Topic: Bitmain Introduces the S17+ and T17+ - page 4. (Read 3399 times)

Quite a few words you got to say.

How about this...

You make me a better and more efficient miner and I'll buy from you instead of Bitmain.

Good idea?

Found via Artemis3’s excellent response:

Artemis3 said everything that I usually would have, plus more; and the discussion thus got me thinking about Bitmain.  What is their strategy, on a deeper level?

Well, let’s talk business.  Most people on this forum know me for being suicidally principled; but I do understand business, in a purely pragmatic sense.  And, “business is business.”  Mining is a for-profit activity; miners obviously don’t want to shoot themselves in the foot financially with poor business decisions based only on idealism.  Of course, one of Bitcoin’s finest qualities is how effectively it aligns self-interest incentives with the greater good of Bitcoin; and if Doing The Right Thing makes business sense, then you must be incredibly stupid to do otherwise.

My flash of insight here:  When you buy from Bitmain, you are funding a hostile competitor.  Not only as a miner, but as an investor in Bitcoin.  Moreover, you are incurring a dependency of your business on a hostile competitor.  All of this is sheer idiocy, from a perspective of “strictly business”.

---

I observe that Bitmain attacked Bitcoin’s uniqueness.  Anyone who has studied the nature of money should know how detrimental an attack on uniqueness is, without further explanation.  Moreover, Bitmain are not only willing, but overly eager to make ASIC miners for altcoins—even for altcoins that deliberately attempt ASIC-resistance.  I followed the Zcash backpedalling on their ASIC-resistance promise, and Monero’s repeated hardforking of their proof-of-work algorithm while they developed RandomX (and if there were one altcoin feature that I could steal for Bitcoin, it would be RandomX—yes, I know why that will probably never happen; don’t bother explaining).  Bitmain has invested serious resources on all fronts to make a giant, undifferentiated market of lots of coins, in which all coins are just coins mined by Bitmain.

Bitmain is not only an ASIC maker:  They are an ASIC-maker whose self-evident strategy is to proliferate the market for mining hardware in every way they can, no matter how that may damage the market in other ways.  They don’t want for any particular coin to be uniquely valuable:  They want a general market of cryptocurrencies where one is pretty much the same as another, and no matter which one you choose, you will buy a Bitmain miner for it.  Meanwhile, they themselves can mine them all, and dump them all—it’s all the same to them.

At this juncture, I recall a vintage Joel on Software strategy letter:


As a Bitcoin idealist, I understand that many people couldn’t care less about Bitcoin principles.

As a HODLer who gets hit in the wallet by the destructive market effects of fork-attacks against Bitcoin, I do not understand why many other people don’t seem to care about the value of their own money.  Please.  Be more selfish.  It’s good for Bitcoin, and good for you.

Full disclosure:  I have a personally significant financial interest in Bitcoin.  I have skin in the game, and Bitmain’s strategy is thus adverse to me, me, me.  A considerable part of my enmity for Bitmain is driven by pure self-interest.  You see how that works?

I may just order one too - well two maybe but on separate orders - I am hoping that they dont include shipping in the calculation for the tariff...

Edit:

I ordered one T17+ and it is supposed to ship next week. lets see if I actually get it before halving and if they rape me with tariff - technically purchase is under 800 the damn shipping should not be counted but it isnt always the case and sometimes they charge for it. So I shall soon see.

do you mean the little short ones in the psu itself?

they may be 40mm  they whale like 10000 rpm



the ones below do the hashboards

https://shop.bitmain.com/product/detail?pid=000201910151107519921qKMCqzJ06A8


BTW I ordered  a second t17+

I hope it is better then the first one.

for the s17+ what size are the fans/ventilators on the psu? and cfm?

if you or anyone else for that matter have coupons to sell, do let me know  .

anyway in regards to S17+, there is this topic "T17/S17 malfunction: cases, solutions, remedies, RMA history", for those who are interested in reviews/issues on the S17+, you can follow this:



I will post updates as they come.

Surely you jest! But being Bitmain and evil and all I am unsure.

(Bitmain: Being Evil Is A Lifestyle, deal with it!) (tm: Bitmain)

only if btc hits 10k so it says, though btc has hit 10k once already while I have had it and it is still there.

My last coupon has no time limit, but expires if BTC hits $20K for 3 consecutive days.

I'm keeping it for a while

Those that did not expire in January, are either no limit or when BTC hits $10k.

When does it expire?

Haven't seen it... Would've contacted you.

i still have 1 for 150 no percent limit, just that it needs to be over $500

I sold a few maybe four or five.

That's funny because I was selling my coupons twice in that period and my posts stayed there for days.

Well, the demand does not mean the price is realistic. I was personally searching for coupons 2 weeks prior to expiry all the way to last day since that is when they are cheapest.

Well, Corona is actually hitting China pretty hard, that might be one of the reasons that they are slowing down. I have friends as well as business partners in China which are all not working until 7th of February (or further, depending on notice from government).

This is not true, they don't. In fact, many times people gave them out for free, I myself gave a couple of hundreds of them away for free because nobody was buying them, I even had a dozen expired on me because nobody wanted them even for free.

What's even worse now is the 10% rule, those coupons had no rules and nobody wanted them, it doesn't end here, the options on Bitmian's English website were limited to S9e, S9k, T17+ and S17+, all to be delivered on March except the S9s.

I know the coupon game inside out, and I am telling you, this time was different, I don't know what happened, I just know that it was different and someone might know something we all don't. If the production keeps slowing down and delivery stays this far ( nearly two months) then we know that someone figured that much out before it happened, and pretty soon all those gears will hit the Chinese market to be sold for premium outside of bitmain's territory.

Demand for coupons spiked because there was like 80% of all coupons expiring at 31.01.2020. and I think they usually spike like that during a few days before expiry. However, this is the first time that there was so small amount of coupons, previous years, there was much more of supply than demand for coupons and that is why this spike was very noticeable.

I may buy some used s9 units.

or stick with what I have for a while.

Correct, but not just that, it is 20-30 days longer  .

Something is going on, I noticed that in the last couple days of the previous month, the demand for coupons increased in such a way I have never seen before, someone "probably a Chinese" was collecting every single coupon they could get their hands on, that was a very unusual move, because usually when the coupons are about to expire the demand becomes really low, this time things were the exact opposite.

Someone/Some people know something we all don't, and they were buying every coupon and miner they can would get, it's like they know bitmain is having a production slow-down or whatever.

The current market prices in China for the new 17 series as follows.

T17+ 58Th = 1300$
S17+ 70Th = 2000$
S17+ 73Th = 2150$
S17 pro 53th = 1800$

And those don't even ship now, shipping starts after the New Year so around mid-Feb.

it's one of those times when the resellers are controlling the market due to lack of supply from Bitmain, such situations usually last for a while but then end terribly bad for the resellers when/if bitmain drop prices and restock a huge amount of everything.