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Topic: Butterfly Labs Jalapeno Unboxing - page 4. (Read 13597 times)

full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
April 21, 2013, 12:09:10 AM
#48
So who lied in oct? Nov? Dec? Jan? Feb? Mar?

broken promise != lie
Sure it does, they said they would ship at a certain date, they did not.
that is a lie

Wrong.

Edit so that this doesn't go back and forth forever:

A lie would be saying "We shipped in October" in November when they haven't shipped in October. If they say "We intend to ship in October" but something happens and they can't, that statement doesn't retroactively become a lie. A statement is true or false at the time that it is made; to knowingly make a false statement is to lie, by definition. Anything else is not a lie.

You see this kind of thing in politics all the time. A politician says "I will not do X".  They are later forced to do X due to external factors, and their opponent then (incorrectly) calls them a liar, even if they honestly intended to not do X. Or worse, they are forced to do Y which is kinda like X yet not X, their opponent then misrepresents Y as X and then calls them a liar. The general public is often too stupid to see that Y is not X and that even doing X would not have made it a lie...
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
April 21, 2013, 12:04:05 AM
#47
Quote
I guess no one seems to wonder how a company can issue refunds of thousands of dollars of pre-order merchandise and Paypal never balks at it?

See, Yajaira D Guevara, this is why you're so pathetic.  You make statements like this.  Who says we issue refunds of thousands of dollars?  Your warped little mind?  We get very little refund requests in the grand scheme of things.  I know you desperately want it to be true that people are asking for refunds in droves, but it's simply not the case.  This is why I know a large majority of the whiny brats that cry about BFL still maintain their pre-orders.  Frankly, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if you had a stealth order yourself, just like Frizz, but until there's evidence of that, I'll give you props for being one of the few trolls who actually doesn't have a pre-order.

You just go on advocating fraud there, Yajaira.  You are a real stand up guy!  Not only a liar, but a thief and fraudster as well, GG!



legendary
Activity: 1876
Merit: 1003
April 21, 2013, 12:00:06 AM
#46
It is pretty sneaky. Though they would probably not want anyone to know that their customers might be able to "double tap" them for a refund.

Consider that a customer using Paypal would want an actual refund of a transaction. So they use that workaround to "send" the customer money as a ?"gift"? for what they are owed. The original transaction still remains with that valid refund button. So if that customer still demands the transaction be refunded and open a dispute....they may very well get to "double tap" the refund.

So you you have spent months calling BFL a scam and now you are encouraging people to commit fraud? Really taking the moral high ground here I see!

A small tip, when you are trying throw shit at others make sure to not stand in your own shit pile, your shoes tend to get messy that way.

Haha, do you expect anything less from Puerto Libre?  He's lied repeatedly for months, why not throw some fraud into the mix?  He's right up his alley, given his lifestyle.

Can you feel the epic wave of back peddling by the likes of Yajaira D Guevara and the rest of the clown crew as they try to claim they never said BFL was a scam or that BFL would never ship or that BFL never had ASICs etc... but they ACTUALLY meant something entirely different.



Want to play?

Josh[ua] Ryan Zerlan?
I expected that those who were emotionally invested in the whole "omg BFL is a scam" thing would have trouble accepting otherwise and would probably look for other reasons for BFL to be in the wrong, but honestly I'm slightly surprised that PL outright advocated fraud.

I didn't advocate fraud. If people end up doing it, it is because BFL is misapplying refunds. (IMO) There is no loophole until it is then created.

There is an incentive now to close this loophole. I am surprised no one ever realized it.

----------------

I guess no one seems to wonder how a company can issue refunds of thousands of dollars of pre-order merchandise and Paypal never balks at it?

Circumvent the way refunds are done and you open up a backdoor to new problems. As long as no one is the wiser the abuse may continue. If you want to say sly crap, go right ahead. Pointing it out is not advocating.

Unless you are one of those types that thinks security through obscurity is...security?

Let Paypal deal with that issue when they come to it.
legendary
Activity: 966
Merit: 1000
April 20, 2013, 11:50:48 PM
#45
That red triple-headed power cable looks familiar.
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
April 20, 2013, 11:38:38 PM
#44
So who lied in oct? Nov? Dec? Jan? Feb? Mar?

broken promise != lie
Sure it does, they said they would ship at a certain date, they did not.
that is a lie
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
April 20, 2013, 11:36:50 PM
#43
So who lied in oct? Nov? Dec? Jan? Feb? Mar?

broken promise != lie
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
April 20, 2013, 11:35:06 PM
#42
Haha, do you expect anything less from Puerto Libre?  He's lied repeatedly for months, why not throw some fraud into the mix?  He's right up his alley, given his lifestyle.

Can you feel the epic wave of back peddling by the likes of Yajaira D Guevara and the rest of the clown crew as they try to claim they never said BFL was a scam or that BFL would never ship or that BFL never had ASICs etc... but they ACTUALLY meant something entirely different.

I expected that those who were emotionally invested in the whole "omg BFL is a scam" thing would have trouble accepting otherwise and would probably look for other reasons for BFL to be in the wrong, but honestly I'm slightly surprised that PL outright advocated fraud.
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
April 20, 2013, 10:02:20 PM
#41
So who lied in oct? Nov? Dec? Jan? Feb? Mar?

Months of lying from you mouth has been much more epic. You have more to account for than puerto. Stop deflecting lol

If I had a penny for every delivery date and scheduled release in the tech world that has been moved/scrapped I would have, well I guess a lot of pennies. Doesn't make all those companies liars. BFL's biggest mistake was sharing their timelines and estimates before they had a solid information, their lack of experience in the field surely didn't help either.

Indeed, you can be sure it won't be happening again if I have anything to say about it.  The ship dates were announced before I came on board with BFL and going forward, unless I am explicitly overridden, we will not be making any shipping date commitments.  It will be Valve time from here on out if I have my way.

Nice.

In your face FTC! JZ says NO to your silly rules about delivering stuff people paid for. Wink

http://business.ftc.gov/documents/alt051-selling-internet-prompt-delivery-rules

You da man JZ. Hey send those FCC trolls a get lost memo too while you're at it since you didn't comply there either. We know how Sonny feels about the man though, so nobody expects BFL officers to follow the same rules as everyone else. It's just the silly FCC though, Sonny is unlikely to go back to jail for it.
hero member
Activity: 575
Merit: 500
April 20, 2013, 10:00:16 PM
#40
It will be Valve time from here on out if I have my way.

Id much more prefer the Blizzard approach of  "when it's done it's done".
Valve time is like a crackling madman who sometimes does something and then says he will do whatever he just did in a few weeks time. Other times it will be "tomorrow" and then he disappears for 8 months.
legendary
Activity: 1918
Merit: 1570
Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending
April 20, 2013, 09:58:34 PM
#39
So who lied in oct? Nov? Dec? Jan? Feb? Mar?

Months of lying from you mouth has been much more epic. You have more to account for than puerto. Stop deflecting lol

If I had a penny for every delivery date and scheduled release in the tech world that has been moved/scrapped I would have, well I guess a lot of pennies. Doesn't make all those companies liars. BFL's biggest mistake was sharing their timelines and estimates before they had a solid information, their lack of experience in the field surely didn't help either.

Indeed, you can be sure it won't be happening again if I have anything to say about it.  The ship dates were announced before I came on board with BFL and going forward, unless I am explicitly overridden, we will not be making any shipping date commitments.  It will be Valve time from here on out if I have my way.



I was wondering where to put this:

legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 1019
Be A Digital Miner
April 20, 2013, 09:55:25 PM
#38
So who lied in oct? Nov? Dec? Jan? Feb? Mar?

Months of lying from you mouth has been much more epic. You have more to account for than puerto. Stop deflecting lol

If I had a penny for every delivery date and scheduled release in the tech world that has been moved/scrapped I would have, well I guess a lot of pennies. Doesn't make all those companies liars. BFL's biggest mistake was sharing their timelines and estimates before they had a solid information, their lack of experience in the field surely didn't help either.

Indeed, you can be sure it won't be happening again if I have anything to say about it.  The ship dates were announced before I came on board with BFL and going forward, unless I am explicitly overridden, we will not be making any shipping date commitments.  It will be Valve time from here on out if I have my way
rograz;
shouldn't you be back at BFL helping box the 400 jallies that should ship tomorrow?
Josh;
I know you have a lot of posts and probably cannot remember them all (especially the ones you have deleted) but it was YOU, Josh and Inaba that kept saying you were shipping next week.   It was also you who said that you had sent the device LAST in for FCC testing for approval and would be shipping first week of December.   It was not someone else.   It was Josh Zerlan.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
April 20, 2013, 09:49:13 PM
#37
So who lied in oct? Nov? Dec? Jan? Feb? Mar?

Months of lying from you mouth has been much more epic. You have more to account for than puerto. Stop deflecting lol

If I had a penny for every delivery date and scheduled release in the tech world that has been moved/scrapped I would have, well I guess a lot of pennies. Doesn't make all those companies liars. BFL's biggest mistake was sharing their timelines and estimates before they had a solid information, their lack of experience in the field surely didn't help either.

Indeed, you can be sure it won't be happening again if I have anything to say about it.  The ship dates were announced before I came on board with BFL and going forward, unless I am explicitly overridden, we will not be making any shipping date commitments.  It will be Valve time from here on out if I have my way.

sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
April 20, 2013, 09:48:31 PM
#36

I wonder how many other customers got their refund back as "a gift" rather than a standard (and proper) Paypal refund?


Who cares. Money tied to a homing pigeon would do. You spent months "warning" people because you are some guy that can spot scams from a mile away. Its obvious what you agenda is, so please drop that pretense of being a noble guy defending newbies from scammers. We are mostly educated people here with secondary degrees and skilled jobs and can understand the risks we take. Don't do us any favors with your high post counts.
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
April 20, 2013, 09:46:55 PM
#35
Man, I want one of them pretty bad. Moving soon as well so will hopefully have more of my own space in my room to set up something nice. Yes I still live at home, I am 19 so space isn't what I have a lot of at the moment.  Wink

They look good!
(I wouldn't order one though because I think BFL have tens of thousands of orders to fill.)

Time for me to find a new hobby because there will be less trolling opportunities here.

Time for BFL to donate to charity, say sorry to customers for missing all targets, and donate 1000BTC to a good cause:

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/content/123-bfl-offers-1000-btc-charity-if-they-miss-their-power-targets-comments4.html
legendary
Activity: 1876
Merit: 1003
April 20, 2013, 09:46:32 PM
#34
There is a good reason why Paypal account have metrics. The Paypal system is supposed to catch abnormal surges of money or a spike of refunds and alert them. Working around the refund process to transfer huge quantities of refunded money under the nose of Paypal is against Paypal Policy. This is "fraud" and "abuse" of the Paypal system.

There is a difference between them possibly breaking paypal's terms/rules and encouraging people to commit outright fraud. One get's you thrown out of paypal and one gets you thrown into jail, I'll leave it to you to sort out which one is which
Rograz, you can't possibly be serious...

If you potentially break/game the system then you are opening large loopholes. The refund process is simple and straightforward for a reason.

P.S. I don't encourage anyone to "double tap". It's just "the risk" you run if you refund someone through an outside system (or use an alternative within that said system). People are assholes when it comes to refunds. There is also no way for Paypal to verify that a refund has occurred if the customer lies about it. The people behind Paypal are pretty dumb about alot of things.
hero member
Activity: 575
Merit: 500
April 20, 2013, 09:44:50 PM
#33
So who lied in oct? Nov? Dec? Jan? Feb? Mar?

Months of lying from you mouth has been much more epic. You have more to account for than puerto. Stop deflecting lol

If I had a penny for every delivery date and scheduled release in the tech world that has been moved/scrapped I would have, well I guess a lot of pennies. Doesn't make all those companies liars. BFL's biggest mistake was sharing their timelines and estimates before they had a solid information, their lack of experience in the field surely didn't help either.
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
April 20, 2013, 09:38:33 PM
#32
Man, I want one of them pretty bad. Moving soon as well so will hopefully have more of my own space in my room to set up something nice. Yes I still live at home, I am 19 so space isn't what I have a lot of at the moment.  Wink
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1000
@theshmadz
April 20, 2013, 09:38:28 PM
#31
Josh is what I always imagined a Blizzard community manager to be if their bosses one day said "today you can post whatever the fuck you want on the forums"

What you might find even more frightening is the the fact that I try, and fail to, restrain myself a great deal when posting on Bitcointalk. Smiley



ftfy Smiley

Nope, you failed at fixing it, sorry.  I meant what I said.  Unlike many people here, I'm capable of communicating my thoughts and meanings fairly accurately.



I'm sorry as well, Josh. If your history of posts is evidence of restraint, I am truly fearful of what you might say were you "unrestrained"...

regardless, this is your day, that does indeed look like a working device, and I don't understand what you think to gain by trying to defend your supposed success?
hero member
Activity: 575
Merit: 500
April 20, 2013, 09:37:35 PM
#30
There is a good reason why Paypal account have metrics. The Paypal system is supposed to catch abnormal surges of money or a spike of refunds and alert them. Working around the refund process to transfer huge quantities of refunded money under the nose of Paypal is against Paypal Policy. This is "fraud" and "abuse" of the Paypal system.

There is a difference between them possibly breaking paypal's terms/rules and encouraging people to commit outright fraud. One gets you thrown out of paypal and one gets you thrown into jail, I'll leave it to you to sort out which one is which
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
April 20, 2013, 09:36:55 PM
#29
It is pretty sneaky. Though they would probably not want anyone to know that their customers might be able to "double tap" them for a refund.

Consider that a customer using Paypal would want an actual refund of a transaction. So they use that workaround to "send" the customer money as a ?"gift"? for what they are owed. The original transaction still remains with that valid refund button. So if that customer still demands the transaction be refunded and open a dispute....they may very well get to "double tap" the refund.

So you you have spent months calling BFL a scam and now you are encouraging people to commit fraud? Really taking the moral high ground here I see!

A small tip, when you are trying throw shit at others make sure to not stand in your own shit pile, your shoes tend to get messy that way.

Haha, do you expect anything less from Puerto Libre?  He's lied repeatedly for months, why not throw some fraud into the mix?  He's right up his alley, given his lifestyle.

Can you feel the epic wave of back peddling by the likes of Yajaira D Guevara and the rest of the clown crew as they try to claim they never said BFL was a scam or that BFL would never ship or that BFL never had ASICs etc... but they ACTUALLY meant something entirely different.




So who lied in oct? Nov? Dec? Jan? Feb? Mar?

Months of lying from you mouth has been much more epic. You have more to account for than puerto. Stop deflecting lol
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