BitMarket.Eu has closed down - page 34.

paraipan

legendary

Activity: 924

Merit: 1004

Firstbits: 1pirata

Quote from: enlightened on December 23, 2012, 07:28:00 AM

...
The market has no conscience. What about people "the market" has no use for because they're ill or diabled? Shall they starve?
...

"Don't ask questions you don't want to know the answer to" - MIB 3

enlightened

sr. member

Activity: 644

Merit: 250

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: enlightened on December 23, 2012, 07:28:00 AM

please stop being judge over morality or immorality.

I didn't call anyone immoral. This is my opinion, fullstop. Apparently contrary to you I'm able to accept others think differently.

morda

member

Activity: 77

Merit: 10

Quote from: M4v3R on December 21, 2012, 01:31:02 PM

Quote from: sarpar on December 21, 2012, 12:24:29 PM

Did you claim your loss in the liquidation process? If so we should be able to find you on the list of creditors. Soon including the exact amount.

Yes, I've sent the claim a while ago.

Quote from: disclaimer201

Best to take down the side and stop all trades asap, or freeze all trades or whatever - have a message up with link to the forum, email all customers and see if people are want Bitmarket to open again in a few days or weeks.

There is a message on the site - once you log in it really stands out and points to this forums thread. I've also halted all trading, so no one will sell Bitcoins he can't withdraw. Trying to make an offer will also take you to this thread.

even though i lost money because of your site, i will admit that it was good and effective and with time you will get your reputation back if you do things right from now on

what sort of investment do you need?

enlightened

sr. member

Activity: 644

Merit: 250

@MPOE-PR:
Capitalism without restraint is as inhuman as communism.
The market has no conscience. What about people "the market" has no use for because they're ill or diabled? Shall they starve?
There has to be a social balance which can only be achieved through taxation of high incomes.
And please stop being judge over morality or immorality. Stop calling others liars or thieves. You are not right nor are the others right. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion of which none is better than the other. Do you really think you are the one who knows the ultimate truth on a subject that has been being discussed over for the last 100 years with great intellectuals on both sides?

But on-topic again:
I my opinion all this is not a problem of Bitcoin but could have happened with any currency. I just hope the idea of enhancing the site with better features will work out. Through has (yet late) honesty some people might trust him again. And some of those who still have frozen coins probably want the site to be successful again and are going to use it anyway.

amano

newbie

Activity: 25

Merit: 0

Quote from: MPOE-PR on December 23, 2012, 03:48:25 AM

The missing sense of morality is wholly on the part of scum that promise other scum distributions of other people's money.

Nope, the missing sence of morality is greed: some folks just have no limit, never have enough.
It'l like Boulimia nervosa, but with money. In my book, these people are sick, suffer from a psychological disorder, and should be treated, not praised.

Quote from: MPOE-PR on December 23, 2012, 03:48:25 AM

It's not your money, it's his money.

True, can't argue with that. But again, still dodging taxes? When will he have enough ?

Quote from: MPOE-PR on December 23, 2012, 03:48:25 AM

It makes no difference what your socialist liar told you. You personally, and the socialist you voted for are immoral.

Nobody told me nothing, I make up my own mind. And I do not vote for socialists.

Quote from: MPOE-PR on December 23, 2012, 03:48:25 AM

Arnault is simply the victim of your out of control cupidity. That you'd have the gall to claim the opposite is exactly in line with what we'd expect from scum, the thief that yells "thief!" and all that.

Nope, Arnauld is the victim of his psychological disorder. He, and all the others he's scammed out of their money, all victims of his disease ..

Quote from: MPOE-PR on December 23, 2012, 03:48:25 AM

Quote from: disclaimer201 on December 22, 2012, 05:39:05 PM

The market is all there is left. Why is that?

The market, Scarlet. The market is the only thing that matters, the only thing that lasts....

Bull. The market doesn't matter, humans matter, the market seems to have forgotten that.
Why? Greed ...

MPOE-PR

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 522

Quote from: amano on December 22, 2012, 11:36:19 AM

One of the richest guys in Europe, Bernard Arnault, is about to be charged with tax fraud, for setting up mailbox companies in Belgium to avoid taxes in France. Ok this is a bit off topic, but stuff like that seriously pisses me off. No sense of morality whatsoever.

The missing sense of morality is wholly on the part of scum that promise other scum distributions of other people's money.

It's not your money, it's his money. It makes no difference what your socialist liar told you. You personally, and the socialist you voted for are immoral. Arnault is simply the victim of your out of control cupidity. That you'd have the gall to claim the opposite is exactly in line with what we'd expect from scum, the thief that yells "thief!" and all that.

Quote from: disclaimer201 on December 22, 2012, 05:39:05 PM

The market is all there is left. Why is that?

The market, Scarlet. The market is the only thing that matters, the only thing that lasts....

disclaimer201

legendary

Activity: 1526

Merit: 1001

Quote from: freeAgent on December 22, 2012, 11:12:43 AM

This is yet another ridiculous episode in Bitcoin history. Customer funds are supposed to be segregated. This is a law everywhere I know of for a good reason: because shit like this can and will happen. My biggest problem with the whole Bitcoin system right now is that it's full of scammers, amateur "entrepreneurs" pulling shit like this, and people who generally let greed get in the way of common sense and morality.

That's what I had in mind. I hardly know of any business in the bitcoin world that isn't a giant heap of a Scamshit. Pretending that it's always corrupted individuals, however doesn't address the problem sufficiently either. Maybe in 2011 you could think so. I wouldn't even talk about a community here, because that implies it's anything else than a wolf cave. Since all the crap in B(TC)S-world seems to be the rule rather than the exception I wanted to do something else than just pointing fingers. It's an existentialist idea, but what is broken here is not only the individual. It's systemic, and little to no different to why we saw the Banking crisis in 2008. It's the whole fucking culture. It's been devoured by greed. The market is all there is left. Why is that?

M4V3R is guilty alright. But I'm sure MPOE-PR is the last innocent and honest person around.

malevolent

legendary

Activity: 3472

Merit: 1724

Quote from: mralbi on December 22, 2012, 06:24:18 AM

Pay back 260.000 dollars in 3 years? Huh

Thats impossible with "normal" work. even if you earn 150.000 dollars a year, (which is already quite much in poland i assume) you will have to pay taxes and social security first and you also need to pay for rent and food.

Average yearly wages in Poland (after taxes and shit) are about $10 000.
You won't find a job for $150k a year unless you have connections in the government to get a place on the board of directors in some corrupt national company (but it would probably still be a lot less than $150k).

becoin

legendary

Activity: 3431

Merit: 1233

amano

newbie

Activity: 25

Merit: 0

Quote from: freeAgent on December 22, 2012, 11:12:43 AM

people who generally let greed get in the way of common sense and morality.

Welcome to the real world ... One of the richest guys in Europe, Bernard Arnault, is about to be charged with tax fraud, for setting up mailbox companies in Belgium to avoid taxes in France. Ok this is a bit off topic, but stuff like that seriously pisses me off. No sense of morality whatsoever.
Greed got the better of M4v3R, and what he did was wrong, seriously wrong, but at least he's trying to fix his mistake, where as scum like Arnault just denies any wrongdoings.
Scum of the earth, it either sinks to the bottom or floats to the top ...

freeAgent

sr. member

Activity: 240

Merit: 250

This is yet another ridiculous episode in Bitcoin history. Customer funds are supposed to be segregated. This is a law everywhere I know of for a good reason: because shit like this can and will happen. My biggest problem with the whole Bitcoin system right now is that it's full of scammers, amateur "entrepreneurs" pulling shit like this, and people who generally let greed get in the way of common sense and morality.

MPOE-PR

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 522

Quote from: disclaimer201 on December 21, 2012, 10:09:11 PM

If you hadn't earned anything through the side but worked for it day in and out I wouldn't want to bet on your integrity of not touching funds either to earn at least some interest for part of the user funds. So, please member of this "community" - don't pretend like any of you guys who possibly stealing electricity or misusing your company's resources that it would never have crossed your minds to earn interest or short btc.

Fuck you for even daring to insinuate crap like that. Turn off your computer and never show up around here again, you have no business posting on any forum I read.

Quote from: HorseRider on December 22, 2012, 05:36:06 AM

In China, there was death penalty case 10 years ago.

China is kinda cool like that.

Quote from: HorseRider on December 22, 2012, 05:36:06 AM

I think the best methods here is try to restructure the debt as soon as possible

It is not a matter of how soon, restructuring is not possible at all. The value of an exchange that's not on the aformentioned list of two is something in the low hundreds to mid tens of BTC. Lock stock and barrel, the whole shebang. The value of a blown exchange, such as bitmarket.eu or bitfloor.com or so forth is some approximation of zero or epsilon. To restructure tens of thousands in debt atop zero to epsilon equity is an impossibility (except if you have governments and central banks, which BTC doesn't have).

Quote from: mralbi on December 22, 2012, 06:24:18 AM

I have sent the admin some ideas and i am also willing to invest into his site, but 260.000 USD, thats simply impossible to "earn" back.

Quite.

Quote from: mralbi on December 22, 2012, 06:24:18 AM

Actually the most annoying part for me is, that i went into the bitcoin system because the "bank run" problem is not existing, and now this guy is speculating with users funds more than any normal bank from the corrupt banking system ever would have dared... Lol

Who'd have thought real world problems don't have panacea solutions. Everyone conveniently thinks irl banking sucks because "bankers are evil". This is practically never the case. Real world systems suck because complexity is unbounded and human ability is.

M4v3R

hero member

Activity: 607

Merit: 500

My plan is to work hard making the site better (finally implement the rating system, and some other things) and introduce a mandatory fee for using it. In return, I can also promise (besides an already tried trading platform) a 24h support for everyone. And of course I promise that something like this will not happen again. I know for some my word on this can mean nothing, but there's no other way for this to work. I'm also still looking for people that wanting to invest in the site. They would get a share of every future profit the site will generate. There are already two people that I'm talking with, but anyone else is also invited to contact me over this.

For the record: over 20 people registered on Bitmarket in last 24 hours. There are now more than 35000 users on the site. The potential for growth and profit is there. With proper execution and a little help from the outside I will be able to return the funds to the users. Let me repeat myself: if I didn't wanted to make this right, I would just make up some sad hacking story, find a big enough tx id on block chain to "prove" it and then dissapear. But that's not going to happen - I've made this mess and I have and will clean it up.

Scrat Acorns

sr. member

Activity: 293

Merit: 250

"Hedge funds"

Quote from: HorseRider on December 22, 2012, 05:36:06 AM

I think the best methods here is try to restructure the debt as soon as possible. tell the users exactly how much the black hole is, and change the unit of debt from bitcoin to fiat money. If you owe 20,000 bitcoin, then it's about 260,000 USD. You can sell the site's code for thousands of USD, and give people serious commitment that you owe them such amount of money. You're live in Europe and if you work and save hard enough, it is possible that you can pay them back in 3 years.

Pay them back out of the goodness of his heart? Never going to happen unless he is forced to do so by the legal system. 260k is a boatload of money to pay off in a country where the average monthly salary is $1.2k. If by work you mean bitcoin related projects then I don't see how can anyone trust him with their money ever again.

btcfaucet

full member

Activity: 166

Merit: 100

Bitcoin Faucet

Just finished a bitmarket-like site for the UK ( https://bitbargain.co.uk ) yesterday, but after such an appalling (yet not unprecedented) event I will hardly find any sellers to float coins. Thanks a lot BM :-(

Herodes

hero member

Activity: 868

Merit: 1000

M4v3R, you gambled with other peoples money. This means you are a criminal and should be treated as such.

mralbi

sr. member

Activity: 271

Merit: 250

Pay back 260.000 dollars in 3 years? Huh

Thats impossible with "normal" work. even if you earn 150.000 dollars a year, (which is already quite much in poland i assume) you will have to pay taxes and social security first and you also need to pay for rent and food.

Actually the most annoying part for me is, that i went into the bitcoin system because the "bank run" problem is not existing, and now this guy is speculating with users funds more than any normal bank from the corrupt banking system ever would have dared... Lol

I have sent the admin some ideas and i am also willing to invest into his site, but 260.000 USD, thats simply impossible to "earn" back.

HorseRider

donator

Activity: 1120

Merit: 1001

Quote from: M4v3R on December 21, 2012, 01:31:02 PM

Quote from: sarpar on December 21, 2012, 12:24:29 PM

Did you claim your loss in the liquidation process? If so we should be able to find you on the list of creditors. Soon including the exact amount.

Yes, I've sent the claim a while ago.

Quote from: disclaimer201

Best to take down the side and stop all trades asap, or freeze all trades or whatever - have a message up with link to the forum, email all customers and see if people are want Bitmarket to open again in a few days or weeks.

There is a message on the site - once you log in it really stands out and points to this forums thread. I've also halted all trading, so no one will sell Bitcoins he can't withdraw. Trying to make an offer will also take you to this thread.

I can feel your good gesture and kindly attitude now, however, it is not right to use the fund of the client to do anything without a serious permission from the users. This is a crime if you are running any real world exchange business. In China, there was death penalty case 10 years ago.

I think the best methods here is try to restructure the debt as soon as possible. tell the users exactly how much the black hole is, and change the unit of debt from bitcoin to fiat money. If you owe 20,000 bitcoin, then it's about 260,000 USD. You can sell the site's code for thousands of USD, and give people serious commitment that you owe them such amount of money. You're live in Europe and if you work and save hard enough, it is possible that you can pay them back in 3 years.

chiliftw

member

Activity: 86

Merit: 10

Well, this christmas present sucks... My loss is not as high as others posted in this thread but anyway, my 45 BTC are obviously gone and I´m not happy with that. Bitmarket was the only site where every trade went well for me, I never had problems with scam etc so I trusted it. All the more it is disappointing to be scammed by the admin himself. M4v3R, I would like you to do everything you can to find a solution for this. Even a partially payback would be better than nothing. Take your time, but do something about it and let us know - you owe it the users and the whole bitcoin community.

SgtSpike

legendary

Activity: 1400

Merit: 1005

Quote from: disclaimer201 on December 21, 2012, 10:09:11 PM

If you hadn't earned anything through the side but worked for it day in and out I wouldn't want to bet on your integrity of not touching funds either to earn at least some interest for part of the user funds. So, please member of this "community" - don't pretend like any of you guys who possibly stealing electricity or misusing your company's resources that it would never have crossed your minds to earn interest or short btc. You are all experienced traders and prudent little angels, I'm sure. At the time, shorting wasn't outrageous but something anyone did who halfway followed Btc prices.

I never would. I'd be much too afraid of losing more than I could repay. There is NO safe investment in the BTC world. If I owe debts in BTC (which, if I am holding on to users funds, I essentially would be), then I keep that BTC safe and don't touch it, play with it, manipulate it, or "invest" it in any way shape or form. That is my responsibility on behalf of the users, whether I am getting paid for it or not.

I am sorry to hear that you sell your integrity for so low a price.

Topic: BitMarket.Eu has closed down - page 34. (Read 204282 times)