I need miner not refund
This is why you'll get neither refund nor miner. 
Topic: Butterfly Labs refusing refunds? - page 3. (Read 5368 times)
Haven't they shipped out orders already?
They need to clearly represent the units take over 6 mos (at least) to turnaround. Based on the progression of the difficulty level, people would not buy the units as the smaller ones will be mostly obsolete by the time they arrive. Unless they have already ordered/received the ASICs for your unit, I don't believe they can make any claim of damage or costs incurred. CC is safer because you can dispute easily (AMEX the best, they side with consumer almost 100% of the time).
Funny how BTC loyalty goes down the drain as CC with chargeback are called for rescue
This is true!
All that will happen going forward is people will just use escrow services.
I think people felt there was a bit more of a community and trust with bitcoins but BFL have completely destroyed that one.
It is companies like BFL that are damaging the reputation of Bitcoins for the exact reason you can not do a chargeback.
I have to say I will never purchase any high value item with bitcoins without an escrow service.
terrahash and avalon are doing this as well, which is a shame.
They need to clearly represent the units take over 6 mos (at least) to turnaround. Based on the progression of the difficulty level, people would not buy the units as the smaller ones will be mostly obsolete by the time they arrive. Unless they have already ordered/received the ASICs for your unit, I don't believe they can make any claim of damage or costs incurred. CC is safer because you can dispute easily (AMEX the best, they side with consumer almost 100% of the time).
Funny how BTC loyalty goes down the drain as CC with chargeback are called for rescue
This is true!
All that will happen going forward is people will just use escrow services.
I think people felt there was a bit more of a community and trust with bitcoins but BFL have completely destroyed that one.
It is companies like BFL that are damaging the reputation of Bitcoins for the exact reason you can not do a chargeback.
I have to say I will never purchase any high value item with bitcoins without an escrow service.
They need to clearly represent the units take over 6 mos (at least) to turnaround. Based on the progression of the difficulty level, people would not buy the units as the smaller ones will be mostly obsolete by the time they arrive. Unless they have already ordered/received the ASICs for your unit, I don't believe they can make any claim of damage or costs incurred. CC is safer because you can dispute easily (AMEX the best, they side with consumer almost 100% of the time).
Funny how BTC loyalty goes down the drain as CC with chargeback are called for rescue
They need to clearly represent the units take over 6 mos (at least) to turnaround. Based on the progression of the difficulty level, people would not buy the units as the smaller ones will be mostly obsolete by the time they arrive. Unless they have already ordered/received the ASICs for your unit, I don't believe they can make any claim of damage or costs incurred. CC is safer because you can dispute easily (AMEX the best, they side with consumer almost 100% of the time).
I need miner not refund
This is very likely not the thread for you... Yet!
Laughted at this , this is all very interesting.
It easy to see a wave of refunds heading towards BFL in the near future.
I wonder what this will do to thier working capital , who wants to vote /bet that Josh end up doing time?
Unless he has some pretty large backers .
* I have nothing to do with this and never ordered from BFL.
But I don't think BFL has any special friends at the federal level , well maybe not anymore.
I don't think they have any working capital left or are running extremely low - otherwise they would just issue refunds.
By not issuing refunds - it is going to raise suspicions, it is doing untold damage to their already poor reputation and people that were on the border line before will now be getting cold feet and no doubt want their money back.
I need miner not refund
This is very likely not the thread for you... Yet!
Laughted at this , this is all very interesting.
It easy to see a wave of refunds heading towards BFL in the near future.
I wonder what this will do to thier working capital , who wants to vote /bet that Josh end up doing time?
Unless he has some pretty large backers .
* I have nothing to do with this and never ordered from BFL.
But I don't think BFL has any special friends at the federal level , well maybe not anymore.
You cant get refunds because BFL is a scam.
Yes scam
I may be interested in purchasing it from you. PM me with what you ordered and what your asking price is.
I asked for a refund and was refused here is a copy of the email for your amusement.
I am going to challenge paypal even though it has passed the 45 days because according to their terms you can not take money for products that they do not have to sell.
So I will see what happens - not holding my breath though
I am going to challenge paypal even though it has passed the 45 days because according to their terms you can not take money for products that they do not have to sell.
So I will see what happens - not holding my breath though
Quote
From: Butterfly Labs Inc [[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, July 05, 2013 5:49 PM
To: Chris J R******
Subject: Re: Order Number 100034910
Thank you for contacting Butterfly Labs. According to the terms you agreed to on checkout, all sales are final. Now that shipping of orders has begun, refunds will not be processed. Your order will be shipped per your position in the order queue. Thank you for your patience and understanding.
For Jody's Customer Service Blog, and more, please visit our new BFL Forums at
Best regards,
Sabina
BF Labs, Inc. Customer Service
On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 11:02 PM, Chris R**** wrote:
Hello,
I placed my order on the 6th Arpil order number 100034910, I was aware it was a pre order item - but you did state that it would be 2 months! I can not wait any longer and I require the money due to a change in circumstances.
Therefore I would kindly request that you cancel my order and refund the money.
Many thanks
Chris R*****
Sent: Friday, July 05, 2013 5:49 PM
To: Chris J R******
Subject: Re: Order Number 100034910
Thank you for contacting Butterfly Labs. According to the terms you agreed to on checkout, all sales are final. Now that shipping of orders has begun, refunds will not be processed. Your order will be shipped per your position in the order queue. Thank you for your patience and understanding.
For Jody's Customer Service Blog, and more, please visit our new BFL Forums at
Best regards,
Sabina
BF Labs, Inc. Customer Service
On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 11:02 PM, Chris R****
Hello,
I placed my order on the 6th Arpil order number 100034910, I was aware it was a pre order item - but you did state that it would be 2 months! I can not wait any longer and I require the money due to a change in circumstances.
Therefore I would kindly request that you cancel my order and refund the money.
Many thanks
Chris R*****
You know Chris. BFL noted at the bottom of each miner's info page that it could take 2 months or more to ship our miners. I remember reading it months before you even placed your order. Worst case scenario, in a few months you should receive your miner. You can sell it at that point. Or you could try to auction it off.
I was fully aware when I ordered the products that it said 2 months or more but they can not leave a a notice at the bottom of the order page saying 2 months or more for five months while still taking more orders - the 2 months is just a blatant lie - it is a complete misrepresentation of the facts.
In reality it should say 6 months or more.
I suspect this was put there to get around the 45 day limit on paypal claims.
No one wants to buy it - I have already tried selling it at COST price aka making nothing.
BFL will not give a shipping date or estimated delivery date or even say how many units they have shipped.
Why would a company not refund an order if they were financially stable?
I need miner not refund
This is very likely not the thread for you... Yet!
I asked for a refund and was refused here is a copy of the email for your amusement.
I am going to challenge paypal even though it has passed the 45 days because according to their terms you can not take money for products that they do not have to sell.
So I will see what happens - not holding my breath though
I am going to challenge paypal even though it has passed the 45 days because according to their terms you can not take money for products that they do not have to sell.
So I will see what happens - not holding my breath though
Quote
From: Butterfly Labs Inc [[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, July 05, 2013 5:49 PM
To: Chris J R******
Subject: Re: Order Number 100034910
Thank you for contacting Butterfly Labs. According to the terms you agreed to on checkout, all sales are final. Now that shipping of orders has begun, refunds will not be processed. Your order will be shipped per your position in the order queue. Thank you for your patience and understanding.
For Jody's Customer Service Blog, and more, please visit our new BFL Forums at
Best regards,
Sabina
BF Labs, Inc. Customer Service
On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 11:02 PM, Chris R**** wrote:
Hello,
I placed my order on the 6th Arpil order number 100034910, I was aware it was a pre order item - but you did state that it would be 2 months! I can not wait any longer and I require the money due to a change in circumstances.
Therefore I would kindly request that you cancel my order and refund the money.
Many thanks
Chris R*****
Sent: Friday, July 05, 2013 5:49 PM
To: Chris J R******
Subject: Re: Order Number 100034910
Thank you for contacting Butterfly Labs. According to the terms you agreed to on checkout, all sales are final. Now that shipping of orders has begun, refunds will not be processed. Your order will be shipped per your position in the order queue. Thank you for your patience and understanding.
For Jody's Customer Service Blog, and more, please visit our new BFL Forums at
Best regards,
Sabina
BF Labs, Inc. Customer Service
On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 11:02 PM, Chris R****
Hello,
I placed my order on the 6th Arpil order number 100034910, I was aware it was a pre order item - but you did state that it would be 2 months! I can not wait any longer and I require the money due to a change in circumstances.
Therefore I would kindly request that you cancel my order and refund the money.
Many thanks
Chris R*****
You know Chris. BFL noted at the bottom of each miner's info page that it could take 2 months or more to ship our miners. I remember reading it months before you even placed your order. Worst case scenario, in a few months you should receive your miner. You can sell it at that point. Or you could try to auction it off.
it might be worthless by then
I asked for a refund and was refused here is a copy of the email for your amusement.
I am going to challenge paypal even though it has passed the 45 days because according to their terms you can not take money for products that they do not have to sell.
So I will see what happens - not holding my breath though
I am going to challenge paypal even though it has passed the 45 days because according to their terms you can not take money for products that they do not have to sell.
So I will see what happens - not holding my breath though
Quote
From: Butterfly Labs Inc [[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, July 05, 2013 5:49 PM
To: Chris J R******
Subject: Re: Order Number 100034910
Thank you for contacting Butterfly Labs. According to the terms you agreed to on checkout, all sales are final. Now that shipping of orders has begun, refunds will not be processed. Your order will be shipped per your position in the order queue. Thank you for your patience and understanding.
For Jody's Customer Service Blog, and more, please visit our new BFL Forums at
Best regards,
Sabina
BF Labs, Inc. Customer Service
On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 11:02 PM, Chris R**** wrote:
Hello,
I placed my order on the 6th Arpil order number 100034910, I was aware it was a pre order item - but you did state that it would be 2 months! I can not wait any longer and I require the money due to a change in circumstances.
Therefore I would kindly request that you cancel my order and refund the money.
Many thanks
Chris R*****
Sent: Friday, July 05, 2013 5:49 PM
To: Chris J R******
Subject: Re: Order Number 100034910
Thank you for contacting Butterfly Labs. According to the terms you agreed to on checkout, all sales are final. Now that shipping of orders has begun, refunds will not be processed. Your order will be shipped per your position in the order queue. Thank you for your patience and understanding.
For Jody's Customer Service Blog, and more, please visit our new BFL Forums at
Best regards,
Sabina
BF Labs, Inc. Customer Service
On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 11:02 PM, Chris R****
Hello,
I placed my order on the 6th Arpil order number 100034910, I was aware it was a pre order item - but you did state that it would be 2 months! I can not wait any longer and I require the money due to a change in circumstances.
Therefore I would kindly request that you cancel my order and refund the money.
Many thanks
Chris R*****
You know Chris. BFL noted at the bottom of each miner's info page that it could take 2 months or more to ship our miners. I remember reading it months before you even placed your order. Worst case scenario, in a few months you should receive your miner. You can sell it at that point. Or you could try to auction it off.
I need miner not refund
Very nice work Flying Hellfish!
[...]Read the entire rule, if a company sells a product they must provide a DEFINITIVE shipping date (if no is provided it defaults to 30 days), last I saw there site said 2 months or more. This is very unlikely to be considered definitive. It is not relevant what they say in the contract if they do not comply with regulations. Simply making a customer agree to something that is against regulations will not relieve BFL of complying with those regulations.
I removed the word stock and it does not change the statement at all basically.
I removed the word stock and it does not change the statement at all basically.
Jeesh, brutal here! I said i didn't read the BFL contract, and just asked you to point me to a spot in the document, so i wouldn't have to read the whole thing. I am not BFL, I have no incentive for defending them, just dumb idle curiosity. That said:
I started reading the page you linked to, and here's what i found:
If you make no shipment statement, you must have a reasonable basis for believing that you can ship within 30 days. That is why direct marketers sometimes call this the "30-day Rule."
Boldface is mine. There's a reason. The reason is this: i suspect BFL was smart enough to *explicitly* state in their contract that they can not guarantee a timely delivery, thus saving me the headache of having to riddle out the details of the 30-day rule, which doesn't seem to apply here. In other words, they probably *did* make a shipment statement, making the stuff that follows the emboldened text inapplicable. Or not. If someone wins a hefty settlement, i hope they remember me kindly.
Edit: Really didn't mean to stir up shit here, i realize this is a sore topic for folks here. Sorry. Hindsight.
I agree that the terms on their website indicate they are asking people to agree to an indefinite delay (or shipping estimate if you prefer). That is what you are saying isn't it?
In my opinion "2 months or more" is about as indefinite as you can get and that is what BFL made their customers agree to.
If I have read your statement correctly, then BFL must (according to the FTC) provide the following information to the customer AND get his consent.
•a statement that, if the customer agrees to the indefinite delay, the customer may cancel the order any time until you ship.
I just sent an email to Paypal - pointing out what you stated - I will let you know what they say.
[...]Read the entire rule, if a company sells a product they must provide a DEFINITIVE shipping date (if no is provided it defaults to 30 days), last I saw there site said 2 months or more. This is very unlikely to be considered definitive. It is not relevant what they say in the contract if they do not comply with regulations. Simply making a customer agree to something that is against regulations will not relieve BFL of complying with those regulations.
I removed the word stock and it does not change the statement at all basically.
I removed the word stock and it does not change the statement at all basically.
Jeesh, brutal here! I said i didn't read the BFL contract, and just asked you to point me to a spot in the document, so i wouldn't have to read the whole thing. I am not BFL, I have no incentive for defending them, just dumb idle curiosity. That said:
I started reading the page you linked to, and here's what i found:
If you make no shipment statement, you must have a reasonable basis for believing that you can ship within 30 days. That is why direct marketers sometimes call this the "30-day Rule."
Boldface is mine. There's a reason. The reason is this: i suspect BFL was smart enough to *explicitly* state in their contract that they can not guarantee a timely delivery, thus saving me the headache of having to riddle out the details of the 30-day rule, which doesn't seem to apply here. In other words, they probably *did* make a shipment statement, making the stuff that follows the emboldened text inapplicable. Or not. If someone wins a hefty settlement, i hope they remember me kindly.
Edit: Really didn't mean to stir up shit here, i realize this is a sore topic for folks here. Sorry. Hindsight.
I agree that the terms on their website indicate they are asking people to agree to an indefinite delay (or shipping estimate if you prefer). That is what you are saying isn't it?
In my opinion "2 months or more" is about as indefinite as you can get and that is what BFL made their customers agree to.
If I have read your statement correctly, then BFL must (according to the FTC) provide the following information to the customer AND get his consent.
•a statement that, if the customer agrees to the indefinite delay, the customer may cancel the order any time until you ship.
BFL have destroyed themselves.
Josh is acting like a child in their forum -
Who on earth is going to trust this company - denying reasonable requests for a refund when they REFUSE to give a delivery date.
Josh is now stating they have shipped more ASICS than any other vendor apart from Block Erupter and then refuses to say how many units they have shipped. He then has the cheek to post this in response to a question
and as someone quite rightly says
and then silence again.
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/3703-josh-its-time-update-bfl-asic-status-3.html
As much as I think AVALON are tools they have without a doubt shipped more units and GHs than BFL.
I am going to say that it is just a ponzi scheme - how it can still say on their website orders may take 2 months or more for the past 5 months is the sign of a scam artist. All they have done is ship a handful of units so it actually looks like they are doing something.
Josh is acting like a child in their forum -
Who on earth is going to trust this company - denying reasonable requests for a refund when they REFUSE to give a delivery date.
Josh is now stating they have shipped more ASICS than any other vendor apart from Block Erupter and then refuses to say how many units they have shipped. He then has the cheek to post this in response to a question
Quote
So I'm curious how you know how many orders we ship per day?
and as someone quite rightly says
Quote
How about you just tell us?
and then silence again.
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/3703-josh-its-time-update-bfl-asic-status-3.html
As much as I think AVALON are tools they have without a doubt shipped more units and GHs than BFL.
I am going to say that it is just a ponzi scheme - how it can still say on their website orders may take 2 months or more for the past 5 months is the sign of a scam artist. All they have done is ship a handful of units so it actually looks like they are doing something.
[...]Read the entire rule, if a company sells a product they must provide a DEFINITIVE shipping date (if no is provided it defaults to 30 days), last I saw there site said 2 months or more. This is very unlikely to be considered definitive. It is not relevant what they say in the contract if they do not comply with regulations. Simply making a customer agree to something that is against regulations will not relieve BFL of complying with those regulations.
I removed the word stock and it does not change the statement at all basically.
I removed the word stock and it does not change the statement at all basically.
Jeesh, brutal here! I said i didn't read the BFL contract, and just asked you to point me to a spot in the document, so i wouldn't have to read the whole thing. I am not BFL, I have no incentive for defending them, just dumb idle curiosity. That said:
I started reading the page you linked to, and here's what i found:
If you make no shipment statement, you must have a reasonable basis for believing that you can ship within 30 days. That is why direct marketers sometimes call this the "30-day Rule."
Boldface is mine. There's a reason. The reason is this: i suspect BFL was smart enough to *explicitly* state in their contract that they can not guarantee a timely delivery, thus saving me the headache of having to riddle out the details of the 30-day rule, which doesn't seem to apply here. In other words, they probably *did* make a shipment statement, making the stuff that follows the emboldened text inapplicable. Or not. If someone wins a hefty settlement, i hope they remember me kindly.
Edit: Really didn't mean to stir up shit here, i realize this is a sore topic for folks here. Sorry. Hindsight.
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