BITSTAMP frozen my 10 btc and asking years worth of signed address transactions

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: magneto on October 12, 2019, 07:22:13 AM

Why do they care that this was your gambling winnings? They are not the prosecutors nor the police, they have no proof of any wrongdoing on your side.

i'm not sure on the specifics in other countries, but the USA has strict federal laws prohibiting interstate gambling activity. to avoid liability, banks and payment processors avoid transmitting money on behalf of sportsbooks and gambling sites. this naturally extends to exchanges, which is why coinbase and gemini have policies against usage for gambling in their user agreements. in fact, bitstamp does include something about "illegal gambling operations" in its terms. if the OP were from the USA or a country with similar laws, i wouldn't be surprised to see account termination over it.

and that's what would happen on coinbase or gemini---they would just close his account and send him his funds. leave it to bitstamp to put the OP through hell and possibly steal his coins because he can't prove the source of every satoshi.

BitHodler

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on October 11, 2019, 08:32:34 PM

No one can be 100% trustworthy. I have seen vendors in Localbitcoins selling their old accounts to scammers and the latter using them to con unsuspecting users.

Bingo! I see that happen even here on non crypto marketplace sites. The first sign of trust (people think like that) is to avoid new accounts and only deal with older accounts---resulting in scammer offering big money for these older accounts.

People with older accounts who don't often list anything for sale will likely not reject an offer of a few hundred bucks for their account, especially since they can simply create a new one.

It provides scammers easy access to old accounts. By the time people no longer connect trustworthiness to old accounts, scammers will find other routes to gain people's trust and scam them. They are always a step ahead.

magneto

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This is insane. I knew that Bitstamp was always overboard with their KYC requests to the point that it's probably even required by law for them to do some of the things that they ask for, but never knew that they would peer into such private details of every single transaction that you make just so that you can withdraw what is rightfully yours.

What right do they have to ask for tax statements, your income, where you got funds from, and what you are going to use funds on? And what relevance does that even have in terms of them upholding a very simple KYC procedure?

Why do they care that this was your gambling winnings? They are not the prosecutors nor the police, they have no proof of any wrongdoing on your side.

malevolent

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on October 11, 2019, 08:32:34 PM

No one can be 100% trustworthy. I have seen vendors in Localbitcoins selling their old accounts to scammers and the latter using them to con unsuspecting users. EVen I had a few bad experiences with LBC, and my coins were returned only after I contacted the LBC admins. If you are talking about face-to-face transactions, then they are not only risky, but unsafe as well.

Yes, in-person = face-to-face. Never had a problem, know your surroundings, learn how to spot fakes, and if you live somewhere where violent crime is a concern be armed or bring an armed friend. I'd be more wary of receiving a bank transfer from a hijacked bank account and having my money frozen after releasing bitcoins to the fraudster.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: malevolent on October 09, 2019, 05:45:20 PM

Quote from: TheUltraElite on October 09, 2019, 05:11:14 AM

Bitstamp has been here for long time and them asking KYC with such strict details does make me wonder what juicy information they have obtained on the coins.

You may try to present a story in your way of describing but this is what I suspect has happened.

No, this is normal for bitstamp, they have been asking similar questions for >5 years now. Other exchanges are catching up with their intrusiveness. It's better to take your time to find a trustworthy person to make an exchange in-person.

No one can be 100% trustworthy. I have seen vendors in Localbitcoins selling their old accounts to scammers and the latter using them to con unsuspecting users. EVen I had a few bad experiences with LBC, and my coins were returned only after I contacted the LBC admins. If you are talking about face-to-face transactions, then they are not only risky, but unsafe as well.

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Quote from: mk4 on October 10, 2019, 10:18:18 AM

Quote from: Quidat on October 10, 2019, 06:51:07 AM

Quote from: mk4 on October 09, 2019, 11:08:07 PM

So in short those kind of requirements are just a test if the user would decide to forget those funds that he have? No surprising on any service on this market where
selective scamming or hold-up of funds into some number of users.If they do easily admit and processed out the withdrawals after mentioning some legal aspect then
you cant really avoid not to be suspicious with their modus.

Nah. It's more of fear mongering in the hopes of probably OP stop depositing funds from gambling sites(because most exchanges doesn't like this). If Bitstamp would be to attempt to start such a modus, for a business as big as their size, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be attempting to grab 10 BTC. If they would attempt to do so, it would definitely be a lot bigger than 10 BTC.

Yeah i got your point which is definitely right and well said, big business like this one will not really risk up to ruin their
reputation for mere amounts of BTC. Dont know why there are still people who arent that careful on sending out their funds
came from gambling sites where most service specially exchangers do have this typical terms or prohibition.
Lesson learned for those who arent fan on reading sites terms until they realize that they already violate when they already
experiencing some withdrawal issues.

mk4

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Quote from: Quidat on October 10, 2019, 06:51:07 AM

Quote from: mk4 on October 09, 2019, 11:08:07 PM

So in short those kind of requirements are just a test if the user would decide to forget those funds that he have? No surprising on any service on this market where
selective scamming or hold-up of funds into some number of users.If they do easily admit and processed out the withdrawals after mentioning some legal aspect then
you cant really avoid not to be suspicious with their modus.

Nah. It's more of fear mongering in the hopes of probably OP stop depositing funds from gambling sites(because most exchanges doesn't like this). If Bitstamp would be to attempt to start such a modus, for a business as big as their size, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be attempting to grab 10 BTC. If they would attempt to do so, it would definitely be a lot bigger than 10 BTC.

Quidat

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Quote from: mk4 on October 09, 2019, 11:08:07 PM

Quote from: gentlemand on October 09, 2019, 05:52:10 PM

Quote from: mk4 on October 09, 2019, 05:06:04 AM

That's a lot of information they're demanding lol. Unfortunately, it looks like they're just doing the typical AML procedures to make sure you didn't get your BTC somewhere illegal or whatever.

No bleedin' WAY is that typical. I've run plenty of stuff through Kraken and not once have they ever asked for anything other than the initial ID and proof of address and that was about four years ago now. I've never heard of Coinbase asking for any extra intrusive info. They either let you play or tell you to sod off. There's no hostage taking.

Bitstamp seem to specialise in asking for stuff that I've never, ever heard any 'real' financial institution asking for. Why the fuck would you give that to a bunch of anonymous Slovenes?

OP was not clever using open gambling funds. Most exchanges would've given him the boot for that. Good on him for getting one over on them.

I'd say it's typical, but I'd agree that it's just blown way out of proportion concerning the data they're asking for. While other exchanges might not be doing these sort of stuff, the hostage taking of funds is really not that rare based on my experience(not personally, based on what I've been reading throughout the years on various bitcoin communities). My guess, they're probably just trying to give out a bit of fear due to OP getting the funds from gambling. I mean, they immediately gave in when OP mentioned lawyers and stuff lol; so I don't think they probably intentionally made the data collecting mandatory.

So in short those kind of requirements are just a test if the user would decide to forget those funds that he have? No surprising on any service on this market where
selective scamming or hold-up of funds into some number of users.If they do easily admit and processed out the withdrawals after mentioning some legal aspect then
you cant really avoid not to be suspicious with their modus.

marky89

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Quote from: TheUltraElite on October 09, 2019, 05:11:14 AM

Bitstamp has been here for long time and them asking KYC with such strict details does make me wonder what juicy information they have obtained on the coins.

Where have you been? Bitstamp is notorious for freezing accounts and requiring DNA-level KYC. The complaints about them are rampant. It's at the top of my list of exchanges to avoid.

Read through some of these threads:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitstamp-holding-my-funds-5172859
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitstamp-not-allowing-withdrawal-1928777
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitstamp-kyc-out-of-control-1818079
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitstamp-blocked-my-account-300k-held-no-response-be-aware-of-this-scam-2214456
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitstamp-warnings-and-rejoinders-5064228

TheUltraElite

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Quote from: malevolent on October 09, 2019, 05:45:20 PM

No, this is normal for bitstamp, they have been asking similar questions for >5 years now. Other exchanges are catching up with their intrusiveness. It's better to take your time to find a trustworthy person to make an exchange in-person.

I would be extremely uncomfortable with having to deal with a person face to face but its better with a P2P exchange like LBC.

I always feel it to be better if governments would allow trading in crypto and that country people use an exchange where they can verify themselves to buy and sell. As for the OP this is not important but I see your point here. The more the governments try to supress crypto the more AML/KYC problems will arise because of non-compliance from public.

mk4

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Quote from: gentlemand on October 09, 2019, 05:52:10 PM

Quote from: mk4 on October 09, 2019, 05:06:04 AM

That's a lot of information they're demanding lol. Unfortunately, it looks like they're just doing the typical AML procedures to make sure you didn't get your BTC somewhere illegal or whatever.

No bleedin' WAY is that typical. I've run plenty of stuff through Kraken and not once have they ever asked for anything other than the initial ID and proof of address and that was about four years ago now. I've never heard of Coinbase asking for any extra intrusive info. They either let you play or tell you to sod off. There's no hostage taking.

Bitstamp seem to specialise in asking for stuff that I've never, ever heard any 'real' financial institution asking for. Why the fuck would you give that to a bunch of anonymous Slovenes?

OP was not clever using open gambling funds. Most exchanges would've given him the boot for that. Good on him for getting one over on them.

I'd say it's typical, but I'd agree that it's just blown way out of proportion concerning the data they're asking for. While other exchanges might not be doing these sort of stuff, the hostage taking of funds is really not that rare based on my experience(not personally, based on what I've been reading throughout the years on various bitcoin communities). My guess, they're probably just trying to give out a bit of fear due to OP getting the funds from gambling. I mean, they immediately gave in when OP mentioned lawyers and stuff lol; so I don't think they probably intentionally made the data collecting mandatory.

malevolent

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Quote from: gentlemand on October 09, 2019, 05:52:10 PM

No bleedin' WAY is that typical. I've run plenty of stuff through Kraken and not once have they ever asked for anything other than the initial ID and proof of address and that was about four years ago now. I've never heard of Coinbase asking for any extra intrusive info. They either let you play or tell you to sod off. There's no hostage taking.

Bitstamp seem to specialise in asking for stuff that I've never, ever heard any 'real' financial institution asking for. Why the fuck would you give that to a bunch of anonymous Slovenes?

OP was not clever using open gambling funds. Most exchanges would've given him the boot for that. Good on him for getting one over on them.

In this case it doesn't matter that he used gambling funds, Coinbase will close your account for that due to some silly US anti-gambling laws/regulations, Bitstamp is unaffected by that, as you can see they never said anything about it, nor are they closing his account, but they are strict about knowing the source/trail of all of your money/coins at their exchange, stricter in fact than any legacy financial institution.

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Quote from: mk4 on October 09, 2019, 05:06:04 AM

That's a lot of information they're demanding lol. Unfortunately, it looks like they're just doing the typical AML procedures to make sure you didn't get your BTC somewhere illegal or whatever.

No bleedin' WAY is that typical. I've run plenty of stuff through Kraken and not once have they ever asked for anything other than the initial ID and proof of address and that was about four years ago now. I've never heard of Coinbase asking for any extra intrusive info. They either let you play or tell you to sod off. There's no hostage taking.

Bitstamp seem to specialise in asking for stuff that I've never, ever heard any 'real' financial institution asking for. Why the fuck would you give that to a bunch of anonymous Slovenes?

OP was not clever using open gambling funds. Most exchanges would've given him the boot for that. Good on him for getting one over on them.

malevolent

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Quote from: TheUltraElite on October 09, 2019, 05:11:14 AM

Bitstamp has been here for long time and them asking KYC with such strict details does make me wonder what juicy information they have obtained on the coins.

You may try to present a story in your way of describing but this is what I suspect has happened.

No, this is normal for bitstamp, they have been asking similar questions for >5 years now. Other exchanges are catching up with their intrusiveness. It's better to take your time to find a trustworthy person to make an exchange in-person.

boltz

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First time I hear a story like yours from Bitstamp as there are my favorite crypto exchange and never had any problems with them. Anyway before your problem was solved I'm sure that you had a rough day as 10 btcs are a big amount if money no matter what but asking for a signed address is too much , what if you didn't hold any ? They should have any methods in longer for you to prove that you're the owner besides ID and all that KYC.

Anyway I'm glad that your problem was solved and they admit they did wrong but there is a still big WHY this happened on Bitstamp ...next time keep your coins into your personal wallets.

Mpamaegbu

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Quote from: Forgotoldaccount on October 09, 2019, 08:27:22 AM

Thanks yes. They did reply this after I asked they cancel the frozen withdrawal::
Thank you for your reply. As per your request, your pending withdrawals have been cancelled.

Please note that, in order to properly process your future transactions, we are going to have to require you to provide us with the previously requested information and documentation.

We look forward to your reply.

Anyway, let this thread serve as a warning to anyone using exchanges that unless you have a complete evidence trail of where your coins are from you are liable to lose them

You were lucky to have escaped by the tail. It was obvious they didn't want to release your cash. Such scammy attitude is what makes people scream blue murder when anyone wants to leave tokens/coins on an exchange. That mark of generalization on what fraudulent activities exchanges go into is what causes distrust in traders. You made your withdrawal through Ripple and it scaled through. That means they had a surveillance on your 10Bitcoin.

kryptqnick

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Quote from: Forgotoldaccount on October 09, 2019, 04:23:38 AM

I would like to update this thread now as I am EXTREMELY lucky they have made a mistake.
I told them I'm consulting a lawyer and to cancel my pending withdrawals as they were insistant on these informations.
Then somehow (even though they told me no transactions will be processed until they receive these) I did an XRP ripple withdrawal and it was processed instantlyl

Congratulations! It's great that it worked out for you. You should celebrate that you got such a big amount of money back, even though it was not the likely outcome of this situation. Bitstamp is a company with a good reputation, so I don't think they were trying to scam you. However, their KYC requirements are very serious (though the amount of money you were trying to withdraw was a very big one as well). In fact, if you just google 'Bitstamp KYC' you'll see that people have been complaining about crazy KYC questions since 2017. Next time make you're clear about KYC policies before you deposit any money on an exchange.

ivakar

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I guess the point was just to steal your btc
cause for the question - how did you obtain your first BTC, you may say that you've mined it.
And what documents for confirmation would they ask in that case?!!!
Pool transaction, or what?
that is really looks like some people inside exchange decided to do some shady business Angry

buwaytress

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Good update, glad you got it all out and, yeah, I know it doesn't need repeating, but for the sake of anyone at all still contemplating this:

Never store your assets on an exchange. Period.

If you love the way you can control all your money. If you want to sleep at night and never worry your funds can be seized, frozen or take over, you must be the only one with access to it. No exceptions.

bryant.coleman

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This is very disturbing. Why do they need to know the origin of the cryptocurrency holdings, and that too from many years back? For example, I have several transactions which are linked to the now defunct exchanges such as Wex.nz, Cryptopia and BTC-e. How I am supposed to get the transaction details for the withdrawals I made from these exchanges?

I can provide them with the KYC details such as passport copy or national ID card. But signed message.etc can be very difficult, as I no longer have access to some of the wallets that I had used earlier. Anyway, many thanks for posting this thread. I would be careful enough to not deposit any of my BTC in this exchange. I think I would have to depend on peer to peer platforms now to trade my coins.

Topic: BITSTAMP frozen my 10 btc and asking years worth of signed address transactions (Read 478 times)