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Topic: Butterfly Labs Forced "On Hold For Refund" for all my Single SC orders - page 43. (Read 59178 times)

sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
Question do you send your food back at a restaurant if something wrong? Don't mess with the people preparing your food (asic). Dont like it, go to another restaurant.

WTF? Yes I do, and in every single case so far the problem has been fixed and they're more than apologetic and quite often there's a free round of drinks or free dessert thrown in.

This is called customer service.

then you've eaten a lot of spit and human fluids.
sr. member
Activity: 490
Merit: 255
Question do you send your food back at a restaurant if something wrong? Don't mess with the people preparing your food (asic). Dont like it, go to another restaurant.

WTF? Yes I do, and in every single case so far the problem has been fixed and they're more than apologetic and quite often there's a free round of drinks or free dessert thrown in.

This is called customer service.

To continue with this analogy... it all depends on the "quality" of the restaurant.  A quality establishment with a proper chef will feel ownership for the dish and will do anything they can to make sure that their product represents their ideals.

A crappy "kitchen nightmares" restaurant with crappy management that insults the staff and customers, with mold in the fridge and half the meals come from canned components because they couldn't be bothered (or don't have the skill) to prepare the components themselves might come back in worse shape out of spite.

Obviously we are pushing this analogy too far...
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1067
Christian Antkow
What it does is chills the customer base, the attempt is to stifle dissent.
Customers will fear similar retribution if they voice their displeasure.

This is called Gestapo tactics. Look to Germany to see how well that worked out for them in 1945.
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
Question do you send your food back at a restaurant if something wrong? Don't mess with the people preparing your food (asic). Dont like it, go to another restaurant.

WTF? Yes I do, and in every single case so far the problem has been fixed and they're more than apologetic and quite often there's a free round of drinks or free dessert thrown in.

This is called customer service.
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
Question do you send your food back at a restaurant if something wrong? Don't mess with the people preparing your food (asic). Dont like it, go to another restaurant.
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
I disagree, kendog.

What it does is chills the customer base, the attempt is to stifle dissent.

Customers will fear similar retribution if they voice their displeasure.
hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 500
I'm sorry for your loss, Xian01, but this is one of the most bullish and positive signs I've seen from BLF in weeks!

If the company was really about to go belly up, why would they force a customer who pissed off the CEO to take a refund instead of just keeping this customers money and going bankrupt?

I'd say this the fact that they forced you to take a refund is a very good sign for others with BFL pre-orders!
sr. member
Activity: 490
Merit: 255


As per BFL's modus operandi, the wallet seems like a bit of FUD to keep folks from using slush's opensource hardware wallet.

http://bitcointrezor.com/
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/eshop-launched-trezor-bitcoin-hardware-wallet-122438

I think BFL have lost all credibility though, so not much potency to their FUD-fu.
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1067
Christian Antkow
Acutally they used customers money to design and develop another Bitcoin hardware. The BitSafe hardware wallet. Who knows what's in that wallet. Maybe someday in 1-2-3-x years your money will just vanish from it Cheesy

 If you can't trust Butterfly Labs to offer timely and accurate information on their ASIC project, when they have such an attitude of "contempt-of-customer", why on earth would you give them any trust whatsoever to manage your Bitcoins or believe it is going to ship in their stated "two months" estimate ?
 
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
I just thought of something terrible (or maybe not). What if Josh returns to KC to find that Sonny is nowhere to be found? Imagine the drama!

We all know Josh is gonna be the fall guys in this ...

It's not the first time he has been accused being in bed with fraudsters...
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1007
To keep the smoke screen up, they had jody seemingly post that orders were going out. They had everyone agree that they wanted their order or a refund. Then they kept people in the dark about how many orders were going out each day. This is what is called blowing smoke up a customers ass.

Josh was forced to acknowledge that the [total] stream of 35 prototype orders came to a grinding halt no sooner than it started.

Now they tell people (new false hope) that they have an incredible 100 chips coming in "soon". Followed by unspecified "hundreds" "next week".

OMG, how people can be strung along with hope...

Excellent summarizing...
This is typical behavior of fraudsters. They spend peoples money to keep the appearance up that they are for real with prototypes or other parts etc. and at the point everything is starting to fall apart (i.e. too many refunds or not enough preorders) they disappear.

Acutally they used customers money to design and develop another Bitcoin hardware. The BitSafe hardware wallet. Who knows what's in that wallet. Maybe someday in 1-2-3-x years your money will just vanish from it Cheesy
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
To keep the smoke screen up, they had jody seemingly post that orders were going out. They had everyone agree that they wanted their order or a refund. Then they kept people in the dark about how many orders were going out each day. This is what is called blowing smoke up a customers ass.

Josh was forced to acknowledge that the [total] stream of 35 prototype orders came to a grinding halt no sooner than it started.

Now they tell people (new false hope) that they have an incredible 100 chips coming in "soon". Followed by unspecified "hundreds" "next week".

OMG, how people can be strung along with hope...

Excellent summarizing...
This is typical behavior of fraudsters. They spend peoples money to keep the appearance up that they are for real with prototypes or other parts etc. and at the point everything is starting to fall apart (i.e. too many refunds or not enough preorders) they disappear.


When BFL ships in quantity and they can keep the production levels nice and high and run through their order queue at a decent speed...then I will put money down. Not before. Right now, BFL is a time bomb where everything that can go wrong, has. In light of that reality I am letting common sense take helm and not misplaced hope.

I doubt that they'll ever start mass shipping.
Even if they are genuinely trying, they will most likely go under being so unexperienced running a business and having missed the race completely, hit by massive refund requests or wasting the money they still have on yet a bunch of other screw-ups.
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1003
more stuff as usual including this:

(Read Carefully) Look at my sig, it says to invest MORE into BFL until they are ready to give a firm date.


Warning: BFL has failed to deliver to customers for > 165+ Days

yawn

No answer to 'open public accusations'
This is what it feels like to receive your first ASIC miner:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwzHfr-qaFo

This is what it feels like to not receive your ASIC Miner (after...I don't know how many days...I lost count):
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/2763-bitcoin-avalon-asic-batch-2-unboxing.html

And the inevitable reaction:

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/2766-how-use-buyer-protection-policy-pressure-lab-formally.html
hero member
Activity: 1162
Merit: 500
Agreed it could be misleading, it could be deceptive, but im banking on ignorance.

I used to call those guys "them BFL Cowboys" for their unfathomable amount of dilettantism.

But at some stage you simply can't blame it anymore on ignorance - at some stage you have to take malice into consideration.

Quote
Please do not skip mini-rig orders to ship loads of smaller units to pander to the masses. And if you do, at least provide demo singles or even jalapenos units free of charge to mini-rig customers.

This is truly unbelievable! Just imagine you ordered a new car - and it's gonna be 6 month late. You get free upgrades (seat heater, better car audio, and whatnot, ...). I would expect the same from BFL (like you said: free Singles or Jalapenos for the high-value MiniRig customers). But what does BFL do instead? Sending free units to the press, family&friends (BFL forum moderators), ... and only a handful to paying customers.

Must be a slap in the face - especially for high-value customers.
hero member
Activity: 1162
Merit: 500
I just thought of something terrible (or maybe not). What if Josh returns to KC to find that Sonny is nowhere to be found? Imagine the drama!

We all know Josh is gonna be the fall guys in this ...
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
Can you guess what he does with that tail?

Money. Tail. I've been looking for a place to link this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_DnQxOIUaU

Not fucking cool! Poor bastard is chained by the neck for no reason. If I ever found the c**t that did that I'd tear him/her to pieces!
legendary
Activity: 1918
Merit: 1570
Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending
I just thought of something terrible (or maybe not). What if Josh returns to KC to find that Sonny is nowhere to be found? Imagine the drama!
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
Number of BFL units delivered?

Number of changes to the delivery plans?

Number of changes to the design of the units?

If that is scare mongering then why bother asking any questions at all?

If you are not questioning or seeking answers to the questions above then I suspect you are simply willing to donate your money to BFL for units with no defined specifications or delivery dates. That is ok for those who are already "bought" into this system but that doesn't mean others should simply ignore the facts as BFL presented them and ignore it. There is certainly nothing wrong with being part of this community and giving a FAIR WARNING to others out there. What I do not understand is why anyone already in the system would care if others are warned off BFL products? Considering the current backlog of orders creating more of a backlog could bring the threat of legal action. investigation into the mix and it might work to collapse BFL. The only reason why a "customer" of BFL would be defending an increase in sales is ensure that there is enough of a cash flow so they will get their units and screw those who are being fooled into believing they are going to get units in July or August. That is disingenuous at best or fraud and those who advocate shutting up those who are voicing concern about BFL's lack of delivery, changing specification and redesigns as well as the shipping changes etc etc etc are to me complicit in this fraud.

You should be scared to order from BFL they have not delivered anything yet.
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1067
Christian Antkow
I recently came across this thread on Butterfly Labs' own forums of growing discontent with the state of the project and company.

---

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/minirig-sc-support/2513-mini-rig-concerns-open-letter-bfl.html

From: backburn  (Senior Member)
@ 05-07-2013, 02:56 PM
Join Date: Oct 2012

"I have had over 60 thousand dollars tied up with BFL's mini rigs since August 2012. It is saddening that Mini-Rig purchasers have been essentially been put to pasture. We take the largest risk and invest the most capital only to, seemingly, be shipped last. There has been next to no proactive personal communication from BFL. If there is an issue with our order we have to "search the website" everyday to be apprised. Car dealerships get a bad rap but they are saints compared to the customer handling by BFL. At least a car dealership will personally call you when they encounter a delay, hell they might even throw in free service. It is as if those who ordered a Mini-Rig are a liability to them instead of an asset.

While in Vegas for CES, several industry consultants including myself met with Josh and Dave at the Bitpay booth. We expressed concern about not only their power specifications but their density in the mini-rig chassis. We even offered to test and make recommendations on the mini-rig chassis and cooling systems for free. All of our concerns were brushed off by Josh and Dave and we were not contacted. (We are PAID to do this for Intel, nVidia, and ASUS. Many of they show systems you see at events are developed by us.) Maybe they were just tired from all that goes on at CES, maybe they thought we were just another group of nerds... I don't know. Mind you this was MONTHS before the wafers were manufactured. They were informed of these "new" issues months in advance.

a) The eVGA Classified 1500w power supplies they have already purchased were not proper for even their ORIGINAL board/rig specs. More than 80% continuous usage WILL cook consumer PSUs, not a matter of IF but WHEN. My car may be rated to go 120MPH, but if i leave it at full throttle how long will it last?
b) They pre-built daisy chain type usb cables: Bad idea. If one board goes tits up so does every properly functioning board behind it. Additionally, when you replace/remove the bad board you have to play usb cable musical chairs for the downstream devices. Each board should be home run. We're were told this was not an option because "they already made up the wires".
c) Even with the new boards it will take an extremely optimistic minimum of 3 Mini-Rig chassis. To add insult, each chassis will have be retrofit with an additional power supply, something we also pointed out at CES months and months ago.

Maybe they have addressed some of these issues. Who can know? I wont hold my breath, they have not given proper updates regarding Mini-Rigs for over half a year.

Quote
Originally Posted by stripykitteh  
... to change their policy with regards to order of manufacture and shipping at this stage is tantamount to misleading and deceptive conduct. BFL need to act very carefully.
Agreed it could be misleading, it could be deceptive, but im banking on ignorance.
We've collectively paid to kick-start the company for them.
We've paid from them to learn how to operate as a proper business.
And now we've paid and are waiting for them to learn how to make proper ASICs.

Bottom line:
It is amazing how far a personal phone call to those that have made $30,000.00+ orders will go.
We should NOT have to email you and search through a forum every month to find out what the heck is going on.
Please do not skip mini-rig orders to ship loads of smaller units to pander to the masses. And if you do, at least provide demo singles or even jalapenos units free of charge to mini-rig customers.
Don't forget that those of us with min-rig pre-orders in August could have had near $750,000.00 with their $30,000 if they had just bought BTC and sold during the last bubble.
Help take some of the sting away from pre-ordering with your company and show that you care. Throw us a bone!"


legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1067
Christian Antkow
Proxy? Why would I need a proxy?

For managing hopping your hash power at pools. I was running bitHopper 2.6.2 for getwork stuff up until very recently before I took the plunge to Stratum.

Have been at a loss for how to manage hopping the hash power in my farm through a local proxy, so I just went legit and have each CGMiner worker connecting to the pool directly via Stratum instead of connecting to my local bitHopper proxy and then out to the pools for getwork.

Knowwhatimean ? Automated poolhooping has become practically impossible today AFAIK.
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