Topic: Butterfly Labs Forced "On Hold For Refund" for all my Single SC orders - page 40. (Read 59168 times)

Once again, I have no doubt that the IRS wrote up a real pretty bloviating inditement, they're good at that. It's about all they're good at. I'm not "polishing" his reputation, just observing what the good ol us.gov likes to do.

If anybody thinks that BFL is a fraud, don't order (or cancel your order and get a refund). Most people bringing it up don't actually believe it's a fraud, but just want to drag his name through the mud. OP included.

Once again, I have no doubt that the IRS wrote up a real pretty bloviating inditement, they're good at that. It's about all they're good at. I'm not "polishing" his reputation, just observing what the good ol us.gov likes to do.

If anybody thinks that BFL is a fraud, don't order (or cancel your order and get a refund). Most people bringing it up don't actually believe it's a fraud, but just want to drag his name through the mud. OP included.

Ok re-read it, still reads the same!

Wrenchmonkey has clearly not read the press releases, the charges filed by the department of justice, or the extradition order.
Or if he has, he is just willfully ignoring that it was the Department of Justice, the US Postal Inspector (in charge of hunting down mail fraud), and the IRS.
Notice how I posted links to actual public documents detailing the crime, investigation, trial, and conviction of Sonny. Notice how he rebutted this argument with "I read somewhere on the internet that Sonny was cool and the IRS was on a witchhunt".

Watching him perform mental gymnastics to polish the reputation (and probably the knob) of Sonny is hilarious.

Huh?  Learn to read.

For starters, the charges you're referencing appear to have been little more than an IRS witch hunt. Maybe he voted Republican?  

From what I've read, he was brought in to help run an already established self-funded off-shore gambling pool that the IRS wasn't a fan of, and was rounded up as a part of that. The two years in jail in Italy was while he was fighting an extradition order.

Again, I've seen enough people railroaded by the IRS for having the wrong politics to not give too much credence to a witch hunt that ended in a plea bargain.

Since when is the IRS in charge of "mail fraud"? The whole thing stinks of trumped up charges and a witch hunt. But of course, it's great fodder for the people who already have an ax to grind with BFL.

Hang on, let me get this straight, you'd be prepared to cut the guy some slack *if* he committed an armed bank robbery?!

I'd generally let something like this slide if it was a long time ago and has nothing to do with what someone is doing now.  For instance, if he ran a mail fraud 20 years ago and is now accused of robbing a bank, it isn't all that relevant.

However, when someone is running what looks awfully like the very mail fraud they were recently in prison for perpetrating, I am less inclined to cut slack and more inclined to think a leopard doesn't change its spots.

I'd generally let something like this slide if it was a long time ago and has nothing to do with what someone is doing now.  For instance, if he ran a mail fraud 20 years ago and is now accused of robbing a bank, it isn't all that relevant.

However, when someone is running what looks awfully like the very mail fraud they were recently in prison for perpetrating, I am less inclined to cut slack and more inclined to think a leopard doesn't change its spots.

Tried, convicted, spent 14 months in jail, and is still on probation.
A bit more than an IRS witch hunt.

For starters, the charges you're referencing appear to have been little more than an IRS witch hunt. Maybe he voted Republican?  

A joint investigation involving the IRS-CID and the United States Postal Inspection Service (USPIS), revealed that from at least 1990 through July 2006, SONNY VLEISIDES, James Ray Houston, Dennis Emmett, William Cloud, Henry Walther, Scott Henry Walther, and others committed a massive international lottery scam using the following company names: Shamrock Agency, German Swiss Group, World Expert Fund, Mutual Medical Insurance Co, Old Amsterdam Trust Co, Euro American Fax Co, European Union Commission, EU American Payment Co, Global Search Network, North American Foreign Payments Services, Wor'dwide Verification Service, and others. VLEISIDES ran the scheme along with Houston and Emmett. VLEISIDES, Houston and Emmett, who were all located in Costa Rica, worked with mailing houses which, at the direction of VLEISIDES, Houston, and Emmett, sent out tens of thousands of mailings to victims in the United States, many of whom were elderly. The mailings contained false statements, half truths, and omissions, and induced the victims to participate in various international lotteries, falsely stating that if the victims participated, they were guaranteed to win or had a very good chance to win. The mailings directed the victims to send their money to Ireland, at d the Netherlands, among other locations, where William Cloud had set up addresses with commercial mail receiving agencies and individuals to forward the money, eventually, back to the United States. After receipt at the commercial mail receiving agencies, the victims' money was sent to Henry Walther, who, along with his son Scott Henry Walther, deposited the money into various bank accounts and then distributed it as directed by VLEISIDES, Houston, and Emmett. Some of the money was spent on furthering the criminal activity. Some of the money was paid out to victims in small-dollar checks that the co-schemers misrepresented to be lottery winnings. The rest of the money was paid out to the co-schemers and others for their own use. VLEISIDES and the other defendants did not buy any lottery tickets, and the vast majority of the victims lost the money they sent. The total loss from the scheme is in excess of $19 million.

...

An analysis was done on approximately twenty of the bank accounts established in the United States at the direction of VLEISIDES and his co-schemers. The analysis revealed, in summary, that the victims' money was first deposited into accounts established by the co-schemers at numerous banks in accounts with names that sound like official lotteries: SHAMROCK AGENCY, WORLD EXPERT, OLD AMSTERDAM, GERMAN SWISS, and EUC. (Hereinafter, accounts at this first layer will be referred to as "Deposit Accounts.") The co-schemers obtained over $19 million from tens of thousands of victims and deposited them into these accounts. After the co-schemers deposited the victims' money into the Deposit Accounts, they transferred the money to the next layer of accounts, hereinafter referred to as "Payment Accounts." These accounts were in names that included NORTH AMERICAN PAYMENT and EU PAYMENT SERVICE. From the Payment Accounts, the co-schemers wrote checks represented as winnings and sent them back to the victims. The amount of the alleged "winnings" was far less than the amount the victims sent in - for the over $19 million going into the accounts from victims, only approximately 20% was sent back to victims in the form of "winning" checks. The co-schemers transferred some of the money from the Deposit Accounts and Payment Accounts to the next layer of accounts, which will hereinafter be referred to as "Syphon Accounts." The co-schemers wrote checks (or used wire transfers) from the Lottery Accounts and the Payment Accounts to the Syphon Accounts, which were in names that included WESTERN INTERNET, BUTTERFIELD, CARNEGIE and HENRY WALTHER ATTORNEY WIRE ACCOUNT. Money from the Syphon Accounts was used to continue the scheme by paying scheme expenses, as well as to provide benefits to the co-schemers. The co-schemers also took money at each layer in the form of checks to cash, checks to themselves, or checks to the payment of personal or scheme expenses.

For starters, the charges you're referencing appear to have been little more than an IRS witch hunt. Maybe he voted Republican?  

Even if these clowns were shipping.   Why on earth would anyone want to purchase from and support a company with involvement of a guy who fucked over hardworking people for almost 2 decades in a mail scam?   I guess its the bitcoin chaaa-ching blinders.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_jody/162-sorry-i-wasnt-clear.html

 We know that the claim of "ignoring the mean ones" has been verified as a lie.

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 BFL_Jody  , 05-19-2013 at 05:55 PM

A few more Jalapenos went out Saturday and a few more Jalapenos will go out Monday.

We have answered more than 1,000 emails in the last week.

I enjoy reading your comments, but I don't have time to answer them individually. I am answering emails 7 days a week as are many of my employees. We appreciate your nice comments and ignore the mean ones. We understand your frustration--we are as anxious as any of you to ship all these orders.

 I appreciate your assessment, and threads getting occasionally derailed is a fact-of-life on forums.
 
 This thread is important to publicly document and discuss some very serious concerns about Butterfly Labs' customer service (or lack thereof) issues, public relations, progress on this ASIC project since it has been announced over 11 months ago, along with serving to educate prospective customers on their business practices.

 Community service, if you will.

 Trolls are a fact of life. Best to just add them to your ignore list.

I think the majority of you on either side of this are a bunch of idiots.  With my current ignore list this thread turns into a big blank page.  I guess I thought there would be "some" sort of information on recent developments but with all of the trolls (both sides), this thread should be closed.

Correct... though if he had eaten at a three star restaurant it is unlikely he would have forgotten (based just on the price of admission and the fact that at most there is a 3 to 6 week waiting list).  Also... pretty much people who are in to that very specific experience would find the wait and cost worth while.

/shrug