Topic: [BitPool] Mesh networks to bypass ISPs - page 2. (Read 5096 times)

YES.

This is the answer to Net Neutrality. LANs will pop up all over also.

304 km
http://www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/news/1984314/wi-fi-world-record-set-304km
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-range_Wi-Fi

Yes, it has to be line of site.


link first established on 2007-06-16
it appears to be permanent from Monte Amiata (Tuscany) to Monte Limbara (Sardinia)
frequency: 5765 MHz
IEEE 802.11a (Wi-Fi), bandwidth 5 MHz
Radio: Ubiquiti Networks XR5
Wireless routers: MikroTik RouterBOARD with RouterOS, NStreme optimization enabled
Length: 304 km (189 mi).
Antenna is 120 cm with handmade waveguide. 35 dBi estimated

I imagine if you use a large dish antenna you would be able to achieve great distances. So I suppose it is theoretically possible to get 300 km distance.

Ah, mixed up imperial and metric units - always confusing, how should he know that km and ft are not approximately the same thing?
(actually, connection distances of up to 300km have been reported for Wifi technology: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-range_Wi-Fi)

Onkel Paul

feet, not kilometers.

Okay. I assume you mean current meshnets. Are there no open frequencies that can be used for long distance communications?

Because yeah. It seems a true centrally-owned-infrastructure-free dream cannot be had if there is a monopoly on long distance comms, as you said.

Well that is more interesting! If something like this could be used to link cities.

I'm guessing that terrain matters though and this "300km" was line of sight?

If 10 relays would mean that speeds would be unbearably slow then wouldn't this cause incentives to essentially have several "central" local internet communities/websites

Antennas using 802.11n have been able to achieve transmission distances over 300 km unamplified.

Also, the Free Network Foundation (FNF) should be something to follow:

 - https://lists.thefnf.org/listinfo/discuss
 - http://lists.thefnf.org/pipermail/builders
 - https://lists.thefnf.org/listinfo
 - https://thefnf.org

And maybe SkyWire:
 - https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7588531

If you needed to send data to a node that was 1,200 yards away then you would need to pay the node you send the data directly to (the one 300 yards from you), to the node it sends data to (total of 600 yards from you), the node 300 yards from the 2nd node (900 total yards from you) and the last node (the last payment is debatable, but lets say for arguments sake that we do pay the last one as well - total of 1,200 yards from you). This would involve sending payment to a total of 4 different nodes (a TX with 4 outputs).

Now for example if you needed to send data to a node 300,000 yards away (only ~170 miles) then you would need to send payment to 100 nodes (assuming the data can be sent in the most efficient manner). Payments would have to be set up this way as if they were not then all of the nodes would simply be relaying data for free (the net effect), as nodes would be getting compensated for receiving the data but having to pay to send it to the next node if it were not and nodes would have no incentive to relay data otherwise. 
These super nodes would be spending huge sums of money to send their data, not receiving huge sums of money. As with bitcoin the sender must always pay the fee. If the receiver was to pay the fee for data then a random node could simply send a bunch of junk data to random nodes that did not request and have no need for the data being received.

Having super nodes like this presents a couple of issues.

1- The nodes that connect to these super nodes, no matter how many connections the super nodes have would have to handle a lot more traffic then other nodes (that are not super nodes). This would ultimately result in the nodes that are connected to the super nodes to get overloaded with traffic.

2- Per my calculations a super node that has 1,000,000 connections would need to be able to connect to nodes ~95 miles away (this number is off due to rounding) in every direction. This would not only be technologically challenging to achieve this in itself but something with that much power would interfere with the communications with other nodes as there could only be a limited number of frequencies that could be used. This would mean that nodes within this 95 mile radius from the super node may not be able to communicate well (or at all) with other nodes.

I would think that this type of setup would only be feasible in urban or suburban areas where population density is high. If population density is too low then users would rely on a small number of nodes for internet access, in other words there would only be one possible chain to get to the rest of the internet. These nodes would use some level of electricity when they are on and connected (or trying to connect) to the rest of the network. If the nodes are rarely used then a user may turn off their node (or they could turn off their node for any number of other reasons), cutting off internet access to others that rely on that node to get to the rest of the internet.

That's what we're discussing right now. Welcome to the discussion.

Ask the Libertarians how a "free market" would create a functional meshnet.

its a illustration of a fantasy scenario. not a blueprint of a business plan..

we are just tossing around theories and idea's the picture is not any kind of final design, draft design or anything close.. so dont sweat the small stuff.. try concentrating on the main points of the topic not the fact that roads are not black, that grass is not that shade of green, that towns do not have an oval bubble around them, and not all buildings are the same shade of gray...

.. that should cover it

.. oops. not quite. my numbers were inaccurate for pricing, the userbase per relay was innacurate (you cant put 250 homes in a 30m-100metre diameter) the translucent colouring does not account for signal loss due to thick wall penetration vs open air.. radio waves are not red or blue in colour. the circle at the center of each relay represents something the size of a router, yet in the image it looks to be the width of one side of a road (width of a car).

oh, and the way.. do you know when an image is not suppose to depict exact positioning or relay's, which you would expect at a final stage of a town planning meeting...... when the picture is not even of a real/true existing town!

now have a nice day.. hopefully the posts will stay on the topic of the idea, and no longer meander off course with knitpicking

It's not really a minor point. If fact, it would be a major factor in the placement and power of the transmitters. It would be a huge deal for stationary users. Competition may even drive people to kill their neighbor's wifi. A useful network would be contracted with licensed transmitters and carefully placed.

For what you suggest: Mycelium's ad hoc network for Bitcoincard resolves this for mobile systems by limiting the bandwidth to sms sized messages.

what bores me most is when someone knit picks a 2 second diagrams and they try to point out specifics, but with a simple 2 second glance, misses the points and specifics of the whole idea

want me to draw the planet and say the world will always be a round far after we all died. and wait a knit pick of that hills, mountains, values make it uneven, and house foundations make parts flat. to ignore the point that the world will be around. just to say its not perfectly ROUND

yes, but it looks like a hastily drawn diagram, so no big deal

Meshnets don't use high powered transmitters. They depend on non-licensed freqs.

Why? Is this a limitation of hardware generally available, licensing is required for high enough powered transmitting devices? Or what?

Wouldn't the radius need to intersect the center of adjacent transmitters?