Topic: [BitFunder] Moving Forward/Resolution Process - page 62. (Read 292200 times)

The forum participant Pirateat40 was not anonymous at all. His identity and his business relationships were well know by many people not only here, but outside this forum as well.

Notice the date of this post:



I verified that your participation in this forum did not completed one year yet. So you must understand that your speech for many of us, the old participants (which includes our resident troll Crumbs), is nothing new. The same kind of rhetoric you are using to defend Ukyo and Cryptocyprus was used several times by many people to defend Pirateat40.

That said, I am not endorsing the accusations made against Ukyo and Cryptocyprus. However, I must recognize that your effort to liaise in favour of both individuals appears very suspicious to anyone following this case.

By the way, if you want to use the fallacy guilty by association to prove that Cryptocyprus is a trustworthy individual, then I am sure you are doing more harm than good. Cyprus is well know for its corruption:


Read more at: http://www.news.cyprus-property-buyers.com/2012/03/14/vanishing-cyprus-consumerism/id=0011001
Copyright © Cyprus Property News

So, let's rephrase what you wrote, but with added content:

In fact, Danny runs a large start-up, has over 30 people working for his company, deals with several officials in Cyprus (banks, industrialists, politicians and those who had “insider trading connections” made millions from a financial honey trap, while Citizen Joe lost his savings, home and livelihood), meets both businesses and individuals (which has not been prosecuted or held accountable for the biggest financial scandal and fraud on the island) to discuss the neo, and has respectable international legal and accounting cover. Of course it could all be an amazingly elaborate scam but it wouldn't make any logical sense.

Here is my guess and I could be completely wrong...

1) There originally, really was a bitcoind issue.
2) Someone was involved to assist with this issue, either doing something with bitcoind or migrating to a different software.
3) A security hole/weakness was discovered in the (beta) Weex site and a majority of the coins were stolen, causing the withdrawals to fail. (Maybe the vulnerability was something originally negligible because the beta-Weex was ultimately going to be abandoned and a new Weex was going to be built, hence the new Weex site talk and mention.)
4) Since then, (and while we wait in oblivion), Jon had been racing to secure the remaining coins before the security hole could be exploited anymore. This may be the reason for secrecy.
5) Then, Danny became involved to help Jon write new code to facilitate a new secure way to initiate transfers on Weex (2.0) (maybe using some of the same techniques the bank-like Neo-Bee systems use).

* This would explain why "...revealing too much information could result in a decreased chance of getting those coins back..." They may now be finished with the new Weex, but before Monday they need to run the tests and the final "...precaution of making sure the remaining funds don't go missing too!"

I take it back about pirate. I thought he was anon for a while. In that case he was a complete tool! Either way, judge this on the facts of this case and not the last.

In the case of Ukyo people have every right to be angry and dubious, not so with Danny.

Not true at all, people had pirate's name and even knew his past criminal history (the thing about writing bad checks - pirate even acknowledged it was him).


I'm not suggesting it's a scam - I'm suggesting that Ukyo did something criminal with the funds and is now throwing out stalling tactics just like Pirate did.


But I didn't reply to crumbs

Pirate was not anonymous, get your facts straight.
Your attempts to discredit me are getting creepy.

Yeah, but pirate was anonymous. Ukyo is not. More to the point, Danny is not. In fact, Danny runs a large start-up, has over 30 people working for his company, deals with several officials in Cyprus (part of the EU, not some backwater where people can run away), meets both businesses and individuals to discuss the neo, and has respectable international legal and accounting cover. Of course it could all be an amazingly elaborate scam but it wouldn't make any logical sense.

Also, please stop replying to crumbs. He destroys every thread he appears on. He isn't interested in discussion. The moderators have finally stepped in on the ActiveMining thread and warned him (not that it's done any good).

I am making a simple claim -- Danny's liability here is not clear-cut.  I take care to make my posts precise.
If you are suggesting that you have access to facts that i do not, feel free to share them.
I, like you, assume that Danny has consulted his lawyer -- that is the likely "legal reason" he is referring to.

Anyone else remember when Pirate said that people making a stink would be at the end of the queue to get their coins back?  It was right after BrightAnarchist got a bunch of people together to hire a lawyer and see what could be done.  No more than a day or two later Pirate came out with that announcement and the group disappeared instantly.

It's certainly possible that the coins could be seized by law enforcement and Ukyo might not be able to discuss the details there.  He also might have burned through the money in any number of criminal ways and doesn't want to say anything that could be an admission of guilt.

More bullshit.

You have zero facts about what really happened and on what terms he agreed to help. I'm sure that Danny consulted his lawyers and whatever he gets from Ukyo for help, he's agreed to zero responsibility.

Your robbery example is pure bullshit and doesn't apply in this situation at all. You can continue your trolling as long as you want. You can think whatever you want.

I'm saying this to others who think going legally after Danny is a good idea. That will give you nothing, Danny doesn't have to say a single word. There is no contract signed by Danny where he agreed to any liabilities or commited to sharing anything. Such contract doesn't exist.

Possibly, though it's nowhere as clear-cut as you think.
You are robbed, and I tell you "The cops won't get your stuff back.  The guy who robbed you is staying with me, and i'm working on getting your stuff back.  Wait."  At this point, i most certainly have legal liabilities.  Especially if it could be shown that my promise to "work on the problem" affected your decision to report a crime.

Have you seen the written contract between Danny and Ukyo with all the details, liabilities and deadlines? I didn't think so.

Danny has no legal responsibility and has a right to remain silent with zero consequences.

Neo & Bee and don't have any liabilities towards WeExchange users. Nothing at all. Danny also has no legal responsibility and has a right to remain silent with zero consequences. Going after Danny will give you nothing and will just waste your time and money.

Going after Ukyo will help to get the truth but it won't make easier to get the funds back.

Lol! People had respect for me, yay! But yes, he is clever and can be funny. He could do a lot of good if he wasn't such an arse.

Tomy, what on earth makes you think Danny is doing anything without legal advice?!

Danny,
You voluntarily got yourself involved in this situation, for reasons that you have not revealed.  You have met with Ukyo, in person, for a while now, and played a part in his leaving his country while millions of dollars are missing.  You have committed to sharing information and then after a long wait you have shared practically no information.  

I will likely not involve a lawyer because the amount I have at risk is negligible and not worth a lawyer's time, but you are absolutely involved in this and if there is criminal activity then you would have been conspiring with the criminal, concealing criminal information, aiding and abetting.  These involve not just civil, but criminal acts.  

At the very least you need to get legal counsel about what you've gotten yourself into here.  

I can't begin to guess the problems you're going to have as a result of stepping in to this mess and I won't bother to guess as to your motives, how much you know and don't know and what kind of person you are.  But you've gotten yourself involved in secretive acts with the person responsible for $2 million at least that has gone missing and it's pretty clear people aren't getting the missing money back.  How can that have been a wise thing for you, your company or its shareholders?

Hear that falling sound??  Yeah, that's everyones respect for you.  Way to encourage the little guy 

Nice post, lot of text, no content. Nothing we already knew.

Did you realize that Danny stated:


So I'm asking myself, who has control. This is becoming mysterious.

One one hand, maybe Danny is the good guy who wants to help people out of this mess. I don't know. On the other he obviously helped Ukyo to leave the stage and get out of the fireline. We are now facing a guy who can't say what's the matter due to any unknown reasons and has no liability in this issue.

If there are any public authorities involved, why not say, we have a issue with XYZ authority and we are working on a solution. Why should that be forbidden or how should it put coins that "are gone" at further risk?

At the moment, this looks like a waiting game.

+1 although if pyramid schemes were obvious people wouldn't get scammed! I have said the same about tradefortress and yet people still put money in his pot... Then it got stolen and he is still anonymous.

Danny has got in to try and get our money back and was not involved until shortly before he posted. If you can't tell the difference between Neo and pirate or labcoin then you need proper, informed advice from a third party as you're not thinking straight. It doesn't matter what danny gets out of it, if anything, as long as we get a better result than without his involvement.

That's not a criticism of those thinking the worst, it's understandable. I get it, but it's time to move forwards and not by breaking the law yourself. Even making the suggestion of such is putting you in the firing line if something were to happen so I strongly suggest you don't do it.

So hire a lawyer and do things properly rather than sitting on a forum full of people with axes to grind, stirring, or who in your mind could be part of the problem. That doesn't make sense. The solution can only go two ways right now: lawyer or wait a while for Danny to come through.

I posted about the stirring crumbs is doing over in the NEOBEE thread. It's absolutely disgusting and I feel sorry for anyone who is being taken in or stressed out more by that because this is a shocking situation anyway.

What a sad, horrible individual spends his time winding people up who have potentially lost $100,000 dollars, and continually goes for the person who may actually get them back. I didn't know he would stoop this low. That's not trolling, that's inhuman and it's bullying in the most snide way imaginable. I feels sorry for those who don't see it. Crumbs is clever and knows how to push people. He's even happy to piss off and waste the time of the very people trying to get our money back.

For those of you who think he keeps raising good points, well there is really nothing I can say other than you need a lawyer to advise you properly, not an internet troll who thinks you're beneath him and is out for kicks.

Seb - a lawyer won't necessarily get the full story, but a lawyer will be able to speak to danny and will be able to advise you accordingly. Ignore crumbs and his idiotic suggestion that getting a lawyer would be a bad idea. Getting a lawyer is never a bad idea. The action you take once you have a lawyer, that takes more thinking about.

The most important thing if you do engage legal counsel is that they need the public facts, not inferences, and they should speak to Danny. The facts are who said what and when, not what you think those facts mean. Only then can they advise.

I know some people will shout me down for suggesting the actual solution we have to use in the real world, but if you don't know what to do then a lawyer is your answer. If you want to group together to pay then do so. There is a very good lawyer with knowledge of exchanges, securities and the SEC on this very board. Whether appropriate I don't know, but not a bad place to start if you have issues with bitfunder or weexchange.

So be angry with Ukyo for allowing this situation to happen, sure, but not Danny. Even if you are, the solution is still the same. Wait for progress, and no we don't know how long, or get proper legal counsel.

Personally, I'm waiting for Danny's solution because I know long, drawn out legal action would have precious little at the end of it and would be a very long way away. I also doubt its chances of success. But that's just the view from here.

oh boy... I am guessing the computer of ukyo is stolen, and also his backups are stolen.

Always keep backups at different places, always!

I don't know why people are giving you such a hard time. I realize you are only trying to help and I really appreciate it. I guess people are just frustrated and losing their patience and are looking for someone to complain to, especially singe ukyo hasn't spoken publicly in a while.