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Topic: btt - page 72. (Read 407344 times)

legendary
Activity: 1022
Merit: 1033
July 13, 2013, 08:17:41 AM
I'm going to lower the expected output of the BFL units. Their real hashrate over the past 18 hours has been closer to 55Gh/s than 60. Perhaps if they're better cooled they can reach higher speeds, but we're not getting 60 out of them at this time.

Nasty Mining also gets about 55 Gh/s from each such units.
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
July 13, 2013, 08:12:37 AM
I'm going to lower the expected output of the BFL units. Their real hashrate over the past 18 hours has been closer to 55Gh/s than 60. Perhaps if they're better cooled they can reach higher speeds, but we're not getting 60 out of them at this time.

Cheers.
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
July 13, 2013, 07:28:52 AM
The cluster of three singles stopped mining at some point over night, it looks like about two - three hours revenue was lost. I'm looking into the cause of the problem. The three Avalons and remaining single were not affected.

Cheers.
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1035
July 13, 2013, 07:20:08 AM
In other words, one can be perfectly correct in theory about the "right" price, but the market is often irrational, because it includes much speculation, emotional decisions (panic sell / panic buy), and ignorance...
legendary
Activity: 1022
Merit: 1033
July 13, 2013, 06:58:13 AM
Your post is quite right actually, my argument was that you can't just say the price of a BM share should be the same as its equivalent hashrate, just like for ASICMINER. When you buy an AM or BM share you buy more than just the mining revenue / dividends.

I agree, it's not so much about current hashrate as it is about hashrate in future, and that depends on many factors, such as available capital, work of people who run company, etc.

This is why I find it is so strange that BASIC-MINING price jumps so much when more hashpower is added. In theory, it should barely affect price since it doesn't change future hashrate projections (unless those projections were total shit in the first place). Sure, when ASIC miner is delivered it is good news since there is no longer a risk that it was a scam or unit is DOA, so price can go up a bit, but not that much...
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1035
July 13, 2013, 04:27:10 AM
Sorry, I got lazy out of tiredness and I won't go the full quoted reply way...

Your post is quite right actually, my argument was that you can't just say the price of a BM share should be the same as its equivalent hashrate, just like for ASICMINER. When you buy an AM or BM share you buy more than just the mining revenue / dividends. It only makes sense when the price has chances to go higher, of course, but that's another story: that is yours, actually, I think Wink
legendary
Activity: 1022
Merit: 1033
July 13, 2013, 03:42:28 AM
This is bullshit. You can as well invest into mining hardware and reinvest some part of proceedings into more hardware. Sure, it requires some work, but really not that much, I guess.

(1) Unlike PMBs or plain mining hardware, there is a strategy of reinvestment here
(2) and the idea is more or less to increase or at least preserve the % of hashrate of the network as the difficulty grows.

Why can't you use same strategy?

You're buy from exactly same market creativex is buying from. He doesn't get any special deals. You can do exactly same thing which he does, following same strategy.

The only difference is that he had 1800 BTC to spend, initially.

If you sustain your "this is bullshit", please claim that (1) or (2) is wrong (or both), and give a rationale.

Honestly, I see no logic in your reasoning. Do you imply that strategy is secret or something? WHY can't you use it?

The rest of your sentence, while true, is not relevant to what you quoted from me. When you see people buying milk at the supermarket, do you tell them they are stupid because they could just move to a farm and milk their own cows?

You didn't understand what I meant. Creativex buys at market rate, that's OK.

But people who are buying BASIC-MINING shares now buy at 10x market rate. (I.e. there is only 0.1 BTC in BASIC-MINING assets for 1 BTC worth of shares.) This is NOT efficient in any imaginable way.

You get 10x more ROI if you do it directly.

Or if you don't want to do that, you can find shares which aren't that much overpriced. Do the math.
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1035
July 13, 2013, 03:27:41 AM
Unlike PMBs or plain mining hardware, there is a strategy of reinvestment here, and the idea is more or less to increase or at least preserve the % of hashrate of the network as the difficulty grows.

This is bullshit. You can as well invest into mining hardware and reinvest some part of proceedings into more hardware. Sure, it requires some work, but really not that much, I guess.

(1) Unlike PMBs or plain mining hardware, there is a strategy of reinvestment here
(2) and the idea is more or less to increase or at least preserve the % of hashrate of the network as the difficulty grows.

If you sustain your "this is bullshit", please claim that (1) or (2) is wrong (or both), and give a rationale.

The rest of your sentence, while true, is not relevant to what you quoted from me. When you see people buying milk at the supermarket, do you tell them they are stupid because they could just move to a farm and milk their own cows?
newbie
Activity: 23
Merit: 0
July 13, 2013, 03:24:18 AM
Well right now, at a weekly AM dividend of 0.02BTC/share, we have an equivalent hashing power of roughly 150MH/s, for 4.2BTC.

To compare AM value against BM value, based purely on hashing power:

BM: 0.084 BTC per MH/s  (9.3MH/s for 0.78BTC)
AM: 0.028 BTC per MH/s  (150MH/s for 4.2BTC)

Thus BM is 3x more expensive than AM, and AM has so much more to it than just hashing power.

BM is all about hashing power, yet with 12% dividends per annum, which may be maintained with luck, and a 3x higher than "market rate" value, I don't see how I would ever be comfortable with such a small profit/risk ratio.

And I don't see how I would ever be comfortable buying BM at 0.8 BTC per share, geez Louise...

But in all this I keep being the fool, by my own estimates, because this headstrong ego keeps wanting to be right instead of wanting to make money...
legendary
Activity: 1022
Merit: 1033
July 13, 2013, 03:20:39 AM
With this new addition bASIC-MINING has increased it's hashing power to approximately 465,000 Mh/s or 9.3Mh/s per share.

Wow, 9.3Mh/s per share... for 0.78 BTC...

Or, say, a BlockErupter at 330Mh/s... for 1.2 BTC...

I don't know guys, which one should I buy? I'm so conflicted... ... NOT.

It's possible to buy virtual PMB at 0.003 BTC per Mh/s.

So 330 Mh/s is 1 BTC.
legendary
Activity: 1022
Merit: 1033
July 13, 2013, 03:18:55 AM
Unlike PMBs or plain mining hardware, there is a strategy of reinvestment here, and the idea is more or less to increase or at least preserve the % of hashrate of the network as the difficulty grows.

This is bullshit. You can as well invest into mining hardware and reinvest some part of proceedings into more hardware. Sure, it requires some work, but really not that much, I guess.

ASICMINER is very different because it produces hardware itself at relatively low cost, also it sells hardware to increase capital.

ASICMINER might be able to keep up with growing hashrate (but it's not guaranteed, it all depends on what others will invest and what others will deliver), but let's just say it's much less likely for BASIC-MINING.

And over the last few months, things have been going very well for BM, thanks to the good management of creativex: acquiring the right hardware, at the right time and for a sensible price, basically.

He's buying for a market price. It is sensible, indeed, but anybody can buy devices that way (with some degree of luck).
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1035
July 13, 2013, 02:21:31 AM
With this new addition bASIC-MINING has increased it's hashing power to approximately 465,000 Mh/s or 9.3Mh/s per share.

Wow, 9.3Mh/s per share... for 0.78 BTC...

Or, say, a BlockErupter at 330Mh/s... for 1.2 BTC...

I don't know guys, which one should I buy? I'm so conflicted... ... NOT.

Could you perform the very same analysis with AM shares vs their BE USB please? Grin

Unlike PMBs or plain mining hardware, there is a strategy of reinvestment here, and the idea is more or less to increase or at least preserve the % of hashrate of the network as the difficulty grows. And over the last few months, things have been going very well for BM, thanks to the good management of creativex: acquiring the right hardware, at the right time and for a sensible price, basically.
newbie
Activity: 23
Merit: 0
July 13, 2013, 02:09:54 AM
With this new addition bASIC-MINING has increased it's hashing power to approximately 465,000 Mh/s or 9.3Mh/s per share.

Wow, 9.3Mh/s per share... for 0.78 BTC...

Or, say, a BlockErupter at 330Mh/s... for 1.2 BTC...

I don't know guys, which one should I buy? I'm so conflicted... ... NOT.
vip
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1043
👻
July 12, 2013, 10:44:00 PM
CreativeX, put your GPU to better use - mine weedcoin  Cheesy
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
July 12, 2013, 10:36:13 PM
bASIC isn't designing next gen chips or selling hardware. With that said, creative has done a great job with the asset.

...actually I do have some GPUs if you're interested. Grin Thank you Frank, kind of you to say.

Dear God...

AM (the real one) better start watching their back!
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
July 12, 2013, 10:34:17 PM
bASIC isn't designing next gen chips or selling hardware. With that said, creative has done a great job with the asset.

...actually I do have some GPUs if you're interested. Grin Thank you Frank, kind of you to say.
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
July 12, 2013, 10:23:54 PM
Oh I feel ashamed for doing this, but I can resist:

Yes, the stock price is still rising (like a chicken some would say). I did recommend BASIC-MINING to serveral of friends who want to invest in BTC, and I'm still filling the buy order, hoping to grab some cheap shares while I can.

AM is overvalued at the moment IMHO, it will probably be a good time to buy back when it will fall below 2 (this is pure speculation but I don't think it will stay above 2 forever).

On the other hand you have BASIC-MINING, with imminent delivery of >60 GH/s, and the same 2-3 months later, for a bit more than 3000 shareholders. And I'm pretty sure the price for each share can go well above 1.0 while I don't see AM much over 2.0 in the long run.

Time will tell :-)

My "friends" seem very happy with my advice now Wink

Attn daytraders: sometimes, all it takes is a calculator, reading the contract, reading the forum topic, computing on the spreadsheet and try to make an investment for the long term...

Yes, the 1:10 stock split definitely had an even deeper psychological impact than I thought!

You're right on bASIC's price gain but incorrect about AM's drop. It's still above 4 BTC/share. Keep in mind, AM's (the real one) market cap is magnitudes larger. bASIC isn't designing next gen chips or selling hardware. With that said, creativex has done a great job with the asset.
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1035
July 12, 2013, 10:17:00 PM
Oh I feel ashamed for doing this, but I can resist:

Yes, the stock price is still rising (like a chicken some would say). I did recommend BASIC-MINING to serveral of friends who want to invest in BTC, and I'm still filling the buy order, hoping to grab some cheap shares while I can.

AM is overvalued at the moment IMHO, it will probably be a good time to buy back when it will fall below 2 (this is pure speculation but I don't think it will stay above 2 forever).

On the other hand you have BASIC-MINING, with imminent delivery of >60 GH/s, and the same 2-3 months later, for a bit more than 3000 shareholders. And I'm pretty sure the price for each share can go well above 1.0 while I don't see AM much over 2.0 in the long run.

Time will tell :-)
(yes, I know AM trades at 4-something now, OTOH BM shares are almost at 10, pre-split)

My "friends" seem very happy with my advice now Wink

Attn daytraders: sometimes, all it takes is a calculator, reading the contract, reading the forum topic, computing on the spreadsheet and try to make an investment for the long term...

Yes, the 1:10 stock split definitely had an even deeper psychological impact than I thought!
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
July 12, 2013, 10:07:09 PM
For speculation's sake:

Those that bought bASIC 6 months ago for 0.25 - 0.3 BTC/share (and held them) saw 30x growth. While AM (the real one) "only" saw 10x growth in that timeframe, going from .5 to 5 BTC/share. This has to be a result of the share split, right? Or am I missing something?
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
July 12, 2013, 09:45:48 PM
First, great work on the additional units. OgNasty had to strip off the cases of the BLFs for additional cooling. Also, naked devices make for great mining rig pr0n.  Wink
If you decide to take off the cases, watch out: it's sharp.

Thanks Carnth. As soon as I saw the HW rate & temps on the BFLs I went for tools to strip them naked, but restrained myself. I want some baseline numbers at various operating temps before I go fiddling around with them. The fans don't seem adequate and the case seems to be just trapping heat. They still haven't managed to meet their rated speed yet today, but it's getting downright cold where they're hashing. I want to see where they end up. At least they've stopped dropping out.

Cheers.
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