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Topic: BITMINE.CH List of Asked Refund for CoinCraft Desk/RIG (Read 16617 times)

legendary
Activity: 1036
Merit: 1001
/dev/null
ahh at least there are some cool pictures: http://www.bitmine.ch/Pictures/

Today, the bitcoin mining market is completely dead and in the hands of a tiny group of major players and the bankruptcy of most of our former competitors is the brightest demonstration that this market collapsed.

and this seems to be legit reason, at least for me..

sr. member
Activity: 430
Merit: 500
http://www.bitmine.ch/



Open letter from the former BITMINE AG management.


 

We are sorry to announce that on the 20th of May 2015 at 9:00, BITMINE AG has been officially declared bankrupt from the local competent court of Bellinzona.

It was publicly known that BITMINE AG was in a difficult situation from several months, but despite our biggest attempts to save the company by restructuring its product and services and seeking for new investments, all without success, left us no other chance than the road to bankruptcy. The accounts, assets and all company documents are now in hands of the Swiss justice and will be under inspection and investigation.

We all, both as former directors of the company and as individuals, make our deepest apologies to the many customers and suppliers that were patiently waiting for a refund or a compensation. As BITMINE AG’s board, we have always acted in our best good faith, within the limits of our skills and in the interests of the company and, therefore, its customers.

We also want to take the opportunity to make clear with everybody that the accusations on the forums are false, we as first have lost all the company’s share capital and several hundreds bitcoins in loans to the company ourselves. This is fully documented on the company registers and is now available to the relevant authorities for inspection.

Why did BITMINE AG go illiquid and eventually bankrupt? The answer to this question can be, in our opinion, divided in the three major issues that affected BITMINE AG:

Bitcoin value and mining difficulty. Everybody knew and was aware that there was a significant risk associated with Bitcoin mining. We have to be honest and face it: if Bitcoin was still valued at well over $1000 like it was in the beginning of 2014, nobody would have tried to cancel his orders and we would all be rich. Unfortunately, the BTC value collapsed constantly since Mt.Gox’s bust and mining difficulty exploded to values that nobody was able to predict at the time we were selling our products. Today, the bitcoin mining market is completely dead and in the hands of a tiny group of major players and the bankruptcy of most of our former competitors is the brightest demonstration that this market collapsed.

Innosilicon. The company that we engaged for the development of our A1 CoinCraft chip ended up in being BITMINE’s biggest failure. We engaged this company with a regular contract and entitled them to develop our 28nm ASIC based on our know-how and instructions, along with the full turnkey process of creating the mask, wafers and IC packaging. We had signed a contract that was expecting to guarantee us a one year exclusivity on the chip, however at a later stage we received proof that Innosilicon was plainly violating the contract from day zero and selling our own A1 chips to whoever inquired them directly. Once we pointed this out, they simply stopped answering our enquiries and disappeared, putting us in obvious panic because we had an extremely tight schedule and obligation to deliver the miners on time and they knew that perfectly. So, once they knew how attractive the market we were into was, they forced us into signing an amendment to the contract where we allowed them to sell the A1 chips to third parties. Additionally, they even forced us to write formal excuse letters for the “false” accusations under the threat that if we hadn’t signed them, they would just delay the supply of the A1 chips so long that they would be worthless.
Once the first production lot of chips, with a delay of nearly two months and a performance 50% worse than promised was delivered to us, the issue of “yield” popped up. Innosilicon repeatedly delivered us broken chips or “junk grade” ones as part of the purchased (and paid for) lots, forcing us to place ever bigger and bigger orders in order to fulfill our customers’ orders and eventually draining out most of the company’s money. Out of all the ordered chips, a huge part of them were simply not working and could only be thrown away in the garbage bin. Here you will see for yourself the pictures of the piles of tens of thousands of worthless junk grade chips still sealed in their original packages. When asked about clarifications, they claimed this was “normal production yield” but failed to provide any relevant document that could certify it. It is also worth mentioning that while we were struggling with thousands of junk chips, the A-grade ones could at all time be purchased in Hong Kong directly from their Chinese resellers, at some point even at lower prices than what we ourselves paid for.
At the end of this horrific experience, we had paid to Innosilicon in 2013 and 2014 a total of more than 8 million CHF but received only a small amount of usable A1 chips, causing us a huge financial loss. Therefore, we enquired two different lawyers in order to evaluate legal actions against them, but ended up with answers that more or less said that the chances of getting our rights respected from a Chinese court against a local Chinese company were close to zero. We only later found out this is a common practice from Chinese companies, regardless of the written agreements you make with them. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property_in_China)
Engineering difficulties. There were some difficulties on the engineering side as well. The technical design of the “CoinCraft Rig” was flawed due to its 24V power supply design. Several engineers were hired to counter the issue but this model was production ready only so late that in the meantime we had already replaced most of the Rig orders with Desks. We had also suffered from electrical components’ shortages (DCDC controllers, organic polymers capacitors, MOSFETs, etc.) and where therefore repeatedly forced in delaying our production lots.
 

The most often asked question is: where is my money gone? Why weren’t you simply able to pay back everybody?

Let us expose the financial figures to answer this question. BITMINE AG has sold in 2013 and 2014 a gross total of 12.1M CHF of products in various currencies and forms (Fiat and Bitcoin). Below is a summary of where this money has been paid to and is taken as an excerpt from the company’s official balance sheets and financial records, hence fully documented (the numbers are rounded for reading convenience).

8M paid to Innosilicon for development, masking and production lots of CoinCraft A1 chips.
2.1M paid to major suppliers of electronic components, heatsinks and casings (like Digi-key, Future Electronics, etc.).
0.7M paid for logistics (UPS, DHL, etc.).
0.7M paid to IceMine for the hosting fees of our cloud mining service.
0.6M paid as salaries to the production, management, engineering and support staff (totaling 18 people).
0.4M lost in Mt.Gox’s bankruptcy.
1.4M refunded to customers.
0.5M other running expenses such as rentals, travel expenses, legal expenditures, accounting, marketing and advertising, fuel, etc.
 

With a grand total of 14.4M CHF you may be wondering why this is actually higher than the above-mentioned sales volume. Just remember to add 1M share capital, 0.8M of loans with third parties and 0.6M of self-mined bitcoins in our operations in Iceland. If this last number may seem low to you, please remember that most of the miners in Iceland were offered as compensations to former customers through bitmine.io, leaving us only the smallest part of profits for our own operation.

The second most asked question is whether we were a scam or not. We were not because we have actually delivered a significant amount of our products. Despite all the above mentioned problems, out of the 3500 units that we sold and we got prepaid for, we have delivered to our customers more than 2000 units, all produced in our facilities.  There is a full photographic documentation of our production facility, happy customers picking up their miners and pallets full of miners being picked up by the freight company for shipping.

We acknowledge that this will not bring back your money, but hopefully it will give you an honest view on the reasons why it had been lost.

 

Regards,

The BITMINE AG board of directors
 
sr. member
Activity: 346
Merit: 250
psygambler
I got this email from ombudstelle in switzerland. She sent it higher up, but nothing more have happend.

Sehr geehrte Frau Geiser

Ihre E-Mail Adresse wurde uns von Herrn Guido Sutter weitergeleitet.
Wir haben mehrere Anfragen bezüglich des Online-Shops www.bitmine.ch erhalten. Es werden Bitcoin-Rechner im Wert von mehreren tausend Franken bestellt und bezahlt. Die Geräte werden allerdings nie geliefert. Auch im Internet findet man Artikel über diesen Shop. Wir haben mehrmals versucht, mit der Firma Kontakt aufzunehmen. Sie haben allerdings nie geantwortet.
Ist Ihnen dieser Online-Shop bekannt? Gibt es Möglichkeiten, künftig Konsumenten davor zu schützen, bei bitmine.ch Rechner zu bestellen?

Für weitere Fragen stehe ich Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung! Besten Dank!

Freundliche Grüsse
Joana Nedeltcheva

Konnten wir Ihnen weiterhelfen und möchten Sie von unserer Beratung weiterhin profitieren? Dann unterstützen Sie uns und Werden Sie Mitglied, Gönner oder Kollektivmitglied >

Joana Nedeltcheva | Beraterin
Konsumentenforum kf | Belpstrasse 11 | 3007 Bern
T +41 31 380 50 34 | F +41 31 380 50


Google translated:

Dear Mrs. Geiser

Your e-mail address has been forwarded to us by Mr. Guido Sutter.
We have received several inquiries regarding the online shop www.bitmine.ch. There are ordered and paid for, worth several thousand francs Bitcoin Calculator. The devices are, however, never delivered. On the Internet you will find articles on this store. We have tried several times to contact the company. However, they have never responded.
If you enjoyed this online shop? Are there ways in the future to protect consumers not to buy at bitmine.ch computer?

For further questions I am gladly at your disposal! Thank You Very Much!

Kind Regards
Joana Nedeltcheva

Was this helpful to you and you want to continue to benefit from our services? Then support us and become a member, patron or collective member>

Joana Nedeltcheva | Advisor
Consumer Forum kf | Belpstrasse 11 | 3007 Bern
T +41 31 380 50 34 | F +41 31 380 50

Ombudsman ecommerce - konsum.ch

http://www.konsum.ch/ombudsstelle
Ombudsstelle E-Commerce - konsum.ch       

http://www.konsum.ch/ombudsstelle
newbie
Activity: 38
Merit: 0
Any news here?  Some new progress?
full member
Activity: 183
Merit: 100
I have reported this to CYCO who have referred me to the Public Prosecutor in Ticino Canton. Interestingly, the clause about "delay not necessarily constituting a fraud" does not apply ot my case any longer because my order status on Bitmine AG website is now "cancelled". From a legal perspective, this cancels the contract and allows me to pursue Bitmine AG without being impeded by this grey area.

I am of course not saying that I am 100% confident in getting my stolen funds back, just that I am confident we can show that fraud has been committed and of course then this opens up the seizing of assets and so on, if only to make the directors' lives a misery for a long time to come.

If all else fails, taking the matter into one's own hands is a last resort. No one wants to do that, but we have to make sure that people really understands that this sort of thing is not OK. At the end of the day, whether through legal or other means, my main priority is to absolutely ensure that these guys can never do this again to anyone else. I can afford to lose what was stolen, but many others can't.

Keep going guys, we can at least make sure their lives are never the same again.

J
newbie
Activity: 38
Merit: 0
Any news here?  Angry
vip
Activity: 1428
Merit: 1145
Anyone got any news?

Got this message at the end of 2014!! I smell bull....


R Vogel   
R Vogel (Bitmine AG)
Dec 15 11:28

Hello

As you maybe already have noticed the Bitmine AG remains in serious financial trouble and can not continue the repayments for the moment, because the registered Refunds are too numerous to treat all requester equivalent.
Until some time ago the aim was to be over with all refunds by the end of the year, but it mostly depends on the bitcoin value, which, as you should know, quite decreased in the last time. So don't take this as a statement or a promise, but our goal is to solve everything. Please contact us again next year, this year we will have no more information in this regards.

In the meantime, we remain
Best regards

Thanks for your interests in our products.
Danke für Ihr Interesse an unseren Produkten.

For any questions don't hesitate to contact us. In the meantime
Für Fragen sind wir jederzeit für Sie da.

Kind regards/MfG

Customer Service

What do you expect from a person who's butt-buddies with Joshua Zipkin, son of Harrison Zachariah Zipkin, another con artist still residing in PA.
newbie
Activity: 38
Merit: 0
Still nothing... how do we proceed?
sr. member
Activity: 346
Merit: 250
psygambler
Has anyone any updates about bitmine? if there is a case to join against them?
newbie
Activity: 2
Merit: 0
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bitmine-Scam/819000581491052

They are scammers. If you want expect to recover your money, you need to open an action in Switzerland.
newbie
Activity: 38
Merit: 0
Anyone got any news?

Got this message at the end of 2014!! I smell bull....


R Vogel   
R Vogel (Bitmine AG)
Dec 15 11:28

Hello

As you maybe already have noticed the Bitmine AG remains in serious financial trouble and can not continue the repayments for the moment, because the registered Refunds are too numerous to treat all requester equivalent.
Until some time ago the aim was to be over with all refunds by the end of the year, but it mostly depends on the bitcoin value, which, as you should know, quite decreased in the last time. So don't take this as a statement or a promise, but our goal is to solve everything. Please contact us again next year, this year we will have no more information in this regards.

In the meantime, we remain
Best regards

Thanks for your interests in our products.
Danke für Ihr Interesse an unseren Produkten.

For any questions don't hesitate to contact us. In the meantime
Für Fragen sind wir jederzeit für Sie da.

Kind regards/MfG

Customer Service
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
any updates here?
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
these emails are the key

 [email protected],
[email protected]
[email protected]
 [email protected]
 [email protected]
 [email protected]  
[email protected]

same address of bitmine , same people: http://myip.ms/info/whois/31.3.133.74

phones: +41912600410   +41 91 2600404 



newbie
Activity: 38
Merit: 0
Anyone got there money back???

What the fuck bitmine!!
newbie
Activity: 2
Merit: 0
Is here Some one  knows Swiss lawyer? Can we make it together? Save lawyers fee.

Someone will go to Swiss? We can go together
My email [email protected]
To ask refund
newbie
Activity: 2
Merit: 0
Someone will go to Swiss? We can go together
My email [email protected]
To ask refund
member
Activity: 65
Merit: 10
RETURN OUR MONEY

You scamming lying pieces of shit
newbie
Activity: 4
Merit: 0
I am also planning to go to Camorino get my refunds, if you want to join me, contact me ([email protected])
THE MORE PEOPLE THE BETTER
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 500
What do you think about go to Swiss with few people from all Europe in the same day?
Who can ride with me to Swiss and check what this company do and speak with them face to face and demand our money!
We don't leave their company until they give us money back. Otherwise we can wait another year.
What do you think that will accomplish?

The only thing you will have is travel cost.

Try and either get them to send you additional hash power or transfer your order to cloudmining, otherwise I am afraid you will most likely have to wait for your refund.

Otherwise, if you are a Swiss citizen and fluent in Italian, try to get a court order that makes bitmine pay your money back.
(Or prepare for legal fees in excess of 1000$ on a 5000$ order, which will NOT be awarded to you if your case succeeds).
newbie
Activity: 24
Merit: 0
What do you think about go to Swiss with few people from all Europe in the same day?
Who can ride with me to Swiss and check what this company do and speak with them face to face and demand our money!
We don't leave their company until they give us money back. Otherwise we can wait another year.
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