[BTC-TC] Virtual Community Exchange [CLOSED] - page 28.

crumbs

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 100

Quote from: Ytterbium on September 23, 2013, 07:24:01 AM

...
Is the US government going to start going after EVE online players? You can sell ISK for real money too.

Where do you draw the line between "video game money" and "real money"?

Probably at the point where everyone involved calls it real money and the "it's all make-believe!1" argument gets repeatedly pwnt by the courts?

Deprived

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: Pierre on September 23, 2013, 07:37:30 AM

Deposits. Are they working? How many confirmations before my BTC shows up in my wallet?

They work fine on both exchanges - it's 3 confirmations for BTC-TC and 6 for LTC-Global.

radiumsoup

sr. member

Activity: 356

Merit: 255

Quote from: Ytterbium on September 23, 2013, 07:36:22 AM

Quote from: Puppet on September 23, 2013, 07:28:47 AM

Quote from: Ytterbium on September 23, 2013, 07:24:01 AM

Is the US government going to start going after EVE online players? You can sell ISK for real money too.

Where do you draw the line between "video game money" and "real money"?

Pirate tried that defense too, see how far that got him.

Well we don't know how far it will get him, his case is just getting started.

Quote

I dont play eve, so I dont know, there may well be legal issues, but the securities being traded on BF/BTCT relate directly to real world companies and operations, and non trivial ones for that. I dont see much grey zone to hide in.

BF isn't even in the US. What is it with people who think the SEC has global authority?

US law enforcement agencies have a tendency to overstep their bounds in almost everything they do. As for the SEC specifically:
https://www.sec.gov/about/offices/oia.shtml

/US citizen
//edit: wrong URL

Pierre

full member

Activity: 207

Merit: 100

Deposits. Are they working? How many confirmations before my BTC shows up in my wallet?

Ytterbium

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: thehun on September 23, 2013, 07:34:37 AM

There is something I don't understand: why close down the sites instead of selling it or giving it over to someone else? I'm sure there would be people interested in continuing the venture and even paying some money for the takeover.

Then they wouldn't get to be a drama queen.

Ytterbium

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: Puppet on September 23, 2013, 07:28:47 AM

Quote from: Ytterbium on September 23, 2013, 07:24:01 AM

Is the US government going to start going after EVE online players? You can sell ISK for real money too.

Where do you draw the line between "video game money" and "real money"?

Pirate tried that defense too, see how far that got him.

Well we don't know how far it will get him, his case is just getting started.

Quote

I dont play eve, so I dont know, there may well be legal issues, but the securities being traded on BF/BTCT relate directly to real world companies and operations, and non trivial ones for that. I dont see much grey zone to hide in.

BF isn't even in the US. What is it with people who think the SEC has global authority?

thehun

legendary

Activity: 1212

Merit: 1037

There is something I don't understand: why close down the sites instead of selling it or giving it over to someone else? I'm sure there would be people interested in continuing the venture and even paying some money for the takeover.

Puppet

legendary

Activity: 980

Merit: 1040

Quote from: Ytterbium on September 23, 2013, 07:24:01 AM

Is the US government going to start going after EVE online players? You can sell ISK for real money too.

Where do you draw the line between "video game money" and "real money"?

Pirate tried that defense too, see how far that got him.
I dont play eve, so I dont know, there may well be legal issues, but the securities being traded on BF/BTCT relate directly to real world companies and operations, and non trivial ones for that. I dont see much grey zone to hide in.

Ytterbium

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: BitCsByBit on September 23, 2013, 07:22:20 AM

burside should have locked the trading until all asset issuers respond to their share holders to prevent any panic selling.

Well, he obviously hasn't been to worried about that lately...

Ytterbium

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: Puppet on September 23, 2013, 05:46:19 AM

Let me make a guess.

The term ‘‘security’’ means any note, stock, treasury stock, security future, security-based swap, bond, debenture, evidence of indebtedness, certificate of interest or participation in any profit-sharing agreement,collateral-trust certificate,
preorganization certificate or subscription, transferable share,
investment contract, voting-trust certificate, certificate of deposit for a security, fractional undivided interest in oil, gas, or
other mineral rights, any put, call, straddle, option, or privilege
on any security, certificate of deposit, or group or index of securities (including any interest therein or based on the value
thereof), or any put, call, straddle, option, or privilege entered
into on a national securities exchange relating to foreign currency, or, in general, any interest or instrument commonly
known as a ‘‘security’’, or any certificate of interest or participation in, temporary or interim certificate for, receipt for, guarantee of, or warrant or right to subscribe to or purchase, any
of the foregoing
http://www.sec.gov/about/laws/sa33.pdf

How do you reckon, are btct shares and options not securities? And before you start claiming "its in bitcoin", it doesnt matter:

) The term ‘‘sale’’ or ‘‘sell’’ shall include every contract of
sale or disposition of a security or interest in a security, for
value. The term ‘‘offer to sell’’, ‘‘offer for sale’’, or ‘‘offer’’ shall
include every attempt or offer to dispose of, or solicitation of
an offer to buy, a security or interest in a security, for value

It doesnt say dollars. Bitcoins constitute value, the SEC has already established that in the Pirateat40 case.

Is the US government going to start going after EVE online players? You can sell ISK for real money too.

Where do you draw the line between "video game money" and "real money"?

BitCsByBit

sr. member

Activity: 252

Merit: 250

burside should have locked the trading until all asset issuers respond to their share holders to prevent any panic selling.

Rannasha

hero member

Activity: 728

Merit: 500

Quote from: desired_username on September 23, 2013, 07:13:19 AM

Quote from: Strange Vlad on September 23, 2013, 06:48:02 AM

Hey guys, how about we stop all the hating and insulting in this thread already?
Ethan is a nice guy, he has been very reliable and trustworthy, and he still is. He's just doing his best dealing with the extreme circumstances beyond his control. If he wanted to rip you off or anything, he would already do so long ago. Your panicking, hating and insulting don't contribute anything positive to the situation. So please be patient and STFU, would you? KTHX

The only question that really bothers me is why indeed not sell the website to someone trustworthy living in more some of the less regulated countries? I'm sure there are enough potential buyers to choose from.

+1.

Expressing hate won't do anything positive.

I would be interested on how to transfer my assets though. I suppose issuers should be in contact with us. Individually making contact is not very efficient in my opinion.

Keep an eye on the threads related to the assets you hold, some issuers have already made some statements on their plans.

wizzardTim

legendary

Activity: 1708

Merit: 1000

Reality is stranger than fiction

Will you transfer our assets (NEOBEE) elsewhere?

desired_username

hero member

Activity: 886

Merit: 1013

Quote from: Strange Vlad on September 23, 2013, 06:48:02 AM

Hey guys, how about we stop all the hating and insulting in this thread already?
Ethan is a nice guy, he has been very reliable and trustworthy, and he still is. He's just doing his best dealing with the extreme circumstances beyond his control. If he wanted to rip you off or anything, he would already do so long ago. Your panicking, hating and insulting don't contribute anything positive to the situation. So please be patient and STFU, would you? KTHX

The only question that really bothers me is why indeed not sell the website to someone trustworthy living in more some of the less regulated countries? I'm sure there are enough potential buyers to choose from.

+1.

Expressing hate won't do anything positive.

I would be interested on how to transfer my assets though. I suppose issuers should be in contact with us. Individually making contact is not very efficient in my opinion.

subwolf

newbie

Activity: 25

Merit: 0

Panic selling only causes you to make a big loss, in my case I'm holding onto my shares for a while to see if they can be transferred elsewhere without having to lose them all.

Puppet

legendary

Activity: 980

Merit: 1040

No, but its doesnt solve anything for anyone either.

Bitcycle

sr. member

Activity: 420

Merit: 250

Quote from: Puppet on September 23, 2013, 06:51:49 AM

Quote from: Strange Vlad on September 23, 2013, 06:48:02 AM

The only question that really bothers me is why indeed not sell the website to someone trustworthy living in more some of the less regulated countries? I'm sure there are enough potential buyers to choose from.

IANAL but just moving the website probably isnt going to be enough, as long as its accessible to (among others) US customers.
Moreover the asset issuers based in just about any industrialized country would still be breaking the law by issuing unregulated securities.

That's not Burnside's problem if someone wants to buy it.

Puppet

legendary

Activity: 980

Merit: 1040

Quote from: Strange Vlad on September 23, 2013, 06:48:02 AM

The only question that really bothers me is why indeed not sell the website to someone trustworthy living in more some of the less regulated countries? I'm sure there are enough potential buyers to choose from.

IANAL but just moving the website probably isnt going to be enough, as long as its accessible to (among others) US customers.
Moreover the asset issuers based in just about any industrialized country would still be breaking the law by issuing unregulated securities.

Strange Vlad

full member

Activity: 140

Merit: 100

Quote from: pikeadz on September 23, 2013, 06:02:34 AM

Quote from: burnside on September 23, 2013, 05:23:16 AM

I understand you're upset. If I didn't care I wouldn't be here. (tho I am going to pass out soon. exhausted.)

yifu? is that you? i hope this isn't bad for your chi, but perhaps YOU should have thought this through before doing something like this. go rest in mommy's bed now and come back when you've had your nappy time.

Hey guys, how about we stop all the hating and insulting in this thread already?
Ethan is a nice guy, he has been very reliable and trustworthy, and he still is. He's just doing his best dealing with the extreme circumstances beyond his control. If he wanted to rip you off or anything, he would already do so long ago. Your panicking, hating and insulting don't contribute anything positive to the situation. So please be patient and STFU, would you? KTHX

The only question that really bothers me is why indeed not sell the website to someone trustworthy living in more some of the less regulated countries? I'm sure there are enough potential buyers to choose from.

bittop100

full member

Activity: 181

Merit: 100

Quote from: burnside on September 23, 2013, 03:11:04 AM

I know there are going to be lots of questions.

I will do what I can to answer questions and concerns tomorrow.

tomorrow 。。。。

Topic: [BTC-TC] Virtual Community Exchange [CLOSED] - page 28. (Read 316457 times)