Topic: Butterflylabs Huge SCAM - page 132. (Read 415652 times)

Dude, don't try to use facts and logic to convince Charie; Charlie is immune to logic and facts just bounce right off him.

I can see what you're saying, but still think pasting a link or 2 is way easier than even typing out that sentence.  What's the problem?

What about newbies like me or others that will see this thread but may not have the time to go searching for the answers you say are out there?

Would it not be easier to just post the links that back up your stance, even if it is beating the dead horse?  That way everyone who sees the thread will have more to go on than 2 guys slinging shit at each other.

I still agree with the hippie above, you can't just say "FALSE!" and expect people to take it at face value.  Beat the dead horse.  Repost the links.  Make it easier on your potential customers to make a decision.  It looks a whole lot better than sitting here arguing about it.

Maybe these apply:

FERENGI RULES OF ACQUISITION
---------------------------------
Once you have their money ... never give it back.
Never pay more for an acquisition than you have to.
Never allow family to stand in the way of opportunity.
A man is only worth the sum of his possessions. (From Enterprise, episode "Acquisition"; sloppy script-writing, as rule 6 (see above) was already given in DS9)
Keep your ears open.
Small print leads to large risk.
Opportunity plus instinct equals profit.
Greed is eternal.
Anything worth doing is worth doing for money.
A deal is a deal ... until a better one comes along.
A contract is a contract is a contract (but only between Ferengi).
A Ferengi without profit is no Ferengi at all.
Satisfaction is not guaranteed.
Never place friendship above profit.
A wise man can hear profit in the wind.
Nothing is more important than your health--except for your money.
There's nothing more dangerous than an honest businessman.
Never make fun of a Ferengi's mother ... insult something he cares about instead.
It never hurts to suck up to the boss.
War is good for business.
Peace is good for business.
She can touch your lobes but never your latinum.
Profit is its own reward.
Never confuse wisdom with luck.
Expand, or die.
Don't trust a man wearing a better suit than your own.
The bigger the smile, the sharper the knife.
Females and finance don't mix.
Never ask when you can take.
Good customers are as rare as latinum -- treasure them.
There is no substitute for success.
Free advice is seldom cheap.
Keep your lies consistent.
The riskier the road, the greater the profit.
Win or lose, there's always Hyperian beetle snuff.
Home is where the heart is ... but the stars are made of latinum.
Every once in a while, declare peace. It confuses the hell out of your enemies.
Beware of the Vulcan greed for knowledge.
The flimsier the product, the higher the price.
Never let the competition know what you're thinking.
Ask not what your profits can do for you, but what you can do for your profits.
Females and finances don't mix.
Enough ... is never enough.
Every man has his price. (DS9 season 6, episode 19 - "In the Pale Moonlight")
Trust is the biggest liability of all.
Nature decays, but latinum lasts forever.
Sleep can interfere with profit. (DS9 season 2, episode 7 - "Rules of Acquisition")
Faith moves mountains ... of inventory.
There is no honour in poverty.
Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
Treat people in your debt like family ... exploit them.
Never have sex with the boss's sister.
Always have sex with the boss.
You can't free a fish from water.
Everything is for sale, even friendship.
Even a blind man can recognize the glow of latinum.
You can't make a deal if you're dead. (DS9 season 7, episode 8 - "The Siege of AR-558")
Wives serve, brothers inherit.
Only fools pay retail.
There's nothing wrong with charity ... as long as it winds up in your pocket.
Even in the worst of times someone turns a profit.
Whisper your way to success. (DS9 season 7, episode 9 - "Covenant")
Know your enemies ... but do business with them always.
Not even dishonesty can tarnish the shine of profit.
Let others keep their reputation. You keep their money.
Hear all, trust nothing.
Never cheat a Klingon ... unless you're sure you can get away with it.
It's always good business to know about new customers before they walk in the door.
The justification for profit is profit.
New customers are like razortoothed grubworms. They can be succulent, but sometimes they can bite back.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer.
Employees are rungs on the ladder of success. Don't hesitate to step on them.
Never begin a negotiation on an empty stomach.
You can't free a fish from water.
Always know what you're buying.
Beware the man who doesn't make time for oo-mox.
Latinum lasts longer than lust.
You can't buy fate.
Never be afraid to mislabel a product.
More is good ... all is better.
A wife is a luxury ... a smart accountant is a necessity.
A wealthy man can afford anything except a conscience.
Never allow doubt to tarnish your love of latinum.
When in doubt, lie.
Deep down everyone's a Ferengi.
No good deed ever goes unpunished.
--------------------------------------------------

If you replace "Ferengi" with Bitminer, and "Latinum" with Bitcoin... that about sums it up.

First line of Wikipedia

Ponzi schemes can and often do have a product. Even if an asic exists if they spent our preorder money on developing it they would need new preorders to service the original preorders. That is a ponzi scheme. Bernie madoff paid a lot of people. He just couldn't do it without continuous new money

BFL most likely did premine with all the devices they are sold. They most likely did use pre-order capital to buy the stock in the first place.

But FFS guys, what do you expect? There is NO MORAL CODE in capitalism, it's about profit. You are all just way too trusting.

I have to be trusting too when I deal with people, but I much prefer dealing with people directly than dealing with companies. Especially companies that expect pre orders months in advance.

BFL is not a scam. But are they very shady and profiting from everyone else at their expense? Damn right they are.

Almost anyone couldv made a flashy website, paid a company to design an FPGA then start getting in pre-order money to pay for the FPGA's in the first place. I bet this company started on almost no capital.

And every step of the way they are relying on the desperation of the Bitcoin community to fund their business startup with pre-order money.

What they are doing is/was very immoral, but is anyone going to stop them? No.

Does the wider community still like BFL? Yes because of the promise of ASIC's sold to the wider community, but it seems BFL could be premining with everyone's orders and no one would even know.

BFL are like the Umbrella corporation. They sell a bunch of devices to everyone but in the end only they are profiting. Just like Umbrella making viruses and selling them to all the countries, then when a virus takes over the world Umbrella has the power to control the world.

BFL have become very rich off this scheme, there is no doubt about it. On their way to a billion dollars off the back of all your pre-order money.

No, what means that it is not a Ponzi scheme is that it does not have the essential aspects of a Ponzi scheme even if it turns out they are commiting some other kind of fraud or incompetent or simply unlucky or whatever else you might want to ascribe their tardy delivery schedule to.

As I said before. I am going to wait and see both shipment volume and reviews from members of this forum as they receive them.

Filed your lawsuit yet, Chuck?

That's not how burden of proof works.  The burden of proof lies upon the person making the claim.  In this case, Charlie is making a claim but has nothing to back it up with.  The burden of proof lies upon him to prove his claims.  That's how burden of proof works.

To add insult to that injury, the fact that all of his questions have been answered (many times over, I might add) on this and the BFL forums just further bellies the fact that he is simply a troll instead of a "concerned citizen" as he tries to play himself off as. 

Like my recap?

yes, it's fun

wow nice thread

Under the original plan a 5 Gh/s low wattage device I could just set and forget about made the ROI meaningless to me. I saw it as my contribution to bitcoin regardless of return. Under the price points, shipping schedule and TDP window, it makes no sense to me.

I agree.  It should be easier to paste a link than to argue with these people. 

I was in a similar boat, very very close to clicking the order button on some BFL hardware.... But could not justify it being that by the time I would receive it, the BTC difficulty will have risen so much that I'm not sure it wouldn't be a waste of money.

The burden of proof lies with you. You can't just say "false!" and move on. PROVE IT'S FALSE.
I was looking to purchase THREE of the BFL 50GH/s rigs, but from what I've gathered from this thread, by the time I GET a rig, It would be worthless to have invested the 8 grand to do it.

Lol BFL is just recently delivering a few devices?  Bunch of failures, and IMO con artists.

Because I'm not your personal secretary. Why don't you do your research before posting your crap and trying to pass it off as fact?

Josh I told you not to call me charlie outside of the bedroom 

Why don't you link the answer here for us?

Hardly classified.  You just have to read pretty much any thread related to BFL to get the answer to basically all of his questions.  Something our friend Charlie seems incapable of doing.