Ukyo: I have been in consideraiton of selling those for distribution to weex users.
(01:58:07) chairforce1: what price would u sell them at?
(01:58:37) Ukyo: Honestly, I have no idea at this point. First have to make it past the issue of Ken.
(01:58:57) Ukyo: They may have to go up for a fair auction
(01:58:59) Sebastan: I would buy for 0.0006btc per share... i wonder how good shares can be sold...
(01:59:02) Sebastan: how many do you have?
(01:59:18) auto2nr1_: yea how many shares do you have ukyo?
(01:59:19) Ukyo: Over 100k.
(01:59:48) Ukyo: I was an original investor. about 100~150 btc worth.
(01:59:58) Sebastan: ok... maybe 100btc if youre lucky... but maybe the price is rising when its traded...
(02:00:01) shaofis [48d6eaca@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.72.214.234.202] hat den Raum betreten.
(02:00:22) Ukyo: if Ken actually manages to do somethign with ActM
(02:00:25) Ukyo: it could be worth a notable sum
(02:00:50) Ukyo: but as the days go on, further and futher from the deadlines, with no new deadlines, or inforatiom, that seems less likely
(02:00:55) Sebastan: thats correct... so hopefully he plans to bring share on the exchange when he has very good news. that would be the best for you
(02:01:12) shaofis: Update posted for those who haven't seen
(02:01:33) shaofis: Zero on the listing on an exchange
(02:02:15) Sebastan: i posted the log in bitfunder resolution thread since its an open chat here...
(02:02:28) Ukyo: Thats fine.
(02:02:34) Ukyo: This is a public resource.
legendary
Activity: 2674
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I know that these wallets are different. The deposit address i used will be used to pay withdraws from others and so on. It doesnt look like the bitcoins are collected in another address in the meanwhile.

So if everyone looks at their deposit address and there are still bitcoins or there are no bitcoins anymore then this should say something.

Or will you say the bitcoins are forwarded to different other addresses that ukyo still owns but in a way that one cant tell anymore that its ukyo's address?
Well the last transfer from my deposit address (which is now empty) was in August. Every transfer (I saw) were to addresses which at least used to have a lot of activity. Too much activity to be individuals imo, so probably weex or other exchanges. Some of these addresses still contains substantial amounts.

My personal guess is that Ukyo is still in control of the coins but he isn't allowed to use them.

Maybe if everyone is posting the addresses where the bitcoins went to we can find out where the addresses belong to? To other exchanges or whatever...

*sigh* multiplied 100
member
Activity: 120
Merit: 10
I know that these wallets are different. The deposit address i used will be used to pay withdraws from others and so on. It doesnt look like the bitcoins are collected in another address in the meanwhile.

So if everyone looks at their deposit address and there are still bitcoins or there are no bitcoins anymore then this should say something.

Or will you say the bitcoins are forwarded to different other addresses that ukyo still owns but in a way that one cant tell anymore that its ukyo's address?
Well the last transfer from my deposit address (which is now empty) was in August. Every transfer (I saw) were to addresses which at least used to have a lot of activity. Too much activity to be individuals imo, so probably weex or other exchanges. Some of these addresses still contains substantial amounts.

My personal guess is that Ukyo is still in control of the coins but he isn't allowed to use them.
legendary
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Will no one check their deposit address at weexchange if its empy or not? We would be a step further when we knew that the bitcoins in weexchange are gone from the addresses there. Then ukyo dont have the bitcoins anymore instead having no access to them anymore.
This proofs nothing. My deposits were moved as well .. in June.
It is just how exchanges handles their wallets. I know for sure that MtGox does the same thing with the deposit addresses. What you see is the the transferring to/from cold storage combined with mixing and other safety measures.

I know that these wallets are different. The deposit address i used will be used to pay withdraws from others and so on. It doesnt look like the bitcoins are collected in another address in the meanwhile.

So if everyone looks at their deposit address and there are still bitcoins or there are no bitcoins anymore then this should say something.

Or will you say the bitcoins are forwarded to different other addresses that ukyo still owns but in a way that one cant tell anymore that its ukyo's address?
member
Activity: 120
Merit: 10
But why is he writing that ukyo cant sign the message to his address? Maybe only strangely written.
He missed a comma.. His issue was quite clear when he explained it on IRC. He is communicating with Ukyo now btw: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.4243367

Will no one check their deposit address at weexchange if its empy or not? We would be a step further when we knew that the bitcoins in weexchange are gone from the addresses there. Then ukyo dont have the bitcoins anymore instead having no access to them anymore.
This proofs nothing. My deposits were moved as well .. in June.
It is just how exchanges handles their wallets. I know for sure that MtGox does the same thing with the deposit addresses. What you see is the the transferring to/from cold storage combined with mixing and other safety measures.
member
Activity: 108
Merit: 10
UKYO: I have some GRATE.LOAN in BF, what shall I do with it ?

Graet.loan is in hands of graet, read here.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitfunder-graetloan-paying-005-interest-daily-218324

It's up to graet to redeem the bonds and pay dvidends.
newbie
Activity: 9
Merit: 0
UKYO: I have some GRATE.LOAN in BF, what shall I do with it ?

He will create a portal for the loans soon.

Ukyo, so, is AM claim portal done? Will you work on ukyo.loan portal now?
des`: just as soon as I am done with fixing the stupid bitcoind for weex claims -_-;

"innovation when you least expect it"
http://www.honkifyoulovejustice.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/13301_portal_now_youre_thinking_with_portals-470x260.jpg
legendary
Activity: 2674
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SebastianJu: You are misunderstanding him. He is talking about claiming his AM shares which has nothing to do with weex.
kirawei's exact problem is that he a while back entered a public bitcoin address on bitfunder which he didn't have the private key to. Now that the claim portal is finally ready, the option to change the public bitcoin address on Bitfunder has been removed. (probably to avoid problems while making the shareholder list for the issuers)

But why is he writing that ukyo cant sign the message to his address? Maybe only strangely written.

Will no one check their deposit address at weexchange if its empy or not? We would be a step further when we knew that the bitcoins in weexchange are gone from the addresses there. Then ukyo dont have the bitcoins anymore instead having no access to them anymore.
member
Activity: 120
Merit: 10
UKYO: I have some GRATE.LOAN in BF, what shall I do with it ?

He will create a portal for the loans soon.

Ukyo, so, is AM claim portal done? Will you work on ukyo.loan portal now?
des`: just as soon as I am done with fixing the stupid bitcoind for weex claims -_-;
newbie
Activity: 40
Merit: 0
UKYO: I have some GRATE.LOAN in BF, what shall I do with it ?
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