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Topic: BitMarket.Eu has closed down - page 30. (Read 204185 times)

member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
January 11, 2013, 07:17:43 PM
Please keep in mind that MtGox paid ~17000 BTC for bailing out bitomat.pl's users, which was MUCH smaller (only traders from Poland), so here it's not unreasonable. Lastly, I'm offering my technical support at every stage of investement, even months after that, until all is repaid.

Have you contacted MagicalTux? That would be a good idea.
legendary
Activity: 1526
Merit: 1001
January 11, 2013, 04:28:58 PM
Is there a chance that you will get anything back from Bitcoinica? You know, the 20th is the deadline for the form to be sent to that insolvency administrator in New Zealand. Or did you really gamble all the money away? For me, it's only about 50 BTC that bitcoinica owes me, but I was lucky to get half of my coins back from Amir and a few more from that Zhoutong "charity" fund. I'm guessing you had no luck in that respect for they wouldn't pay back to big creditors until...well never. But who knows what this insolvency agency will do...
legendary
Activity: 2450
Merit: 1008
January 11, 2013, 08:13:30 AM
I've implemented deducting the fee from "on hold" balance if a user has one, as suggested above.
Very good!
hero member
Activity: 607
Merit: 500
January 11, 2013, 02:16:14 AM
Blockchain transactions will prove nothing, because there is no one from Bitcoinica to prove that the addresses belong to them. Soon their liquidators will post reports regarding all claims, which hopefully will be an enough proof that the funds were in fact there.

The rationale for investing is that bigger services either won't sell to anybody, or the price is impossible for investors to pay. In case of Bitmarket for relatively small price the potential is quite big.
Please keep in mind that MtGox paid ~17000 BTC for bailing out bitomat.pl's users, which was MUCH smaller (only traders from Poland), so here it's not unreasonable. Lastly, I'm offering my technical support at every stage of investement, even months after that, until all is repaid.

Update: I've implemented deducting the fee from "on hold" balance if a user has one, as suggested above.
legendary
Activity: 3472
Merit: 1722
January 10, 2013, 07:41:36 PM
Ask mtgox if they would like to buy bitmarket.eu for 18k BTC Wink


EDIT: not the domain name but the whole exchange. And only once you start getting your customers return to using bitmarket.
member
Activity: 89
Merit: 10
January 10, 2013, 07:40:06 PM
Are there other Finnish users of Bitmarket.eu, who lost their bitcoins? We should discuss filing a police report together. Also, do any Finnish forum members have experience on how the Finnish police handles this kind of international financial fraud cases? Does anyone have personal details on the people who run Bitmarket.eu?

Can we get Interpol involved?
http://www.interpol.int/Crime-areas/Financial-crime/Financial-crime
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1005
January 10, 2013, 06:02:21 PM
hero member
Activity: 530
Merit: 500
January 10, 2013, 05:14:42 PM
I've never been a user of any of the Bitcoin services where the customer base was scammed, previously. However, I was a user of Bitmarket and while I wasn't personally scammed someone I recommended to the service might've been. I'm thus slightly more interested in this case compared to all the others.

1) Without proof that user funds were indeed used to gamble on Bitcoinica an equally likely explanation is that the site operator is sitting on them. Bailing him out with all these grand business plans makes those bitcoins "clean".

Suggestion: Provide proof of the blockchain transactions and Bitcoinica claim.

2) Any and all business plans that can make 18k BTC in a reasonable timeframe will create zero profit if used with Bitmarket, 18k BTC profit if used with any other site. It's difficult to understand investors who make such a choice.

Suggestion: Provide rational arguments as to why those business plans are better suited for Bitmarket than other sites. They exist, they have large userbases and some have even stayed away from scamming users. Note: The rationale for Bitmarket is not in question, but for the investors it's downright strange.

3) The Bitmarket site owner played the casino with user funds, and lost. If he had won, the profit would've gone to him, not the users. One of the most profitable Bitcoin business models to have surfaced so far (excluding, I believe, Mt. Gox and Satoshi Dice - where I'm wary of the latter) is to open up a service and then simply scam the users. This will continue until one of two things happens:

a) There's a protocol solution making service scamming impossible. This I believe to be critically needed before Bitcoin is a viable transaction medium.

b) Scam artists are prosecuted. We're still waiting for Bitcoinica, but it looks unlikely. Bitmarket isn't, however. Virtual goods have already been the subject of the highest court in the relevant jurisdiction and the site owner has publically admitted to the deed. It would be a straightforward case and likely make future scam artists think twice.

I suspect cognitive biases to play a role here. You would not be as lenient with someone who broke into your house and stole the same amount of money/goods.
hero member
Activity: 607
Merit: 500
January 10, 2013, 03:58:59 PM
My friend, ever since we started trading there have been 43.71319707 BTC traded up to today, (this is since 3rd Janruary) This results in a total of 0.109282993 btc made in fees within 6 days.

With these trends we can expect to earn 18k worth of bitcoins in around 164,710 days.

So to answer your question, it would be around 450 years before bitmarket.eu can earn 18k worth of bitcoins in fees. (It might be slightly less because I think some investors are planning to invest some money.)

There were more than 100 BTC traded in that period, not all of them are confirmed by sellers yet though.
Also, please keep in mind that the volume now is very low now, because Bitmarket lost some users that lost trust in the site. It will take probably few weeks for volume to go back to regular levels. And with proper advertising + new features, it could further rise.

Finally, as mralbi said, we will try to make some key arrangements with other Bitcoin services to generate further revenue.

Isn´t it a  good idea to pay our fees with the BTCs on hold? So we can reduce our loss for ourself? That is more trustworthy. People are so maybe more motivated to work again with bitmarket.eu.

That is an excellent proposition. But then m4v3r will pay the expenses for running bitmarket.eu from his own pocket (which is empty, as he says). How many years he needs to do that before he makes +18K bitcoins in fees?

The expenses always were, and will paid from our pockets. Comparing to the debt they aren't that big. The idea you proposed is really good. If no one has anything against it, I might implement it very soon.
sr. member
Activity: 271
Merit: 250
January 10, 2013, 04:02:55 AM
no, i think we all agree that solely from the "trading fee" concept it will not be possible ever to reimburse the debts.

The money needs to come somehow from advertising / product commissions or, what is actually my idea, from allowing bitmarket users to offer P2P services to each other via bitmarket. We are currently brainstorming on ideas, and also how the possible investments can be done and how we can put trust back into the site.

But also development of ideas would take time and please dont expect any quick results. Even when we get an investment sum of 20.000 euros or so it does not mean that the money would not be used to pay out frozen coins immediately

full member
Activity: 214
Merit: 100
January 09, 2013, 06:20:14 PM
Isn´t it a  good idea to pay our fees with the BTCs on hold? So we can reduce our loss for ourself? That is more trustworthy. People are so maybe more motivated to work again with bitmarket.eu.
That is an excellent proposition. But then m4v3r will pay the expenses for running bitmarket.eu from his own pocket (which is empty, as he says). How many years he needs to do that before he makes +18K bitcoins in fees?

My friend, ever since we started trading there have been 43.71319707 BTC traded up to today, (this is since 3rd Janruary) This results in a total of 0.109282993 btc made in fees within 6 days.

With these trends we can expect to earn 18k worth of bitcoins in around 164,710 days.

So to answer your question, it would be around 450 years before bitmarket.eu can earn 18k worth of bitcoins in fees. (It might be slightly less because I think some investors are planning to invest some money.)
legendary
Activity: 3431
Merit: 1233
January 09, 2013, 07:34:20 AM
Isn´t it a  good idea to pay our fees with the BTCs on hold? So we can reduce our loss for ourself? That is more trustworthy. People are so maybe more motivated to work again with bitmarket.eu.
That is an excellent proposition. But then m4v3r will pay the expenses for running bitmarket.eu from his own pocket (which is empty, as he says). How many years he needs to do that before he makes +18K bitcoins in fees?
newbie
Activity: 8
Merit: 0
January 09, 2013, 07:02:21 AM
Isn´t it a  good idea to pay our fees with the BTCs on hold? So we can reduce our loss for ourself? That is more trustworthy. People are so maybe more motivated to work again with bitmarket.eu.
hero member
Activity: 607
Merit: 500
January 09, 2013, 06:13:34 AM
As I said, this is not decided at this moment, I'm not a lawyer nor I wasn't prepared for this situation, that's why getting other people's opinion is cruicial for me. As SgtSpike said, most probably funds will be distributed equally to all users, with possible exception of investors who could decide to be repaid later.
BCB
vip
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1002
BCJ
January 08, 2013, 07:07:14 PM
The first batch will most probably will be repaid as soon as the investement in Bitmarket is complete, which is due very soon. As I said before, it has yet to be decided whether the funds will be distributed evenly among all users, or in some other way. It might be a good idea to pay the "little guys" first, because then the number of creditors would drastically decrease, which means that it could be possible to make specific arrangements with "bigger" creditors. Many people could consider this as unfair though, so don't take my word on it yet, I'm just iterating over possible options.
I am not owed anything by bitmarket, but this is a rather silly proposal.  Creditors should be paid back an equal percentage of their receivables, in the same manner that they would if a court of law were to assign payment back in the event of bankruptcy.

If any of the big creditors want to make a deal with you prior to such a payback, and said deal does not infringe upon or otherwise affect the payment made to other creditors, then certainly, that is their prerogative, but it is technically illegal for you to selectively decide which creditors to pay and which creditors to default upon in the event of insolvency (which you have openly declared).

+1

M4v3R, where are you getting your financial advice??
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1005
January 08, 2013, 07:03:23 PM
The first batch will most probably will be repaid as soon as the investement in Bitmarket is complete, which is due very soon. As I said before, it has yet to be decided whether the funds will be distributed evenly among all users, or in some other way. It might be a good idea to pay the "little guys" first, because then the number of creditors would drastically decrease, which means that it could be possible to make specific arrangements with "bigger" creditors. Many people could consider this as unfair though, so don't take my word on it yet, I'm just iterating over possible options.
I am not owed anything by bitmarket, but this is a rather silly proposal.  Creditors should be paid back an equal percentage of their receivables, in the same manner that they would if a court of law were to assign payment back in the event of bankruptcy.

If any of the big creditors want to make a deal with you prior to such a payback, and said deal does not infringe upon or otherwise affect the payment made to other creditors, then certainly, that is their prerogative, but it is technically illegal for you to selectively decide which creditors to pay and which creditors to default upon in the event of insolvency (which you have openly declared).
legendary
Activity: 1526
Merit: 1001
January 08, 2013, 06:35:59 PM
Big debtors could get free lifetime trading at bitmarket! lol
hero member
Activity: 607
Merit: 500
January 08, 2013, 02:59:11 PM
The first batch will most probably will be repaid as soon as the investement in Bitmarket is complete, which is due very soon. As I said before, it has yet to be decided whether the funds will be distributed evenly among all users, or in some other way. It might be a good idea to pay the "little guys" first, because then the number of creditors would drastically decrease, which means that it could be possible to make specific arrangements with "bigger" creditors. Many people could consider this as unfair though, so don't take my word on it yet, I'm just iterating over possible options.
full member
Activity: 214
Merit: 100
January 08, 2013, 02:12:33 PM
After sorting out users records, I have final, exact figures about Bitmarket financial situation. Please keep in mind that following numbers differ from what I announced on 21st, as at that time I didn't had exact data - some trades were underway and funds were moving.

As of 8th January 2013, 19:00 UTC+1:

Active account balances sum: 153.93819396 BTC (i.e. fresh funds, available for users for trading or withdrawing)
Debt account balances sum: 18855.23368897 BTC (i.e. funds that have to be reimbursed)
Total balances sum: 19009.17188293 BTC
Funds in Bitcoin wallet: 221.45049076 BTC (i.e. funds available right now)

Total debt: 18787.72139217 BTC

The last figure represents the total debt that Bitmarket will have to reimburse to its users.

Also, some members stats:

Currently registered members: 35972
New members in last 7 days: 202

Sum of transactions from last week: 116.75084692 BTC (the number is very small, but that's because the trading just started few days ago and not everyone knows about it)

Thanks for the update.

I would like to ask, though, when do the users who make the bulk of the debt get reimbursed? Dorles the proportion of the debt paid? Is it every month? After every successful transaction? Every 200 bitcoins that get collected in fees? In one go?

What is the plan?
hero member
Activity: 607
Merit: 500
January 08, 2013, 01:10:19 PM
After sorting out users records, I have final, exact figures about Bitmarket financial situation. Please keep in mind that following numbers differ from what I announced on 21st, as at that time I didn't had exact data - some trades were underway and funds were moving.

As of 8th January 2013, 19:00 UTC+1:

Active account balances sum: 153.93819396 BTC (i.e. fresh funds, available for users for trading or withdrawing)
Debt account balances sum: 18855.23368897 BTC (i.e. funds that have to be reimbursed)
Total balances sum: 19009.17188293 BTC
Funds in Bitcoin wallet: 221.45049076 BTC (i.e. funds available right now)

Total debt: 18787.72139217 BTC

The last figure represents the total debt that Bitmarket will have to reimburse to its users.

Also, some members stats:

Currently registered members: 35972
New members in last 7 days: 202

Sum of transactions from last week: 116.75084692 BTC (the number is very small, but that's because the trading just started few days ago and not everyone knows about it)
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