Topic: [BTC-TC] Deprived Mining Speculation (DMS) - page 32. (Read 198958 times)

Yes, I mentioned that above in posting 1330.  Sucks for me if this happens as a US citizen.

There's an announcement on btct.co and Litecoin Global that CIPHERMINE intend to buy burnside's code and relaunch both exchanges in December.

The CIPHERMINE.B1 dividend came through before I got the transfer processed.

Total dividend was :

2013-09-29 22:00:15    30833    ฿ 0.00004700    ฿ 1.449151

928 of those bonds were sent in transfer - but the dividend had already been paid.  As they transferred their shares in a lot earlier today, they should have already had the bonds and got the dividend on them.  So 0.043616 BTC is being sent in a 2nd payment to the person who transferred in for a sell back earlier.

Here's the current updated assets + details for redemptions.  NAV/U dropped less than usual because the CIPHERMINE bond paid just under half of today's MINING dividend.

BTC Balance (BTC-TC)   507.7934491
9071 LTC-ATF.B1    90.71000000
CIPHERMINE Bonds    299.05000000
Coinlenders CD 27/9    203.64459670
Just-Dice Balance    153.86136722
TOTAL ASSETS    1,255.05941306
   
Outstanding MINING   172500
Outstanding SELLING   172500
Outstanding PURCHASE   14397
Effective Units   186897

NAV/U    0.00671525
NAV/U Excluding Ciphermine    0.00511517
Ciphermine per unit    0.16000792
Units per Ciphermine    6.24969069

Been out most of the day - the dividends went out on schedule however.

BTC Balance (BTC-TC)   539.3699072
9071 LTC-ATF.B1    90.71000000
CIPHERMINE Bonds    308.33000000
Coinlenders CD 27/9    203.64459670
Just-Dice Balance    153.86136722
TOTAL ASSETS    1,295.91587110
   
Outstanding MINING   178300
Outstanding SELLING   178300
Outstanding PURCHASE   14397
Effective Units   192697
   
Block reward   25
Difficulty   148,819,200
Hashes per MINING   5000000
   
Daily Dividend    0.00001690
50 days (Min Liquid)    0.00084483
100 days (Forced Close)    0.00168966
365 days (Buyback)    0.00616724
405 days (IPO)    0.00684311
400 days (Post SELLING div)    0.00675862
410 days (Pre SELLING div)    0.00692759
   
NAV Post MINING Div    1,292.65995462
NAV/U Post MINING Div    0.00670825
Days Dividend Post Div   397.02
SELLING Dividend    -         
NAV Post SELLING Div    1,292.65995462
NAV/U Post Selling Div    0.00670825

Will post the new buyback rates in about 5 minutes - the CIPHERMINE.B1 dividend payment is due to arrive in a few minutes so will wait until that's in so it's included in the buyback.

There was one transfer back whilst I was out - made before today's dividend payment - will be processing that now at the old rate (i.e. before deduction of today's MINING dividend from NAV/U).

Runek's estimate looks to be purely based on the apparent increase in hashrate since the last difficulty change, i.e., 20.3%. Given that we are still well under half (740) of the blocks hashed for this difficulty, it is very likely (though not certain) that the actual increase will be substantially higher than 20.3%. If I had to take a WAG I'd say it'll end up being 30-33%. That'd put it at about 10 days, i.e., the 5th of October.

Deprived, I just read the post about a group trying to buy Burnsides' software and host it in the UK.  I live in the US which would disallow my participation with this new exchange. 

When is the latest I can sell my DMS shares, if DMS is not listed on Bitfunder or Havelock?

Would that be October 30th?
Thank you for your time.

Great! Thanks for the answer and link.

The SELLING / PURCHASE dividend is not paid every 10 days, it's paid after every difficulty change. The last times it was mostly a 10-11 days cycle, but it could be more days if hash power increases less.

But it looks like next change will be in 6 or 7 days, take a look here: http://runeks.dk/bitcoin/diff.txt

Dividends will be paid until end of October, only trading will stop on October 7.

I was wondering if you would be performing another 10 day dividend for PURCHASE and SELLING before BTCT closes?  The tenth day would be Oct. 6th. 

Some of you may notice that I've made a post elsewhere confirming that I'm in discussions with others (including Kate from CIPHERMINE) about creation of a new exchange - possibly purchasing and using the code from BTC-TC.

It is NOT my intention at this point to wait for that - I am still looking to relist elsewhere as soon as possible.  It potentially exists as a fall-back position if we're unable to list elsewhere but is in no way my plan.

I felt I ought to clarify that - as I didn't want investors thinking there was any possibility that I'd try to stay unlisted for a few months waiting for an exchange that may not even ever come to exist.  As soon as I have news on any move (or lack of ability to move) I'll update you all promptly.

I should add (as I mention I've been in discussion with Kate) that I have no doubt whatsoever that Kate intends to continue to operate CIPHERMINE and to honour the bonds.  The reasons I can't offer cash redemptions is now that if I do I'll accelerate DMS into a position of having a larger percentage of assets tied up in them than was agreed in the motion.  It's the lack of liquidity on them that's the problem, not a question of whether they'll still have face value when relisted.  Until they're relisted somewhere the lack of liquidity DOES reduce their value to us - as ideally we need to reduce the percentage of our assets tied up in them not increase it.  As I believe it's almost certain they'll relist before 3 months pass it makes no sense for DMS to ask for them to be bought back in 3 months time - and surrender all dividends in the meantime.  Until BTC-TC announced closure they were working precisely as intended - paying us interest AND selling on the market at a rate I was happy with at a price slightly above what we paid.

Not until either:

1.  They're liquid and can be sold at face value.
2.  They form less than ~18% of total capital : which can only happen if/when we relist and get new sales.
3.  A very convincing guarantee of imminent liquidity is provided.

At present they're slightly over 20% which is fine by what was agreed but will cease to be fine after the next SELLING dividend.  Redeeming for all cash would increase that percentage.  If taken to extremes and most people cashed out with all cash then we'd end up with only the bonds left - and be unable to pay dividends.  Which is why that percentage can't be increased.

I'd offer an all cash option valuing them at whatever the first large bid was on market.

Because the fund SHOULD be selling some of them now (especially if people want to cash out all in cash) I can only value them for the purposes of cashing out at whatever they'll sell for on the market.  Which at present looks like being my own personal bid for 10k of them at .006 (which represents a price-point I'm personally happy to buy a decent chunk at - and give up my own liquidity for a likely 65% profit in a few months time).

In short you can't expect anyone else (including DMS) to buy them at .01 when you plainly value them a lot lower than that yourself.  And if DMS redeems in all cash then that effectively means I'm buying your ones of them at around .01 on behalf of everyone else - and likely they don't want that (or there'd be lots of bids above my .006).

The following statement by Kate regarding Ciphermine bonds seems promising:

If her update brings more good news, do you plan on reinstating the full NAV/U*.99 option?

Everyone is allowed to do 1 redemption - even if it was only 1 share of PURCHASE (or 1 each of MINING+SELLING).  So anyone who wants to cash out can.  You'd need to do the math yourself to work out if it's better just to sell into orders on the market (if you have PURCHASE the bot still runs to convert them to MINING/SELLING).

Do remember I cant't cash out unmatched MINING or SELLING (it would break there being the same number of each in circulation).

Do you mind transferring 24 shares or is that too small of an amount deprived? Thanks in advance!

BTC Balance (BTC-TC)   570.6502294
9071 LTC-ATF.B1    90.71000000
CIPHERMINE Bonds    317.05000000
Coinlenders CD 27/9    203.64459670
Just-Dice Balance    153.86136722
TOTAL ASSETS    1,335.91619333
   
Outstanding MINING   183750
Outstanding SELLING   183750
Outstanding PURCHASE   14397
Effective Units   198147
   
Block reward   25
Difficulty   148,819,200
Hashes per MINING   5000000
   
Daily Dividend    0.00001690
50 days (Min Liquid)    0.00084483
100 days (Forced Close)    0.00168966
365 days (Buyback)    0.00616724
405 days (IPO)    0.00684311
400 days (Post SELLING div)    0.00675862
410 days (Pre SELLING div)    0.00692759
   
NAV Post MINING Div    1,332.56819060
NAV/U Post MINING Div    0.00672515
Days Dividend Post Div   398.02
SELLING Dividend    -         
NAV Post SELLING Div    1,332.56819060
NAV/U Post Selling Div    0.00672515

-----------

NAV/U    0.00672515
NAV/U Excluding Ciphermine    0.00512507
Ciphermine per unit    0.16000747
Units per Ciphermine    6.24970825

Note that there IS actually a much lower number of PURCHASE/M+S Pairs that can be redeemed with very little waste.  25 gives pretty much exactly 4 CIPHERMINE.B1 - so all multiples of 25 are as optimal as you can get below 6249.

BTC-TC is down at present (getting xcoind errors) - so dividend and report will be delayed until burnside fixes it (dividend hadn't been scheduled yet - was just about to do it - but even if it had it would fail).

I have one redemption to do before that as well (so that report is accurate).  First got the error message trying to send the BTC for that redemption - then whole site died on me.

Just found out about this recently, will have to check the relevant thread.

Even if you sold the ciphermine into bids at 80% of their face value im sure youd still get back 90%+ of your investment when you add in the dividends (which are primarily a return of capital rather than sharing of profits).  And yes youd just send them to the btctc account DeprivedMining then wait - im at the pub at moment so wont be processing any until I get home (or tomorrow morning depending how much I drink).

I think you forgot to include dividends in your calculation.

Deprived how do I redeem my measly 43 shares of Purchase for said shares in Ciphermine? Do I just transfer the shares to your btctc acount? I just want to make sure I don't mess up and end up wasting more of my money.
Edit: Hmm I noticed that at the current redemption rate I would only get about 73.217 percent of my investment back. I guess I am just going to have to stick around, which in a way does make me happy as I do really like how well managed Deprived has been.