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Topic: Butterfly Labs Forced "On Hold For Refund" for all my Single SC orders - page 38. (Read 59168 times)

legendary
Activity: 3878
Merit: 1193

They apparently weren't given a particularly strong case, however, throwing out most of the charges in exchange for avoiding a trial (for which they have unlimited funding). Federal prosecutors only care about a conviction rate. If they think they don't have a particularly strong case, they'll throw out most of it in exchange for a mere conviction.

"mere conviction"? They extradicted his ass from Italy and threw him in prison for a couple years. Small time crooks don't get such serious treatment.
legendary
Activity: 1190
Merit: 1000
There's also a difference between what I said, and what you actually accuse me of saying. I didn't say I was an "expert" on anything. I said I've read plenty of legal documents.

The questions was asked why anybody would place an order with a company who X,Y,Z. I responded as to why I (being one of those people) placed an order with said company, in spite of X,Y,Z. And was attacked for it. Don't ask the fucking question if you don't want the answer.

@wrenchmonkey
Perhaps if your posts were not laden with false statements, the community might be less hostile towards you. Also, you could lessen your use of the terms "troll", "douche", and such. Continuous name calling is one of the tactics BFL PR uses on these forums and it does not engender feelings of respect.

Finally, you might spend a little time reading before you make ridiculous assertions. Weirdly, you are not the first account on bitcointalk to suggest that Mr. Vleisides was the victim of evil government or media machinations. I expect you will not be the last. From our point of view, it is you and those like you that sounds like the broken record. Just another low post account who either hasn't read any history behind the issues, or is deliberately clouding the air for reasons unknown.

@ bitcoiner49er
Love your analogy extension. No cats, but still excellent internets.  Cheesy

You keep accusing me of false statements, but you're unable to produce any. Who is the broken record?  Roll Eyes

You said the IRS indicted Sonny. I corrected you.
You said it was an IRS witch hunt. I corrected you.
You just said you made no false statements. I have now corrected you.
You will continue to make false statements in support of BFL for reasons that are not clear.

No, you're playing the semantics game. The US DOJ files indictments for the entity that requests it. In this case, the IRS.

I said that it appears to me to be little more than an IRS witch hunt (statement of opinion, not of fact, and not up for debate in terms of "false statements"),

The US DOJ would have been merely accessory to (since they're the ones who actually do the prosecution, once a case/witch hunt gets turned over to them).

They apparently weren't given a particularly strong case, however, throwing out most of the charges in exchange for avoiding a trial (for which they have unlimited funding). Federal prosecutors only care about a conviction rate. If they think they don't have a particularly strong case, they'll throw out most of it in exchange for a mere conviction. If they actually thought he was a bad guy, they would've thrown the book at him, knowing that they with a strong case, and unlimited funds, they would eventually bury him.

Come on, you can do better than that. You've been accusing me of making false statements since well before this even came up. Getting desperate?

@wrenchmonkey
Ah, now you begin to backpedal frantically. I guess you finally realize that I can and will quote your misinformation as warnings to others who might order from BFL.

More disinformation from you: The IRS does not "request" indictments. They investigate and if they determine a crime has been committed that should be prosecuted, they then recommend that case to the DoJ. The DoJ does their own investigation and analysis and then determine if an indictment should be issued. In this case, the investigation was initiated by the US Postal Inspection Service and the prosecution was done by the DoJ.
https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/radDocs/PressRoom/nr110114.htm

More disinformation from you: The case was strong enough that the ring leader was sentenced to 5 years. Of course, Sonny pled out first and had counts dropped in exchange for his plea testimony. Had he not pled guilty and given his plea deal testimony he might have had the book thrown at him.
You can read all about every single filing in the case here: http://www.plainsite.org/flashlight/case.html?id=1500526

Perhaps you should actually read the evidence instead of just dreaming up what you would like to have happened and representing it here as fact.
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
What are you trying to find? Bitching and moaning from the OP? Hint: it's on every page of this thread, and most pages of most other threads involving BFL.  Wink

Hardly surprising. People tend to complain when they're constantly lied to.

Seems to be a small handful of people making all the noise?


That is part of the problem. There is so much evidence about the history of BFL that people just see a wall of text and refuse to read it. Thus it just comes across as "noise".

Since we cannot rely on people to read, we have to continuously dispel nonsense brought up by the Wrenchmonkeys of the world.

There's also a difference between what I said, and what you actually accuse me of saying. I didn't say I was an "expert" on anything. I said I've read plenty of legal documents.

The questions was asked why anybody would place an order with a company who X,Y,Z. I responded as to why I (being one of those people) placed an order with said company, in spite of X,Y,Z. And was attacked for it. Don't ask the fucking question if you don't want the answer.

@wrenchmonkey
Perhaps if your posts were not laden with false statements, the community might be less hostile towards you. Also, you could lessen your use of the terms "troll", "douche", and such. Continuous name calling is one of the tactics BFL PR uses on these forums and it does not engender feelings of respect.

Finally, you might spend a little time reading before you make ridiculous assertions. Weirdly, you are not the first account on bitcointalk to suggest that Mr. Vleisides was the victim of evil government or media machinations. I expect you will not be the last. From our point of view, it is you and those like you that sounds like the broken record. Just another low post account who either hasn't read any history behind the issues, or is deliberately clouding the air for reasons unknown.

@ bitcoiner49er
Love your analogy extension. No cats, but still excellent internets.  Cheesy

You keep accusing me of false statements, but you're unable to produce any. Who is the broken record?  Roll Eyes

You said the IRS indicted Sonny. I corrected you.
You said it was an IRS witch hunt. I corrected you.
You just said you made no false statements. I have now corrected you.
You will continue to make false statements in support of BFL for reasons that are not clear.

No, you're playing the semantics game. The US DOJ files indictments for the entity that requests it. In this case, the IRS.

I said that it appears to me to be little more than an IRS witch hunt (statement of opinion, not of fact, and not up for debate in terms of "false statements"),

The US DOJ would have been merely accessory to (since they're the ones who actually do the prosecution, once a case/witch hunt gets turned over to them).

They apparently weren't given a particularly strong case, however, throwing out most of the charges in exchange for avoiding a trial (for which they have unlimited funding). Federal prosecutors only care about a conviction rate. If they think they don't have a particularly strong case, they'll throw out most of it in exchange for a mere conviction. If they actually thought he was a bad guy, they would've thrown the book at him, knowing that they with a strong case, and unlimited funds, they would eventually bury him.

Come on, you can do better than that. You've been accusing me of making false statements since well before this even came up. Getting desperate?

If you were innocent, would you plead guilty?
If you were innocent, would you place yourself in a foreign prison, in order to fight extradition?
If you were innocent, would you not go to trial in order to make your case?
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1005
What I don't understand is how so many people could be so screwed by this company, and yet, how very few seem to request refunds.  Even let's suppose BFL ships in 2 months or so. How can you justify being lied to repeatedly and still trust this company -- there is no way in hell they could have expected to finish their product in any of the initial timelines they regularly proclaimed.  

Seems rational enough at this point.  Even if people think they've been screwed up until now, at this point, the preorder money is a sunk cost.  Anyone at the top of the queue who ever actually gets a unit will probably profit overall on the deal.  Depending on how you figure the odds of actually getting a unit and when you think it's likely, it's kind of a judgment call as to whether it's worth sticking around or getting a refund.

If I had a high order number, I'd be getting out of Dodge.  (Luckily, I have no money tied up in this clusterfuck personally.)
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
What are you trying to find? Bitching and moaning from the OP? Hint: it's on every page of this thread, and most pages of most other threads involving BFL.  Wink

Hardly surprising. People tend to complain when they're constantly lied to.

Seems to be a small handful of people making all the noise?


That is part of the problem. There is so much evidence about the history of BFL that people just see a wall of text and refuse to read it. Thus it just comes across as "noise".

Since we cannot rely on people to read, we have to continuously dispel nonsense brought up by the Wrenchmonkeys of the world.

There's also a difference between what I said, and what you actually accuse me of saying. I didn't say I was an "expert" on anything. I said I've read plenty of legal documents.

The questions was asked why anybody would place an order with a company who X,Y,Z. I responded as to why I (being one of those people) placed an order with said company, in spite of X,Y,Z. And was attacked for it. Don't ask the fucking question if you don't want the answer.

@wrenchmonkey
Perhaps if your posts were not laden with false statements, the community might be less hostile towards you. Also, you could lessen your use of the terms "troll", "douche", and such. Continuous name calling is one of the tactics BFL PR uses on these forums and it does not engender feelings of respect.

Finally, you might spend a little time reading before you make ridiculous assertions. Weirdly, you are not the first account on bitcointalk to suggest that Mr. Vleisides was the victim of evil government or media machinations. I expect you will not be the last. From our point of view, it is you and those like you that sounds like the broken record. Just another low post account who either hasn't read any history behind the issues, or is deliberately clouding the air for reasons unknown.

@ bitcoiner49er
Love your analogy extension. No cats, but still excellent internets.  Cheesy

You keep accusing me of false statements, but you're unable to produce any. Who is the broken record?  Roll Eyes

You said the IRS indicted Sonny. I corrected you.
You said it was an IRS witch hunt. I corrected you.
You just said you made no false statements. I have now corrected you.
You will continue to make false statements in support of BFL for reasons that are not clear.

No, you're playing the semantics game. The US DOJ files indictments for the entity that requests it. In this case, the IRS.

I said that it appears to me to be little more than an IRS witch hunt (statement of opinion, not of fact, and not up for debate in terms of "false statements"),

The US DOJ would have been merely accessory to (since they're the ones who actually do the prosecution, once a case/witch hunt gets turned over to them).

They apparently weren't given a particularly strong case, however, throwing out most of the charges in exchange for avoiding a trial (for which they have unlimited funding). Federal prosecutors only care about a conviction rate. If they think they don't have a particularly strong case, they'll throw out most of it in exchange for a mere conviction. If they actually thought he was a bad guy, they would've thrown the book at him, knowing that they with a strong case, and unlimited funds, they would eventually bury him.

Come on, you can do better than that. You've been accusing me of making false statements since well before this even came up. Getting desperate?
legendary
Activity: 1190
Merit: 1000
What are you trying to find? Bitching and moaning from the OP? Hint: it's on every page of this thread, and most pages of most other threads involving BFL.  Wink

Hardly surprising. People tend to complain when they're constantly lied to.

Seems to be a small handful of people making all the noise?


That is part of the problem. There is so much evidence about the history of BFL that people just see a wall of text and refuse to read it. Thus it just comes across as "noise".

Since we cannot rely on people to read, we have to continuously dispel nonsense brought up by the Wrenchmonkeys of the world.

There's also a difference between what I said, and what you actually accuse me of saying. I didn't say I was an "expert" on anything. I said I've read plenty of legal documents.

The questions was asked why anybody would place an order with a company who X,Y,Z. I responded as to why I (being one of those people) placed an order with said company, in spite of X,Y,Z. And was attacked for it. Don't ask the fucking question if you don't want the answer.

@wrenchmonkey
Perhaps if your posts were not laden with false statements, the community might be less hostile towards you. Also, you could lessen your use of the terms "troll", "douche", and such. Continuous name calling is one of the tactics BFL PR uses on these forums and it does not engender feelings of respect.

Finally, you might spend a little time reading before you make ridiculous assertions. Weirdly, you are not the first account on bitcointalk to suggest that Mr. Vleisides was the victim of evil government or media machinations. I expect you will not be the last. From our point of view, it is you and those like you that sounds like the broken record. Just another low post account who either hasn't read any history behind the issues, or is deliberately clouding the air for reasons unknown.

@ bitcoiner49er
Love your analogy extension. No cats, but still excellent internets.  Cheesy

You keep accusing me of false statements, but you're unable to produce any. Who is the broken record?  Roll Eyes

You said the IRS indicted Sonny. I corrected you.
You said it was an IRS witch hunt. I corrected you.
You just said you made no false statements. I have now corrected you.
You will continue to make false statements in support of BFL for reasons that are not clear.
yxt
legendary
Activity: 3528
Merit: 1116
@wrenchmonkey

Why do you invest so much time defending BFL  Huh

Not defending BFL, per se. Just toying with the trolls.  Wink

Ok

Why do you invest so much time "toying with the trolls"?
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
I continued to be surprised how strong sales are for BFL even to this day. Guess it goes to show you how much of an impact advertising can have, and how this sizzle is often more important than the steak.

I can also understand somewhat how folks who haven't read too much about Bitcoin, or much at all on these forums, could be seduced into buying a sexy BFL 'pre-order' after punching in basic numbers into that top Google ranked Bitcoin mining calculator, which has the big prominent BFL ad on the same page.

What I don't understand is how so many people could be so screwed by this company, and yet, how very few seem to request refunds.  Even let's suppose BFL ships in 2 months or so. How can you justify being lied to repeatedly and still trust this company -- there is no way in hell they could have expected to finish their product in any of the initial timelines they regularly proclaimed. 

And if you even then presumed that they were being honest when saying '1 or 2 more weeks' for the last forever, (and going great lengths to win that 'shipping' bet) then you would than logically have to suppose that the level of BFL's incompetence is such that it'd be a far better investment to move your BTC anywhere elsewhere.

Get a refund while you can. Cut your losses.

Spend a few days on the BFL forums and you'll see why. Not the brightest group over there. The moderators are bullies (probably by design, as some have been given product) and many of their customers do not speak English very well (or at all). Most are just honest folks who keep holding out hope for their magic money machine. More of them are waking up, and are loudly being told to get refunds so BFL can distance themselves from undesireable customers.

Their ads and slick website continue to draw in the naive and greedy, piggybacking off bitcoin's success, promising huge returns on investment. Funny how scams, having evolved over the years, still operate by exploiting a plethoria of basic human emotions.
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
What are you trying to find? Bitching and moaning from the OP? Hint: it's on every page of this thread, and most pages of most other threads involving BFL.  Wink

Hardly surprising. People tend to complain when they're constantly lied to.

Seems to be a small handful of people making all the noise?


That is part of the problem. There is so much evidence about the history of BFL that people just see a wall of text and refuse to read it. Thus it just comes across as "noise".

Since we cannot rely on people to read, we have to continuously dispel nonsense brought up by the Wrenchmonkeys of the world.

There's also a difference between what I said, and what you actually accuse me of saying. I didn't say I was an "expert" on anything. I said I've read plenty of legal documents.

The questions was asked why anybody would place an order with a company who X,Y,Z. I responded as to why I (being one of those people) placed an order with said company, in spite of X,Y,Z. And was attacked for it. Don't ask the fucking question if you don't want the answer.

@wrenchmonkey
Perhaps if your posts were not laden with false statements, the community might be less hostile towards you. Also, you could lessen your use of the terms "troll", "douche", and such. Continuous name calling is one of the tactics BFL PR uses on these forums and it does not engender feelings of respect.

Finally, you might spend a little time reading before you make ridiculous assertions. Weirdly, you are not the first account on bitcointalk to suggest that Mr. Vleisides was the victim of evil government or media machinations. I expect you will not be the last. From our point of view, it is you and those like you that sounds like the broken record. Just another low post account who either hasn't read any history behind the issues, or is deliberately clouding the air for reasons unknown.

@ bitcoiner49er
Love your analogy extension. No cats, but still excellent internets.  Cheesy

You keep accusing me of false statements, but you're unable to produce any. Who is the broken record?  Roll Eyes
legendary
Activity: 1190
Merit: 1000
What are you trying to find? Bitching and moaning from the OP? Hint: it's on every page of this thread, and most pages of most other threads involving BFL.  Wink

Hardly surprising. People tend to complain when they're constantly lied to.

Seems to be a small handful of people making all the noise?


That is part of the problem. There is so much evidence about the history of BFL that people just see a wall of text and refuse to read it. Thus it just comes across as "noise".

Since we cannot rely on people to read, we have to continuously dispel nonsense brought up by the Wrenchmonkeys of the world.

There's also a difference between what I said, and what you actually accuse me of saying. I didn't say I was an "expert" on anything. I said I've read plenty of legal documents.

The questions was asked why anybody would place an order with a company who X,Y,Z. I responded as to why I (being one of those people) placed an order with said company, in spite of X,Y,Z. And was attacked for it. Don't ask the fucking question if you don't want the answer.

@wrenchmonkey
Perhaps if your posts were not laden with false statements, the community might be less hostile towards you. Also, you could lessen your use of the terms "troll", "douche", and such. Continuous name calling is one of the tactics BFL PR uses on these forums and it does not engender feelings of respect.

Finally, you might spend a little time reading before you make ridiculous assertions. Weirdly, you are not the first account on bitcointalk to suggest that Mr. Vleisides was the victim of evil government or media machinations. I expect you will not be the last. From our point of view, it is you and those like you that sounds like the broken record. Just another low post account who either hasn't read any history behind the issues, or is deliberately clouding the air for reasons unknown.

@ bitcoiner49er
Love your analogy extension. No cats, but still excellent internets.  Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1067
Christian Antkow
You don't think that him (and others like him) turning up in every thread that mentions BFL in order to spread FUD and vitriol impacts their business? REEEEALY?  Roll Eyes

Go try and run a restaurant with people pissing all over the windows all the time, and see how that works out for you.
Except your "restaurant" has 1,000's of customers who are hungry and have been waiting for 11 months for their food. The restroom is full of urine and feces, the storeroom is full, the waiting area is full, the only place to "relieve" one's self IS on the windows.

Analogy fail.

The BFL debacle is not like any other normal business scenario.

 Thank you for this analogy. It is quite apropos and right on the mark.

EDIT: And lets not forget that the reason I lost my cool is over how their COO was taunting their loyal and, until recently, patient customers, right here on these very forums. Additionally, while making claims that these forums are not important to their business, they are continuing attempting to advertise here.
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
@wrenchmonkey

Why do you invest so much time defending BFL  Huh

Not defending BFL, per se. Just toying with the trolls.  Wink
yxt
legendary
Activity: 3528
Merit: 1116
@wrenchmonkey

Why do you invest so much time defending BFL  Huh
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
What are you trying to find? Bitching and moaning from the OP? Hint: it's on every page of this thread, and most pages of most other threads involving BFL.  Wink

Hardly surprising. People tend to complain when they're constantly lied to.

Seems to be a small handful of people making all the noise?


That is part of the problem. There is so much evidence about the history of BFL that people just see a wall of text and refuse to read it. Thus it just comes across as "noise".

Since we cannot rely on people to read, we have to continuously dispel nonsense brought up by the Wrenchmonkeys of the world.

There's also a difference between what I said, and what you actually accuse me of saying. I didn't say I was an "expert" on anything. I said I've read plenty of legal documents.

The questions was asked why anybody would place an order with a company who X,Y,Z. I responded as to why I (being one of those people) placed an order with said company, in spite of X,Y,Z. And was attacked for it. Don't ask the fucking question if you don't want the answer.
sr. member
Activity: 457
Merit: 250


No, his orders weren't just canceled, he was banned from doing business with them. Do you think he's allowed to place another order? Doubt it. This constitutes a ban (ie blacklisting). Look it up: dictionary.com.

They have 'turned the other cheek'. Again, you are willfully ignorant of the facts here. This isn't an isolated incident where he lost his cool. He made a habit of trashing them at every opportunity. You don't think that him (and others like him) turning up in every thread that mentions BFL in order to spread FUD and vitriol impacts their business? REEEEALY?  Roll Eyes

Go try and run a restaurant with people pissing all over the windows all the time, and see how that works out for you.

"Sir, you need to stop pissing on the windows, or leave."
"But I'm a customer! I'm waiting on my order, and I'm just doing whatever I feel like while I wait!"
"That doesn't give you license to piss on the windows. Here's your money back, now leave, and don't come back."
"Do you see him repressing me? Help, help, I'm being repressed!"

Except your "restaurant" has 1,000's of customers who are hungry and have been waiting for 11 months for their food. The restroom is full of urine and feces, the storeroom is full, the waiting area is full, the only place to "relieve" one's self IS on the windows.

Analogy fail.

The BFL debacle is not like any other normal business scenario.
legendary
Activity: 1190
Merit: 1000
What are you trying to find? Bitching and moaning from the OP? Hint: it's on every page of this thread, and most pages of most other threads involving BFL.  Wink

Hardly surprising. People tend to complain when they're constantly lied to.

Seems to be a small handful of people making all the noise?


That is part of the problem. There is so much evidence about the history of BFL that people just see a wall of text and refuse to read it. Thus it just comes across as "noise".

Since we cannot rely on people to read, we have to continuously dispel nonsense brought up by the Wrenchmonkeys of the world.
legendary
Activity: 1190
Merit: 1000

On what possible basis could you equate 5 guys convicted of a 20 million dollar mail fraud scheme that stole money from senior citizens to "a witch hunt"?
Please provide links to your evidence. I don't want to hear more of your "I read it somewhere on the internet".

Also, notifying potential investors in BFL of Sonny's conviction for fraud is not "dragging his name through the mud". Unless your name happens to be Sonny. Then I can understand why you are so upset that so many people have brought this up in threads about BFL. It would also make sense why you defend BFL no matter what the evidence against you is.

At least you haven't eaten at a 4 start restaurant.

..it is spelled "star" oh great troller of the trolling trolls...  I bet you haven't eaten at a "4 Start" restaurant either...

next time your trolling gets so thin that you have to resort to calling people out for spelling mistakes.. make sure to keep your posts clear of the same stupid mistakes.

If you and wrenchmonkey ceased to be on this forum, it would make it much easier to find things

Since you just got to the internet yesterday, I will explain to you the difference between a typo and not knowing how a word is spelled. A typo is a one time mistake due to a failure in manual dexterity (usually while using the keyboard). Not knowing how a word is spelled will often result in a continuous stream of identical errors. Moreover, there is irony in someone claiming to be an expert in "inditements" because he has read so many legal documents but never got enough out of them to learn how the word was spelled.

Thanks for pointing out the mistake though, I will go fix my error.
full member
Activity: 194
Merit: 100
What are you trying to find? Bitching and moaning from the OP? Hint: it's on every page of this thread, and most pages of most other threads involving BFL.  Wink

Hardly surprising. People tend to complain when they're constantly lied to.

Seems to be a small handful of people making all the noise?
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
What are you trying to find? Bitching and moaning from the OP? Hint: it's on every page of this thread, and most pages of most other threads involving BFL.  Wink

Hardly surprising. People tend to complain when they're constantly lied to.
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
What are you trying to find? Bitching and moaning from the OP? Hint: it's on every page of this thread, and most pages of most other threads involving BFL.  Wink
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