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Topic: BITMAIN launches 4th generation Bitcoin mining ASIC: BM1385 - page 13. (Read 39295 times)

donator
Activity: 1120
Merit: 1001
Did you buy your used A2 for the same or more than the guy who sold it to you bought it new? The point is not that selling hardware secondhand is in general a bad thing - by no means am I saying that.
The point is selling hardware secondhand for more than it is likely actually worth in order to recoup your investment is a bad thing - which is to say, "making about 1/2 or so back on your money and you sell them used for just about the price you paid for them new" (if not more).

Unless something atypical like flat diff is happening (which can't be counted on enough to "rinse and repeat") and the viability of the machine is actually retained during that time, selling it for near new price after several months means ripping someone off. You get your "ROI" by effectively stealing it from someone else. That's exactly what's happening with Bitmain selling used S5 for the same or more than they sold them new several months ago. If the diff had gone up more than about 10% in the last six months (like the 50-100% that would have been expected had the trends of the previous two years kept steady), nobody in their right mind would be buying S5 for the same money they paid at Christmas.

I feel the argument should be well-qualified enough to require no further defense, and as it's pretty off-topic at this point, I'll say nothing further on the subject. How 'bout them BM1385 chips, eh?

That's an oversimplified argument. The price is mostly based on the EXPECTATION of revenue, which could be influenced by a lot of factors, such as buyer's power costs vs seller's power costs etc. If the buyer can extract more use out of that hardware than alienesb - more power to him/her, pun intended.

Them chips are great with salsa.

Seriously though, I'd be more interested in the specs of an actual S7. This pre-announcement sounds like an attempt to preempt something and is quite useless for an end user like myself.

Yes, the power cost can be a great influence. Sometimes a zero worth of junk miner for you, is something that can generate very good cash flow , and is money printing machines. So selling the used miners at the right timing and to the right buyer is a kind of art.
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1000
But when will have an actionable 10th miner?!?!?!?!
sr. member
Activity: 321
Merit: 250
When is the price going to be released?
legendary
Activity: 3654
Merit: 8909
https://bpip.org
Did you buy your used A2 for the same or more than the guy who sold it to you bought it new? The point is not that selling hardware secondhand is in general a bad thing - by no means am I saying that.
The point is selling hardware secondhand for more than it is likely actually worth in order to recoup your investment is a bad thing - which is to say, "making about 1/2 or so back on your money and you sell them used for just about the price you paid for them new" (if not more).

Unless something atypical like flat diff is happening (which can't be counted on enough to "rinse and repeat") and the viability of the machine is actually retained during that time, selling it for near new price after several months means ripping someone off. You get your "ROI" by effectively stealing it from someone else. That's exactly what's happening with Bitmain selling used S5 for the same or more than they sold them new several months ago. If the diff had gone up more than about 10% in the last six months (like the 50-100% that would have been expected had the trends of the previous two years kept steady), nobody in their right mind would be buying S5 for the same money they paid at Christmas.

I feel the argument should be well-qualified enough to require no further defense, and as it's pretty off-topic at this point, I'll say nothing further on the subject. How 'bout them BM1385 chips, eh?

That's an oversimplified argument. The price is mostly based on the EXPECTATION of revenue, which could be influenced by a lot of factors, such as buyer's power costs vs seller's power costs etc. If the buyer can extract more use out of that hardware than alienesb - more power to him/her, pun intended.

Them chips are great with salsa.

Seriously though, I'd be more interested in the specs of an actual S7. This pre-announcement sounds like an attempt to preempt something and is quite useless for an end user like myself.
legendary
Activity: 3374
Merit: 1859
Curmudgeonly hardware guy
Did you buy your used A2 for the same or more than the guy who sold it to you bought it new? The point is not that selling hardware secondhand is in general a bad thing - by no means am I saying that.
The point is selling hardware secondhand for more than it is likely actually worth in order to recoup your investment is a bad thing - which is to say, "making about 1/2 or so back on your money and you sell them used for just about the price you paid for them new" (if not more).

Unless something atypical like flat diff is happening (which can't be counted on enough to "rinse and repeat") and the viability of the machine is actually retained during that time, selling it for near new price after several months means ripping someone off. You get your "ROI" by effectively stealing it from someone else. That's exactly what's happening with Bitmain selling used S5 for the same or more than they sold them new several months ago. If the diff had gone up more than about 10% in the last six months (like the 50-100% that would have been expected had the trends of the previous two years kept steady), nobody in their right mind would be buying S5 for the same money they paid at Christmas.

I feel the argument should be well-qualified enough to require no further defense, and as it's pretty off-topic at this point, I'll say nothing further on the subject. How 'bout them BM1385 chips, eh?
legendary
Activity: 3654
Merit: 8909
https://bpip.org
Some of you guys are funny with your talk of "roi." Here's how it's supposed to be done... you buy the newest miners you can, you run them for a few months making about 1/2 or so back on your money and you sell them used for just about the price you paid for them new (in the case of S5s even more money!) That's how you "roi." Rinse and repeat.

Might as well mine altcoins with it while you're at it, that way you guarantee that all the money you make (instead of only half) comes from ripping people off.

Whoa, how is selling something at a market price "ripping people off"? I've bought tons of used stuff including miners, never felt ripped off if the item came as advertised at a mutually agreed upon price. Now Bitmain selling dusty smelly miners as "new" is a different story...

How is what he's describing not exactly the same as Bitmain, with the exception that Bitmain still calls it "new" hardware instead of "used"? Depreciating the crap out of something and then selling it for new price almost guarantees someone gets screwed. If you can actually pull it off either something weird's going on (like this year's flat diff) or the purchaser is an idiot.

Not only flat diff but also Bitcoin exchange rate created a lot of weird price fluctuations over the last 9-12 months.

Selling used as "new" - bad. Selling used as "used" between two mutually consenting adults - perfectly fine. It's not like it's some kind of a black market drug trade. Anyone can google up whether they are getting ripped off or not.
sr. member
Activity: 254
Merit: 1258
“We anticipate that before we release our full-custom 16 nanometer chip, the BM1385 will continue to be the industry standard for the bitcoin mining industry,” said Bitmain co-founder Wu Jihan. “We will continue to strive for more efficiency and lower costs for our customers.”

and the S7 IS NOT THE 16nm full customized chip so I am still going to wait.


They aren't going to cannibalize their own products, unless another company pushes 16nm they will wait to release it until this cycle has sold a ton of units.
legendary
Activity: 4256
Merit: 8551
'The right to privacy matters'
Some of you guys are funny with your talk of "roi." Here's how it's supposed to be done... you buy the newest miners you can, you run them for a few months making about 1/2 or so back on your money and you sell them used for just about the price you paid for them new (in the case of S5s even more money!) That's how you "roi." Rinse and repeat.

Might as well mine altcoins with it while you're at it, that way you guarantee that all the money you make (instead of only half) comes from ripping people off.

Whoa, how is selling something at a market price "ripping people off"? I've bought tons of used stuff including miners, never felt ripped off if the item came as advertised at a mutually agreed upon price. Now Bitmain selling dusty smelly miners as "new" is a different story...

How is what he's describing not exactly the same as Bitmain, with the exception that Bitmain still calls it "new" hardware instead of "used"? Depreciating the crap out of something and then selling it for new price almost guarantees someone gets screwed. If you can actually pull it off either something weird's going on (like this year's flat diff) or the purchaser is an idiot.

That's silly, there is still plenty of life left in the miner and it's a way to transfer risk. I'd never sell them as new and everyone knows what they are getting into. I have an a2 I bought used and have been running it since November; I don't feel ripped off and why should I? Is it wrong to generate some income now? Should we all just hold?

We little guys did not make flat diff happen.

Although I did write a long detailed thread about asic/builders freezing diff to ensure profit. So maybe they use my idea.

Not sure if is so bad or good.
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
Some of you guys are funny with your talk of "roi." Here's how it's supposed to be done... you buy the newest miners you can, you run them for a few months making about 1/2 or so back on your money and you sell them used for just about the price you paid for them new (in the case of S5s even more money!) That's how you "roi." Rinse and repeat.

Might as well mine altcoins with it while you're at it, that way you guarantee that all the money you make (instead of only half) comes from ripping people off.

Whoa, how is selling something at a market price "ripping people off"? I've bought tons of used stuff including miners, never felt ripped off if the item came as advertised at a mutually agreed upon price. Now Bitmain selling dusty smelly miners as "new" is a different story...

How is what he's describing not exactly the same as Bitmain, with the exception that Bitmain still calls it "new" hardware instead of "used"? Depreciating the crap out of something and then selling it for new price almost guarantees someone gets screwed. If you can actually pull it off either something weird's going on (like this year's flat diff) or the purchaser is an idiot.

That's silly, there is still plenty of life left in the miner and it's a way to transfer risk. I'd never sell them as new and everyone knows what they are getting into. I have an a2 I bought used and have been running it since November; I don't feel ripped off and why should I? Is it wrong to generate some income now? Should we all just hold?
sr. member
Activity: 254
Merit: 1258
considering BitFury already has FULL CUSTOM at 28 nm at 0.2 and ALREADY taped out at 0.05 with TSMC - I wish BITMAIN lots of luck. I also wish BITMAIN customers stength and hope they will ever see the return on investment.

It rather feels like a urban legend, lol.
I would say it leans on that side for sure, in this industry it is put up or shut up. We have heard fancy numbers since day one of the forum and been burnt a lot.
legendary
Activity: 3374
Merit: 1859
Curmudgeonly hardware guy
Some of you guys are funny with your talk of "roi." Here's how it's supposed to be done... you buy the newest miners you can, you run them for a few months making about 1/2 or so back on your money and you sell them used for just about the price you paid for them new (in the case of S5s even more money!) That's how you "roi." Rinse and repeat.

Might as well mine altcoins with it while you're at it, that way you guarantee that all the money you make (instead of only half) comes from ripping people off.

Whoa, how is selling something at a market price "ripping people off"? I've bought tons of used stuff including miners, never felt ripped off if the item came as advertised at a mutually agreed upon price. Now Bitmain selling dusty smelly miners as "new" is a different story...

How is what he's describing not exactly the same as Bitmain, with the exception that Bitmain still calls it "new" hardware instead of "used"? Depreciating the crap out of something and then selling it for new price almost guarantees someone gets screwed. If you can actually pull it off either something weird's going on (like this year's flat diff) or the purchaser is an idiot.
legendary
Activity: 4256
Merit: 8551
'The right to privacy matters'
PACMIC v4 will be interesting.

Maybe v3 is based on the new chip... it would make sense with the 666 pricing and the .66V of the new chip.

No, PACMIC v3 mines with the S5.

I would be interested in learning more about PacMIC from those who have tried it out.



I have 15th in PacMIC v3  my cost was 9.99 btc  If it all works and nothing goes wrong I will see about 10.25 to 10.40 btc  a profit of .26 to .40 on 9.99 btc
do I think you should buy 9.99 btc = 15th ? no  you should buy what you can afford to lose. you should buy 3 times one day apart if you do decide to buy.

I purchase 13 contracts over 6 days time. they add to 9.99 btc 15th I have been paid back about .68 btc as of the screen shot below


legendary
Activity: 3654
Merit: 8909
https://bpip.org
Some of you guys are funny with your talk of "roi." Here's how it's supposed to be done... you buy the newest miners you can, you run them for a few months making about 1/2 or so back on your money and you sell them used for just about the price you paid for them new (in the case of S5s even more money!) That's how you "roi." Rinse and repeat.

Might as well mine altcoins with it while you're at it, that way you guarantee that all the money you make (instead of only half) comes from ripping people off.

Whoa, how is selling something at a market price "ripping people off"? I've bought tons of used stuff including miners, never felt ripped off if the item came as advertised at a mutually agreed upon price. Now Bitmain selling dusty smelly miners as "new" is a different story...
legendary
Activity: 3374
Merit: 1859
Curmudgeonly hardware guy
Some of you guys are funny with your talk of "roi." Here's how it's supposed to be done... you buy the newest miners you can, you run them for a few months making about 1/2 or so back on your money and you sell them used for just about the price you paid for them new (in the case of S5s even more money!) That's how you "roi." Rinse and repeat.

Might as well mine altcoins with it while you're at it, that way you guarantee that all the money you make (instead of only half) comes from ripping people off.
legendary
Activity: 3654
Merit: 8909
https://bpip.org
PACMIC v4 will be interesting.

Maybe v3 is based on the new chip... it would make sense with the 666 pricing and the .66V of the new chip.

No, PACMIC v3 mines with the S5.

I would be interested in learning more about PacMIC from those who have tried it out.


It's a low interest loan to Bitmain, with the added risk (albeit small) of a loss in case the S5 becomes unprofitable. There is nothing interesting about it.
sr. member
Activity: 316
Merit: 250
PACMIC v4 will be interesting.

Maybe v3 is based on the new chip... it would make sense with the 666 pricing and the .66V of the new chip.

No, PACMIC v3 mines with the S5.

I would be interested in learning more about PacMIC from those who have tried it out.

hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
Some of you guys are funny with your talk of "roi." Here's how it's supposed to be done... you buy the newest miners you can, you run them for a few months making about 1/2 or so back on your money and you sell them used for just about the price you paid for them new (in the case of S5s even more money!) That's how you "roi." Rinse and repeat.
member
Activity: 170
Merit: 10
Congrats on the efficiency at 28nm!

Any chance you can use fans that don't double as jet engines on the S7?  Because I'd love to fill my apartment with these, and that just wasn't possible with the S5.  Any chance of a return to the airflow and chassis of the S1/S3?

legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1007
Nice achievement! Grats.

Edit: Nice reference towards 21e6 Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1000
So I guess people in Europe or other places with high KWH prices will be able to jump back into mining I guess.



I don't know if this is true a lot will upgrade to new efficient gear eventually.  So you would still compete with others with same disadvantage of high electricity prices.

What will happen is old gear gets sold to miners in cheaper electricity areas.  So most stay's on network.    I would be surprised if even a new chip allows high electrical places to ROI.  But I hope I'm wrong on that.
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