Topic: ★ BTC-RAFFLE.COM ★▐ Provably Fair ▐ Referral System ▐ Player VS Player ▐ - page 3. (Read 4335 times)

Mr. Raffle,

I wonder if you are mature enough to answer these three questions....

Is btc-raffle provably fair right now?

Was btc-raffle provably fair 3 days ago?

Was btc-raffle provably fair 1 week ago?

*sigh*

its the bustabit troll please go away.

Thanks

*sigh*

He did not understand a single thing about all what we said before.

And before we see an username like '6a9MCc26PF5x2' playing games. x)

Ok we changed from milliseconds to using the players names. So there is no way for us to cheat like you are claiming we can.

Enjoy

If I ask you the time to the nearest millisecond but you add on 3 milliseconds to the true answer, do you think I would notice?

I wouldn't. 3 milliseconds is too small a difference for anyone to notice.

I don't know why you can't understand this.

I did not say that "no one can cheat the site", I said "only the site can cheat, not the players".

LOL it is your truth!

I just can't believe such empty answers and I am really begging now that dooglus will stop helping you because guys like you should learn the hard way

The site can not cheat with the millisecond timestamp if we did all the members would notice.

Just like your dice site people will notice if you fake the hash.

Thanks for admitting no one can cheat the site, its about time you start telling the truth. 

I have already listed my reasons for not stealing from your customers:

  1) I'm not a thief
  2) It doesn't work if the site itself is already stealing from them
  3) The amounts involved are currently too small to bother with
  4) With the millisecond timestamp in place only the site can cheat, not the players
  5) I have no reason to prove anything to you

 like i have been saying you can't cheat the system or they would. What they are saying is like 1 in a million chance. If they could cheat the system so easy they would just to prove the fact.

Many companies pay good money to incentivize reporting security vulnerabilities rather than abusing them. dooglus and a bunch of others have been very patient (far more than you deserve in my opinion) and given you very detailed and precise explanations of your site's flaws without demanding anything in return. And now here you are actually complaining that they came to you instead of trying to steal from your customers. This is just precious.

LOL he is the EXPERT on this!

"Steps 3 and 4 can run in a tight loop on your server in a tiny fraction of a second. Nobody will see it happening. It's not about my connection speed."

For sure you connection is causing issues on your end. Did you watch the youtube video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RTjeQbHtDk&feature=youtu.be
Please let me know.


Everybody who is following this thread already understands what I am saying and sees that I am right. You have some kind of a blind spot and can't or won't see it. I don't need to steal from your customers to prove that what I am saying is right.

How is that a reply? i will ask you again.

When you said"
1) I wouldn't be cheating you, I would be cheating your customers. You still get your 1% cut. It's rude of you to invite us to try to cheat your customers.

I though you wanted to help the community? wouldn't you be helping them by proving your theory is right?  



I have given more than enough information for any reasonably intelligent reader to see why your game isn't provably fair. There is no burden of proof upon me here.

Thanks looks like you really care about "helping the community" like you said before.


I am very different than the house. I don't get to pick which txid to use, or which particular millisecond to claim the game ended during.

You can verify each millisecond and txid to make sure it's legit.


I can say it already, and have done. Many times. You don't understand, and I get that. I don't think you ever will. I think you should really find something else to do, or at least find somebody qualified to take care of the technical aspects of your site.


You have really only speculated if we broadcast a txid it would help us using a house account to win the pot. The fact is still the winning millisecond + the winning txid would have to be known. i see what your saying we could know the outcome. But you would have to make a real bitcoin transaction (costing $0.04), and generate the txid that would make our house account win, all this would have to be within seconds.

 Everyone is free to check every txid used. It does not make any sense to do all this, hope to get lucky and the txid is broadcasted at the exact second we want it to. What if someone buys a ticket at the last second, resets the clock, now we need to do another $0.04 fee to rig it?  to do all that, atleast at the time being when the average profit is less then a transaction fee it makes no sense to rig it.  

So maybe you can be less hostile.


I don't think I can help you any more than I already have done. I'm sorry. Find your smartest techy friend. Sit down with them and have them go through both threads with you. Have them explain everything to you and make sure you understand it.

See your not here to help anyone your hear to make other people look bad.

Why not just simply say how we should pick the winner and we will use your method.  

I thought you were the expert on this?

Steps 3 and 4 can run in a tight loop on your server in a tiny fraction of a second. Nobody will see it happening. It's not about my connection speed.


Everybody who is following this thread already understands what I am saying and sees that I am right. You have some kind of a blind spot and can't or won't see it. I don't need to steal from your customers to prove that what I am saying is right.


I have given more than enough information for any reasonably intelligent reader to see why your game isn't provably fair. There is no burden of proof upon me here.


I am very different than the house. I don't get to pick which txid to use, or which particular millisecond to claim the game ended during.


I can say it already, and have done. Many times. You don't understand, and I get that. I don't think you ever will. I think you should really find something else to do, or at least find somebody qualified to take care of the technical aspects of your site.


I don't think I can help you any more than I already have done. I'm sorry. Find your smartest techy friend. Sit down with them and have them go through both threads with you. Have them explain everything to you and make sure you understand it.

Response to your edit:

Edit: Earlier you said we should stop talking about whether you can cheat or not. But talking about whether you can cheat is exactly the same as talking about whether the site is provably fair. When you say "this site is provably fair" you are saying "there is no way we can cheat you without you being able to notice". Changing the thread title to be "99% provably fair" is meaningless. Nothing is 99% provable - it is either provable or it isn't. Just like you can't be 99% pregnant.


The fact is your claims have not been proven, i have asked you to prove what your saying, but you have failed to do so.

You are no different then the house, if you think you can cheat the system then DO IT.

Once you have done that then you can say its not provably fair.

Or like i have asked before tell us some other way if you are so experienced in this field.

We would love to hear from you about how to take it from 99% to 100%

If you care like you say you do for the community then prove you can cheat the system, or tell us a different method. 
 

I think the issue is like you said your connection is extremely slow, you are seeing the site not how everyone else is seeing it. Because soon as the game ends the winner is picked, there is no way to go back to step 3

Just uploaded this video so you can see how the site works in real time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RTjeQbHtDk&feature=youtu.be

When you said"
1) I wouldn't be cheating you, I would be cheating your customers. You still get your 1% cut. It's rude of you to invite us to try to cheat your customers.

I though you wanted to help the community? wouldn't you be helping them by proving your theory is right? 

  1. buy a ticket
  2. wait for the game to end
  3. check if you win if you use the current time in milliseconds as the client seed
  4. if you do, go ahead and win, else add 1 millisecond to the time and go back to step 3

Doing this you win every time. Sometimes you will use a timestamp that is 10 milliseconds later than the actual end time. That's 1/100th of a second. Nobody will notice.

Could you explain in detail the steps for us to cheat? as you said we are picking the client seed so unpredictably?

For me there are three reasons:

1) I wouldn't be cheating you, I would be cheating your customers. You still get your 1% cut. It's rude of you to invite us to try to cheat your customers.

2) I can't be sure that you're not already cheating. If you are, my attempts at cheating won't work.

3) Nobody is playing at a level that makes it worth while.


Since you started hashing the time in milliseconds into the result, it is no longer possible for players to cheat. Now only you can cheat.


I can't while you are picking the client seed so unpredictably. But you still could.

Edit: Earlier you said we should stop talking about whether you can cheat or not. But talking about whether you can cheat is exactly the same as talking about whether the site is provably fair. When you say "this site is provably fair" you are saying "there is no way we can cheat you without you being able to notice". Changing the thread title to be "99% provably fair" is meaningless. Nothing is 99% provable - it is either provable or it isn't. Just like you can't be 99% pregnant.

While the described attack is relatively easy, there is still some effort involved and considering your game's current revenue it is probably not worth the time of anyone that has the knowledge necessary to carry it out. But if your game gains any traction and your system remains in this form it is virtually guaranteed that someone will attempt to take advantage of it, if only to prove a point.

Another point to consider is that cheating the system is not possible for an external attacker in the event that the house is already cheating by picking beneficial transactions.

I still would like to see someone cheat the system, all the talk is about how we can cheat the system if it is so easy why isn't everyone coming to the site and cheating you could be making all most 2 BTC a day ($800+) a day?

The thing is taking the client seed determining what its going to end at, then broadcasting that exact txid on blockchain is too hard.

But you have pointed out how its not 100% full proof we understand that now. But i still challenge you to cheat the system your self (as you claim its so easy to do)  or give us a better method.