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Topic: bitHopper: Python Pool Hopper Proxy - page 20. (Read 355813 times)

legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1036
August 20, 2011, 02:28:17 PM
deepbit op thinks we are evil and is working hard to get rid of us

I really dont get this mindset of theft, everyone gets paid exactly for the shares they submit.

For one, most people hopped onto bitcoin because it was profitable and most would leave when it isnt. WE just do that same at the pool level.
Most of them hopper haters would have no problem hopping onto a rival currency when it becomes more profitable.
But somehow they seem to want to think that pool hopping is different and like to call us names.. the pols even said us hoppers were akin to murderers

You have seen the jars of jellybeans where they want you to guess how many are in there. Most people just make a random guess.. some wiser people buy a jar and some jellybeans and try to find out how many it holds. It isnt cheating, he didnt break into the real jar and count the jellybeans, he is just trying to maximise his chances of winning.

Oh i get why they dont like it.. they are lazy and they dont like seeing others make more money than them..

yeah yeah yeah their shares are worth less on the short blocks  and a tad bit more on the long blocks and they want it the other way arround.

But the thing is.,. IF WE STAYED and did not hop.. their shares on the short blocks would be the same.. but their shares on the long blocks would be even less..

eh sorry for the rant, i know their is a thread for this.. I dont see why deepbit cares, we are such a small percent of their total hash, that we really dont effect their users much at all. ANything perceieved is most likely due to luck and not hoppers.

You seem to be the best at these self-denial diatribes, perhaps arguing with yourself to justify your unethical behaviour in pool hopping.

Think of it this way: Imagine there is a bakery that leaves day-old loaves of bread out for the homeless at closing time, and then you start coming by and take all the bread every day. Others in need get none. Then after complaints, the bakery decides to put out the bread at random times so one person doesn't take them all, so then you have someone watch the bakery all the time and still come get the bread when they put it out. Then the bakery stops putting out the bread and makes the homeless come in and ask for their fair share, it seems then you would rant about how the bakery is unethical, you would never shop there, etc. The bakery doesn't want you anyway, you contribute nothing, your complaints are unheard.

Or: The convenience store has a take-a-penny, leave-a-penny tray. You come in three times a day and take all the pennies from the tray. You go around to all the convenience stores and do this. Eventually they put the pennies behind the counter so only the clerk can grab some pennies for you to make nice change. To counter this, you plan your purchases to always need pennies, so you can get the clerk to add pennies to your purchase. Eventually they quit, and nobody has the convenience anymore.

This is what you are doing to bitcoin and pools. The goal of pools is not directly to "solve blocks", and saying that pool hoppers "help solve blocks" is a straw-man argument. A pool is there for bitcoin miners to pool their resources to reduce variability and get more regular payments. Miners do not pool mine to make more or less money, they pool mine to make the same expected amount, but not have to wait months for a payout. Having a bunch of opportunists jump on and saying we "help solve blocks" is merely a convenient and fallacious excuse for stealing the early shares in pool rounds that are compensated more because of the chance of a short round happening, in an otherwise fair payment system for full-time miners. You think your work should be paid more than everybody else's? You think everyone else's earnings should be decreased because the short rounds (that should compensate full-time miners for the long ones they suffer) are exploited? It is fair to hit the bandwidth of a dozen pool's web pages every minute and open a bunch of TCP sockets, causing pool ops to need hardware upgrades and spend time with mitigation measures? You think pools want more variability - shorter short rounds and longer long rounds? That is an antisocial narcissistic notion.

Pool hoppers do decrease the earnings of everyone else in pools, and on bitcoin as a whole. Hoppers aren't adding more hashrate to bitcoin, they are just strategically moving around their share submissions to be compensated more for the same amount of work, more than others. This leaves less earnings for others on a pool, and less earnings for all bitcoin users. Legitimate pool miners have less time to submit shares in short rounds, and then they have to split those earnings with more people.

It is game on, pools that still prefer the proportional payment method should do whatever in their power makes their pool mining experience a positive one, including not having egocentrists degrade a fair rewards system and network stability.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
moOo
August 20, 2011, 01:20:57 PM
deepbit op thinks we are evil and is working hard to get rid of us

I really dont get this mindset of theft, everyone gets paid exactly for the shares they submit.

For one, most people hopped onto bitcoin because it was profitable and most would leave when it isnt. WE just do that same at the pool level.
Most of them hopper haters would have no problem hopping onto a rival currency when it becomes more profitable.
But somehow they seem to want to think that pool hopping is different and like to call us names.. the pols even said us hoppers were akin to murderers

You have seen the jars of jellybeans where they want you to guess how many are in there. Most people just make a random guess.. some wiser people buy a jar and some jellybeans and try to find out how many it holds. It isnt cheating, he didnt break into the real jar and count the jellybeans, he is just trying to maximise his chances of winning.

Oh i get why they dont like it.. they are lazy and they dont like seeing others make more money than them..

yeah yeah yeah their shares are worth less on the short blocks  and a tad bit more on the long blocks and they want it the other way arround.

But the thing is.,. IF WE STAYED and did not hop.. their shares on the short blocks would be the same.. but their shares on the long blocks would be even less..

eh sorry for the rant, i know their is a thread for this.. I dont see why deepbit cares, we are such a small percent of their total hash, that we really dont effect their users much at all. ANything perceieved is most likely due to luck and not hoppers.
newbie
Activity: 23
Merit: 0
August 20, 2011, 08:24:11 AM
c00w,

Please check netstat/tcpdump for persistent connections. Connections are not being reused at all. It's not the problem of if there are lots/few miners. OldConnectionSystem helps, but actually reusing connections would be great. Twisted-11.0.0.
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
August 20, 2011, 06:37:39 AM
Been messing around with git a bit now and I'm just blown away, its way more powerful than I could ever had imagined.
describe was for version-format I was looking for, it's tag"-"CommitsSinceTag I figure. archive command is just amazing.

I think will start using git on everything I code, mostly bash-scripts though. Will save tons of time from going over multiple version-copies etc.
I've been doing things like they were done back in the stone-age it seems Embarrassed
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
August 20, 2011, 05:57:09 AM
Suddenly getting constant:

Error in pool api for deepbit

Tried but could not fix it with my limited skills.  Anybody got any ideas?

look here, should give you a clue Tongue

Σας ευχαριστώ κ. Paraipanakos.

Was looking for a fix in GitHub c00w / bitHopper.  Did not know about paraipanakos / bitHopper.

hehe Καλώς Ορίσατε MrWizard, I'm Spanish and the nick thing is long story, I would surely like to learn Greek.  paraipanakos / bitHopper is only my fork until it gets merged in the c00w's master
LOL.  Well I guess I'm turning into my father.  I assumed that if you have a name that sounds remotely Greek, that you are Greek.  Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 924
Merit: 1004
Firstbits: 1pirata
August 20, 2011, 05:51:30 AM
Suddenly getting constant:

Error in pool api for deepbit

Tried but could not fix it with my limited skills.  Anybody got any ideas?

look here, should give you a clue Tongue

Σας ευχαριστώ κ. Paraipanakos.

Was looking for a fix in GitHub c00w / bitHopper.  Did not know about paraipanakos / bitHopper.

hehe Καλώς Ορίσατε MrWizard, I'm Spanish and the nick thing is long story, I would surely like to learn Greek.  paraipanakos / bitHopper is only my fork until it gets merged in the c00w's master
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
August 20, 2011, 05:46:42 AM
Suddenly getting constant:

Error in pool api for deepbit

Tried but could not fix it with my limited skills.  Anybody got any ideas?

look here, should give you a clue Tongue

Σας ευχαριστώ κ. Paraipanakos.

Was looking for a fix in GitHub c00w / bitHopper.  Did not know about paraipanakos / bitHopper.
legendary
Activity: 966
Merit: 1004
Keep it real
August 20, 2011, 05:32:33 AM
Suddenly getting constant:

Error in pool api for deepbit

Tried but could not fix it with my limited skills.  Anybody got any ideas?

look here, should give you a clue Tongue

I'd been trying to figure it out for myself and was about to post on the forums.... but good call on the quick fix.  I didn't think to check the page source to make sure nothing had changed.
legendary
Activity: 924
Merit: 1004
Firstbits: 1pirata
August 20, 2011, 05:25:10 AM
Suddenly getting constant:

Error in pool api for deepbit

Tried but could not fix it with my limited skills.  Anybody got any ideas?

look here, should give you a clue Tongue
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
August 20, 2011, 05:00:51 AM
Suddenly getting constant:

Error in pool api for deepbit

Tried but could not fix it with my limited skills.  Anybody got any ideas?
legendary
Activity: 924
Merit: 1004
Firstbits: 1pirata
August 20, 2011, 04:45:56 AM
^ same problem here, and "user shares" keep showing 0... i try with: 0.2.1-21/24/25/26, same errors with those

went back to 0.2.1-13
Two questions:
1) How do you check which version one have in that format(0.2.1-x)?
2) I'm no git guru, is it possible to download to a specific commit and have it stop there, since you seem to have lots of versions? (my git knowledge go as far as clone and pull)

pls have patience ppl, the bleeding edge got a little off because c00w was rearranging lots of code, continue reporting the errors and try using  
Code:
--debug > error.log
param. to really help debugging faster. Thanks

@cirz8  you could try "git help" or "git pull help" to view how to pull specific versions

@r2edu it's tough I know but we're testing and using it at the same time, when using the newest ver. try saving a log if it gives you troubles Wink
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
August 20, 2011, 03:51:15 AM
^ same problem here, and "user shares" keep showing 0... i try with: 0.2.1-21/24/25/26, same errors with those

went back to 0.2.1-13
Two questions:
1) How do you check which version one have in that format(0.2.1-x)?
2) I'm no git guru, is it possible to download to a specific commit and have it stop there, since you seem to have lots of versions? (my git knowledge go as far as clone and pull)
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
moOo
August 19, 2011, 10:38:31 PM
Unfortunately, you should only do that if you really want to hurt the pool. Assuming it uses the same rounds for both proportional and PPS it will receive less than it pays you for the shares when the block is finally solved. The PPS part only averages out right for the pool owner when the PPS users put at least the same hashing power in short rounds as in long.

But if they put less effort, then there is less shares to pay for. To hurt PPS pool you would actually need to not submit the winning shares.

I agree with Grinder. Hopping prop and pps at the same pool at opposite ends of the round is a double whammy. We all know that hopping early on prop is no disadvantage to a pool but does disadvantage it's full time miners. However, any time you submit shares on pps at total shares > 1*difficulty, you are getting more for the pps share than it's worth, which disadvantages the pool.

I'm not sure why the pool ops are ok with that. I'm probably missing something.
no that makes sense, they probably dont realize it, that's all. When I asked the mtred admin he seemed interested that we would come back and help finish off a large block, thought his users would like that. This might be worth something to some people, to go ahead and get passed a long block and get back to more profitable times. But worth more to miners than a pool op. For the most part normal pool hopping doesnt hurt the op and can help (if we donate or they have fees), and just hurts the users, maybe this is some share the pain. and small pools do benefit by keeping us longer so they can advert a higher hash rate. Last the pay 7% less than arsbitcoin, so perhaps he has worked out about how much we might cost them. 7% for the rare times I am on backup might not be too bad for him. Might even be a bonus.

but i suspect, he just didnt think about it at the time, and only listened to my words. I did ask though, I was concerned as mtred requires you to have a totally different account. not only would it be a dead giveaway, but mtred has been cool with us thus far, so I owed him to ask.  Perhaps I will bring it up again, because it is strickly hurting the op. 
member
Activity: 68
Merit: 10
August 19, 2011, 08:27:22 PM
^ same problem here, and "user shares" keep showing 0... i try with: 0.2.1-21/24/25/26, same errors with those

went back to 0.2.1-13
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
August 19, 2011, 07:42:02 PM
altslicer is broken, when there are no pools with 43% or lower one gets this message
Code:
[scheduler-altslice] Re-Slicing...
No servers to slice, picking a backup...
But instead of going live with a backup pool it takes a normal pool with the lowest share, even if it has way over 43%

Version: 98b7557
Command line: --scheduler=AltSliceScheduler --altslicesize=180 --p2pLP
donator
Activity: 2058
Merit: 1007
Poor impulse control.
August 19, 2011, 06:58:07 PM
Unfortunately, you should only do that if you really want to hurt the pool. Assuming it uses the same rounds for both proportional and PPS it will receive less than it pays you for the shares when the block is finally solved. The PPS part only averages out right for the pool owner when the PPS users put at least the same hashing power in short rounds as in long.

But if they put less effort, then there is less shares to pay for. To hurt PPS pool you would actually need to not submit the winning shares.

I agree with Grinder. Hopping prop and pps at the same pool at opposite ends of the round is a double whammy. We all know that hopping early on prop is no disadvantage to a pool but does disadvantage it's full time miners. However, any time you submit shares on pps at total shares > 1*difficulty, you are getting more for the pps share than it's worth, which disadvantages the pool.

I'm not sure why the pool ops are ok with that. I'm probably missing something.
newbie
Activity: 39
Merit: 0
August 19, 2011, 06:27:24 PM
Unfortunately, you should only do that if you really want to hurt the pool. Assuming it uses the same rounds for both proportional and PPS it will receive less than it pays you for the shares when the block is finally solved. The PPS part only averages out right for the pool owner when the PPS users put at least the same hashing power in short rounds as in long.

But if they put less effort, then there is less shares to pay for. To hurt PPS pool you would actually need to not submit the winning shares.
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
August 19, 2011, 05:13:54 PM
Edit... something wrong.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
moOo
August 19, 2011, 05:04:15 PM
i actually asked the pool ops first, they had no problem with it. I didnt ask deepbit op but i dont use them for backup.
legendary
Activity: 1284
Merit: 1001
August 19, 2011, 04:49:13 PM
I use bcpool24 and mtred pps as backup and jump to the one with the most shares... So I am not always there, but I do help on the long blocks.
Unfortunately, you should only do that if you really want to hurt the pool. Assuming it uses the same rounds for both proportional and PPS it will receive less than it pays you for the shares when the block is finally solved. The PPS part only averages out right for the pool owner when the PPS users put at least the same hashing power in short rounds as in long.
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