Topic: bitsquare.io - The P2P Fiat-Bitcoin Exchange - page 9. (Read 34655 times)

The US is difficlut with their crappy banking system. OKPay is not allowed for US citizens but in LocalBitcoins there are quite a few OKPay trades form the US, so somehow users to manage to get around those restrictions (VPN?). I am not sure about the chargeback risk of PerfectMoney but it seems to be very low. PerfectMoney is used in the US.
Cash deposit would be prob. the best option but that needs a bti more investiagtion how an arbitrator can verify the transfer. the paper receipt can easily photoshopeed.
But it seems that in reality it works good enough (there are many trades on LocalBitcoins with it).

The investigation of the best payment methods in different regions is a lot of work and unfortunately not too many peopel have contributed so far. 
We have started to collect all informations here: 
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xiOqcBSInIF7ozWdN3DvM5O-nyZ-397G9MR8LOXs6iA/ 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1iQHhtAOieu5i6_2rvkvtcLS70A991aZlxkJgzv97XuU/ 

I think this will be innovative and I will definitely be using it once it is up and has some users in the system.
I tend to not use things right away, until the bugs have been sorted out. But will be waiting for this to be available at 100% before putting anything into it.
I like the name as it is attractive to the non bitcoin user.

OK, It seems that the ability of a customer to charge back in the case of SEPA is limited compared to the U.S. ACH system or any other financial intermediary doing business here.  The week link here is the U.S. with no reliable bridge from traditional finance to the crypto world.  Could this change if traditional banks offered crypto wallets and exchange for fiat?  You are still face with the clearing of funds unless cash was deposited directly into the account.  So, a hacker obtains access to account A, makes a deposit of uncleared funds that become available immediately as bank policy.  Hacker buys btc and ships it off to the great unknown.  So, we are still in the same situation.  There is a delay built into the U.S. system to prevent fraud.  Either the bank takes the loss, the customer takes the loss or money is spent on security which will never be hacker proof.  This is intractable unless the U.S. goes to a less lenient charge back policy.  Banks will raise prices. cut services and so forth so you can't really force it upon them.

Interesting. this is the first time I have run across this project.  It actually makes the most sense out of everything I had been researching this past week.

I watched the video and read most of the documentation but have a few questions:

I am going to do more research on this subject but don't you need a payment processor or a financial institution to initiate SEPA transfers?  How does the P2P system do this? 

Does the P2P software confirm that fiat has been sent to the proper trader or does the receiver do that or both?  If the software does, then how does it know this?

Everybody that has tried to do ACH runs into the same problems, what is the difference between the too systems that makes SEPA more secure?  European finance seems to have been ahead of the U.S. in the area for security for such things credit and debit cards.  Is the U.S. regulation too customer friendly that makes charging back the de facto policy when a customer complains?

I'm not lazy and am somewhat familiar with this new website called Google, so I will find the answers too.  It has always been my impression and my friends from our stints in Europe and other places that U.S. finance is far more heavily regulated in both traditional banking and investments so I am interested how these systems can be integrated in crypto.  Everything I have been looking at for ideas has some sort of fatal flaw.  It still seems to atop the the traditional system or is fairy dust like maintaining pegs to the dollar.  Microsoft probably opened up a can of worms backing Bitshares for instance and so is everybody pushing it.  It is just that these are too small for regulators to worry about for now and legal issues far from resolved.  So, something like this definitely has a market. 

One area that might be a problem is some sort of liability for the arbitrators, a blanket Arbitrators, Judges & Mediators Errors and Omissions Insurance (E&O) would cover that and doesn't cover fraud by them.  It could be paid for some how by fees, cover legal costs they might incur and can probably be done through some sort of real world trust fairly cheap.  So, It can save somebody a headache down the road. 

You are so fast!!!! :-)

https://github.com/bitsquare/bitsquare/releases/tag/v0.3.6

Thanks HostFat for posting!

That release comes with a lot of features and improvements.
It will be probably the last "feature release" before Beta.

Now its time for battle testing the app. We need your help for testing and feedback!

The trade limits are already less tight and are now dependent on the payment method:
Bank transfers: 0.1 BTC (low chargeback risk) 
OKPay/PerfectMoney/Swish/AliPay: 0.2 BTC  (very low chargeback risk) 
Altcoins: 0.3 BTC (no chargeback risk) 

Once it is sufficiently tested we will rise those limits probably to:
Bank transfers: 1 BTC
OKPay/PerfectMoney/Swish/AliPay: 1-3 BTC
Altcoins: 5-10 BTC

The current limits even if they are low are now already useful for real trading at least with altcoins. There are a bunch of offers set up already, just browse the offerbook or create your own offer.

If you don't have a matching payment account just sign up for OKPay, you can create an anonymous account in a few minutes and as long as you don't need to transfer the Fiat money out of OKPay (e.g. using it for chains of trades in both directions) you don't need to do KYC/AML verification. And OKPay transactions are instant and they claim to do no chargeback, so it is the best payment option for Fiat.
They charge 1% fee, but consider that price volatility in crypto exchange has much more influence than fees!
Due the privacy protection in Bitsquare you can expect better prices than in other exchanges, so the fees will become even more irrelevant.

Please help us spread the word and use it for trading now. Bitsquare is a community project not a VC based startup - it can only succeed with support form the community!


**Release notes:**
* New payment methods: National bank transfer, Transfer with same bank, Transfer with specific bank
* Support 75 global currencies and 18 alternative crypto currencies
* Price feed for all major currencies and all alternative crypto currencies
* Make list of displayed currencies customizable
* Separate crypto currencies accounts
* Increase trade limits to 0.1-0.3 BTC
* Make trade limit depend on payment method
* Check transaction fee for funding transactions
* Use specific colors for buy and sell
* P2P network optimizations (refresh offers)
* Reconnect and republish offers after inactivity (detect standby/sleep mode)
* Display detailed info for P2P connections
* Display inboud and outbound traffic
* Measure round trip time
* Throttle max. traffic
* Add “Show all currencies” option to the offer book
* Make market price invertable
* Notifications and advanced popup handling

https://github.com/bitsquare/bitsquare/releases/tag/v0.3.5

Looking forward to hear about your ideas!

I've been busy since the end of January, but part of what I've been thinking about is what I feel might be a novel way to address this problem without face to face trading, without necessarily requiring cash deposit, and without involving third party services such as shapeshift.io or PerfectMoney (and of course, without banks).  As I've thought of this, I'm keenly aware of the importance of some of bitsquares principles, e.g. that it is built for those who "do not want to forfeit control or privacy to a central authority in order to trade with other individuals & regard financial transactions as a form of private speech that should be protected from surveillance by banks, governments, and other institutions."

Anyway, I will soon jump on the mailing list for bitsquare to float a couple ideas that I have been mulling privately.

Indeed, Bitsquare was quoted in the document:

https://gist.github.com/drwasho/aa6ab79e92f2a876073e#1-dht-listing

I do believe there is a viable way for this to occur without involvement of banks, and without face to face trading.  I will float some ideas on the development list after considering them more.

A currency trade via OpenBazaar is basically the same as via Bitsquare, so I don't see how that solves anything.
Excluding Banks would be great but beside face-to-face trading and cash deposit there is not alternatives so far I see.

I don't plan another crowd funding campaign. The marketing effort was just too much in relation to what you can get.
The best what people can help now is to use it. Alpha testing on Mainnet is open and hopefully soon there will be the Beta version out.
Of course spreading the word would be a great help as well as I should use my resources for development.

You asked if anyone had recommendation for payment option for US. I do not recommend PerfectMoney or such options which rely on a third party.

However, as a decentralized currency exchange I think what would be consistent, is this:

https://gist.github.com/drwasho/aa6ab79e92f2a876073e

Specifically, see:  "Crypto-Fiat Currency Exchanges" which addresses this use case

https://gist.github.com/drwasho/aa6ab79e92f2a876073e#2-crypto-fiat-currency-exchanges

I believe this kind of thing will solve the problem but I also think that this sort of arrangement would need much more discussion, adaptation, etc. - I'll soon be on the mailing list for bitsquare and will bring up this and other issues there in more detail.

After (almost) one year from that comment, I feel the same about this project.

This project is a huge step further and beyond LocalBitcoins.

I hope you guys launch another crowdfunding campaign with an efficient previous PR work this time.

Somehow more marketing and advertising is needed for this project.

Following to see good news about bitsquare this year.

I wish you guys all success!

Thanks a lot to both of you!
I created quite a few offers. There are many altcoins supported, those might be even easier to test as no nasty bank transfer is needed.
I still have no good payment option for US. PerfectMoney can be used, but its somehow crappy... Does anyone has recommendations?
ACH and Wire are too unsafe / too expensive. Cash deposit seems to be ok but needs more investigation.

Here are some docs where I tried to gather information, but still not very complete:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1iQHhtAOieu5i6_2rvkvtcLS70A991aZlxkJgzv97XuU/
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xiOqcBSInIF7ozWdN3DvM5O-nyZ-397G9MR8LOXs6iA/

Here is a list of altcoins currently supported:
- Ethereum
- Litecoin
- Namecoin
- Dash
- Anoncoin
- NuBits
- NuShares
- FairCoin
- Peercoin
- Primecoin
- Dogecoin
- Nxt
- BitShares
- Counterparty
- Ripple

Stellar is in the current version but will be removed in the next release as it need an additional memo field which is missing atm.

I still did not had time to push Bitsquare to those altcoin communities, so if anyone has contacts there would be good to get in touch with them and get some support form them for testing/promoting Bitsquare.

Thank you, I am broadcasting this to my social and other channels re. the new, just released pre-release candidate (v0.3.3) for the official Beta version and will be helping out ASAP with some development stuffs.

There is a new release out, enabled on Mainnet

https://github.com/bitsquare/bitsquare/releases

There also already some offers