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Topic: bitstamp 18,000 bitcoins stolen? -confirmed (Read 15061 times)

legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1010
Borsche
January 10, 2015, 01:15:55 PM

4. I'm believing in this:
Quote
Updates to the exchange service include a migration to Amazon's AWS cloud infrastructure, new hardware systems and the integration of BitGo's multi-signature wallet technology.
Source

But that alone definitely does not mean better security, it's just some reassuring words for now. Migrate a complicated project to a completely new cloud infrastructure in under a week, which have it's own quirks and gotchas including new rule-based security and ephemeral storages, while also changing the underlying transaction signing technology, I wonder what could go wrong? For comparison, banks take months if not years for a similar change of software. Yeah, bitcoin is much better fitted for software than banking, but there are still countless ways they could've fucked up, week is too short for proper implementation & testing.
sgk
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1002
!! HODL !!
OK, so after BitStamp was hacked, people have been posting posts over posts and threads over threads about it and even making scam accusations about the exchange. Some even called it the next Gox. But all of a sudden all threads have gone silent after the exchange came back online just fine, within a small time window.

No problem.

At least I would take this opportunity to actually give some postive feedback to BitStamp team who worked hard and delivered on my personal expectations after the hack. They made sure to keep the users informed of the progress via Twitter too. And they surely didn't "Gox". I have an account with them and thankfully I didn't lose anything because I had emptied my balance in September but in future I'm gonna trust them as good as I did previously - or even more than that, because I'm sure their security is now far better than what they had before. And they mean serious business.

They're here to stay and make Bitcoin ecosystem better.

Since you brought it up:
1.  The "small window" was a business week.
2.  No confirmed fiat withdrawals.
3.  No [previously promised] audits => fractional reserve possible.
4.  Re. "better security":  As long as you're sure.

TL;DR: Let's not start stroking them just yet.

1. OK, but does it matter? They need their time, if it's a busines wekk or not
2. Let's wait until working business day - Monday
3. Agree with you - I have no idea

4. I'm believing in this:
Quote
Updates to the exchange service include a migration to Amazon's AWS cloud infrastructure, new hardware systems and the integration of BitGo's multi-signature wallet technology.
Source
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
Why would they process btc withdrawal but not fiat? You could just convert your $$ to btc, withdraw them and exchange them elsewhere.

With that said, I'm still waiting for my btc withdrawal to process...
EDIT: Received Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 316
Merit: 250
OK, so after BitStamp was hacked, people have been posting posts over posts and threads over threads about it and even making scam accusations about the exchange. Some even called it the next Gox. But all of a sudden all threads have gone silent after the exchange came back online just fine, within a small time window.

No problem.

At least I would take this opportunity to actually give some postive feedback to BitStamp team who worked hard and delivered on my personal expectations after the hack. They made sure to keep the users informed of the progress via Twitter too. And they surely didn't "Gox". I have an account with them and thankfully I didn't lose anything because I had emptied my balance in September but in future I'm gonna trust them as good as I did previously - or even more than that, because I'm sure their security is now far better than what they had before. And they mean serious business.

They're here to stay and make Bitcoin ecosystem better.

Since you brought it up:
1.  The "small window" was a business week.
2.  No confirmed fiat withdrawals.
3.  No [previously promised] audits => fractional reserve possible.
4.  Re. "better security":  As long as you're sure.

TL;DR: Let's not start stroking them just yet.

They cannot start processing fiat withdrawals until Monday when the banks open.
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 254
OK, so after BitStamp was hacked, people have been posting posts over posts and threads over threads about it and even making scam accusations about the exchange. Some even called it the next Gox. But all of a sudden all threads have gone silent after the exchange came back online just fine, within a small time window.

No problem.

At least I would take this opportunity to actually give some postive feedback to BitStamp team who worked hard and delivered on my personal expectations after the hack. They made sure to keep the users informed of the progress via Twitter too. And they surely didn't "Gox". I have an account with them and thankfully I didn't lose anything because I had emptied my balance in September but in future I'm gonna trust them as good as I did previously - or even more than that, because I'm sure their security is now far better than what they had before. And they mean serious business.

They're here to stay and make Bitcoin ecosystem better.

Since you brought it up:
1.  The "small window" was a business week.
2.  No confirmed fiat withdrawals.
3.  No [previously promised] audits => fractional reserve possible.
4.  Re. "better security":  As long as you're sure.

TL;DR: Let's not start stroking them just yet.
sgk
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1002
!! HODL !!
OK, so after BitStamp was hacked, people have been posting posts over posts and threads over threads about it and even making scam accusations about the exchange. Some even called it the next Gox. But all of a sudden all threads have gone silent after the exchange came back online just fine, within a small time window.

No problem.

At least I would take this opportunity to actually give some postive feedback to BitStamp team who worked hard and delivered on my personal expectations after the hack. They made sure to keep the users informed of the progress via Twitter too. And they surely didn't "Gox". I have an account with them and thankfully I didn't lose anything because I had emptied my balance in September but in future I'm gonna trust them as good as I did previously - or even more than that, because I'm sure their security is now far better than what they had before. And they mean serious business.

They're here to stay and make Bitcoin ecosystem better.

Kudos to team BitStamp.

I'm sure many of you won't agree with me, but this is just my opinion, and you have yours.
sr. member
Activity: 316
Merit: 250
Bitcoin was supposed to be decentralized, but people flocked almost entirely to a single exchange
Lips sealed
Inform yourself before making stupid comments: http://bitcoinity.org/markets/list
 Roll Eyes

Yup, seems to be plenty of exchanges that people are using.

http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin/#markets

hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
I got Satoshi's avatar!
Bitcoin was supposed to be decentralized, but people flocked almost entirely to a single exchange
Lips sealed
Inform yourself before making stupid comments: http://bitcoinity.org/markets/list
 Roll Eyes
hero member
Activity: 1666
Merit: 565
hero member
Activity: 994
Merit: 500
Bitcoin was supposed to be decentralized, but people flocked almost entirely to a single exchange
Lips sealed
legendary
Activity: 889
Merit: 1000
Will bitstamp ever come back online after this?

yes
sr. member
Activity: 296
Merit: 250


Now, there are not a million options here:
1. Bitstamp pays $5M with the fees they charged. That's tough, because they had about $1.5M worth of trading each day. At a 0.3% average, that gives $4500 per day. It would take them 1111 days of such fees to pay for those $5M, running costs non accounted for. Impossible.
2. They get $5M from their insurance. I've been working with insurers for such matters myself. Can't find one that would do that, so I'd bet they weren't insured for such a hack.
3. They get $5M from investors. That's tricky. New investors won't be stepping into this mess, so that leaves the previous VC that brought $10M. But this money was probably spent. If not, why bringing it in in the first place? Maybe they'd add $5M to protect the $10M they invested prior to the hack, but that's a dangerous move. Not impossible, but doubtful...
4. They run on fractional reserves. Easy, as long as 88% of the funds remain there.

On which option would you bet?



I think your numbers are very misleading. At a price of $300, thats 5k coins a day. Most of the time they are doing significiantly higher volumes than this and the price was higher. I think you could reasonably double your volume estimate and the average price for last year for a more reasonable estimate, quadrupling your total, and quartering you time estimate. Not impossible.

Agreed.  

The average weekly volume for 2014 was ~BTC 96 000 (~BTC13 700 per day) . (Based on raw data from http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/bitstampUSD)
0.3% x2 of 96 000 * 52 =BTC29 952 in fees.  I'm not sure about the 0.3% number.  The times two is because it's charged on both sides of the trade.
You are assuming they have to repay the full loss.  We can reduce the loss by any safety margins they have already, although they may wish to re-establish those (at a higher level?).
The fee number needs to reduce by operating expenses.

So we have 19 000 less what they have already vs 30 000 less opex.

Where it lands up after those adjustments is anyone's guess.

If they had been converting to USD at higher prices then that would reduce their burden significantly (if they can buy back at current low prices).


And Bitstamp's profits from selling ripples needs adding to the total. You could buy ripples directly from Bitstamp at a price they decided, which was always way above the going market price.
sr. member
Activity: 362
Merit: 262


Now, there are not a million options here:
1. Bitstamp pays $5M with the fees they charged. That's tough, because they had about $1.5M worth of trading each day. At a 0.3% average, that gives $4500 per day. It would take them 1111 days of such fees to pay for those $5M, running costs non accounted for. Impossible.
2. They get $5M from their insurance. I've been working with insurers for such matters myself. Can't find one that would do that, so I'd bet they weren't insured for such a hack.
3. They get $5M from investors. That's tricky. New investors won't be stepping into this mess, so that leaves the previous VC that brought $10M. But this money was probably spent. If not, why bringing it in in the first place? Maybe they'd add $5M to protect the $10M they invested prior to the hack, but that's a dangerous move. Not impossible, but doubtful...
4. They run on fractional reserves. Easy, as long as 88% of the funds remain there.

On which option would you bet?



I think your numbers are very misleading. At a price of $300, thats 5k coins a day. Most of the time they are doing significiantly higher volumes than this and the price was higher. I think you could reasonably double your volume estimate and the average price for last year for a more reasonable estimate, quadrupling your total, and quartering you time estimate. Not impossible.

Agreed.  

The average weekly volume for 2014 was ~BTC 96 000 (~BTC13 700 per day) . (Based on raw data from http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/bitstampUSD)
0.3% x2 of 96 000 * 52 =BTC29 952 in fees.  I'm not sure about the 0.3% number.  The times two is because it's charged on both sides of the trade.
You are assuming they have to repay the full loss.  We can reduce the loss by any safety margins they have already, although they may wish to re-establish those (at a higher level?).
The fee number needs to reduce by operating expenses.

So we have 19 000 less what they have already vs 30 000 less opex.

Where it lands up after those adjustments is anyone's guess.

If they had been converting to USD at higher prices then that would reduce their burden significantly (if they can buy back at current low prices).
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000


Now, there are not a million options here:
1. Bitstamp pays $5M with the fees they charged. That's tough, because they had about $1.5M worth of trading each day. At a 0.3% average, that gives $4500 per day. It would take them 1111 days of such fees to pay for those $5M, running costs non accounted for. Impossible.
2. They get $5M from their insurance. I've been working with insurers for such matters myself. Can't find one that would do that, so I'd bet they weren't insured for such a hack.
3. They get $5M from investors. That's tricky. New investors won't be stepping into this mess, so that leaves the previous VC that brought $10M. But this money was probably spent. If not, why bringing it in in the first place? Maybe they'd add $5M to protect the $10M they invested prior to the hack, but that's a dangerous move. Not impossible, but doubtful...
4. They run on fractional reserves. Easy, as long as 88% of the funds remain there.

On which option would you bet?



I think your numbers are very misleading. At a price of $300, thats 5k coins a day. Most of the time they are doing significiantly higher volumes than this and the price was higher. I think you could reasonably double your volume estimate and the average price for last year for a more reasonable estimate, quadrupling your total, and quartering you time estimate. Not impossible.
legendary
Activity: 2338
Merit: 1035

Doesn't this prove that bitstamp controlled the address which the hacked coins were sent to?
legendary
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1000
Option 4 seems most likely.

Smells like fractional reserves...


Bitstamp was audited by Mike Hearn, a Bitcoin dev back in May 2014. He said that everything seemed OK and all the funds were fully backed in their cold storage wallets. This was just 8 months ago and I'd be surprised if the situation has changed since then.

Yeah, well... This was before the hack, huh...

Now, there are not a million options here:
1. Bitstamp pays $5M with the fees they charged. That's tough, because they had about $1.5M worth of trading each day. At a 0.3% average, that gives $4500 per day. It would take them 1111 days of such fees to pay for those $5M, running costs non accounted for. Impossible.
2. They get $5M from their insurance. I've been working with insurers for such matters myself. Can't find one that would do that, so I'd bet they weren't insured for such a hack.
3. They get $5M from investors. That's tricky. New investors won't be stepping into this mess, so that leaves the previous VC that brought $10M. But this money was probably spent. If not, why bringing it in in the first place? Maybe they'd add $5M to protect the $10M they invested prior to the hack, but that's a dangerous move. Not impossible, but doubtful...
4. They run on fractional reserves. Easy, as long as 88% of the funds remain there.

On which option would you bet?


sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
when they dump all those Bitcoins

Why would Bitcoin enthusiasts dump their coins? They must be very interested in and involved with Bitcoin so much so that they made the effort to figure out a way to steal them.

why do a thief rob you off, he's in so much love with the dollar that he finds a way to rob you?  Cheesy
hero member
Activity: 966
Merit: 1003
when they dump all those Bitcoins

Why would Bitcoin enthusiasts dump their coins? They must be very interested in and involved with Bitcoin so much so that they made the effort to figure out a way to steal them.
sr. member
Activity: 261
Merit: 250
4k left now.

Only 159 left.

One thing is sure, when they dump all those Bitcoins on other exchanges, they will push the price further down.
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
4k left now.
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