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Topic: Butterflylabs Huge SCAM - page 73. (Read 415663 times)

full member
Activity: 149
Merit: 100
July 12, 2013, 10:54:25 PM
My next step has been to contact PayPal's fraud department to point out the blatant and ongoing violation of their terms of service for pre-order sales.

Of course, my complaints would certainly carry more weight if other BFL victims would follow suit.
Would you (or anyone else who knows of this) please elaborate on the highlighted statement?  

Quote
From PayPal's FAQ:

Does PayPal permit transactions for pre-sale items?

A pre-sale item is advertised for sale before the seller actually has the item. Often, these items are sold before they are available to the general public.

A seller might use the money from the pre-sale of an item to purchase the item.

PayPal permits pre-sales on a limited basis as long as the seller:

    Guarantees shipment within 20 days from the date of purchase.
    Clearly identifies the item as a pre-sale.
    Provides proof, if needed, that they can successfully deliver the product (supplier information, purchase invoices, shipping information, or delivery confirmation).

The PayPal rep I spoke with agreed with my assessment that BFL is violating the TOS.


hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
WTF???
July 12, 2013, 02:19:12 PM
I have also ordered one because there are TOO MANY mix reviews on this site about BFL. From what I can tell, people are getting there rigs. I ordered however last month so I didn't expect to receive it for a month plus.

It would do BFL good to post on their site before you order a order date for "Pre-Orders", and the expected date shipping.

The frustration however is insane and I am totally starting to understand peoples frustration.

If you want to support the bitcoin network, you made a fair decision.

If you want to make money, get a refund now. You will never make your investment back in BTC.

If you want to get BTC as an investment because you think they will go up in value, you're better to go buy BTC and hang onto them.

Enjoy the ride.
newbie
Activity: 6
Merit: 0
July 12, 2013, 01:43:45 PM
I have also ordered one because there are TOO MANY mix reviews on this site about BFL. From what I can tell, people are getting there rigs. I ordered however last month so I didn't expect to receive it for a month plus.

It would do BFL good to post on their site before you order a order date for "Pre-Orders", and the expected date shipping.

The frustration however is insane and I am totally starting to understand peoples frustration.
full member
Activity: 149
Merit: 100
July 12, 2013, 01:49:56 AM
But that's the definition of a scam.  It isn't just: "take a bunch of money and disappear with it all."  

Lots of cons and frauds run with some getting return - maybe big return.  That's how they stay in business.  

It's called partial reinforcement scheduling.  If you want to keep 50 sheep at the fence, feed two some grain, then stay in sight of all of them, and they'll all stay, hoping they get theirs.

What you are describing is a Ponzi.
A scam is, most often, where everyone gets fucked.

BFL is certainly a Ponzi, and i suspect before too long they will pack up shop and move to Costa Rica, or the FTC will kick down the door and seize everything.

Either way, i feel like i got bent over the table.

If you have ordered from BFL and have not yet received your product, you are entitled to a refund whenever you request one (per FTC rules).
First ask BFL for one, they will probably say no but you might get lucky.
If you ordered via PayPal you can file a complaint with them even if you are outside the 45 day window. One customer has already gotten a refund from PayPal that was outside the 45 days.
If you ordered via BTC or Bank wire, you can fill out a complaint with the FTC and they will advocate for you with BFL to get your refund.

More people need to read this!

Quote
If you have ordered from BFL and have not yet received your product, you are entitled to a refund whenever you request one (per FTC rules).

First ask BFL for one, they will probably say no but you might get lucky.
If you ordered via PayPal you can file a complaint with them even if you are outside the 45 day window. One customer has already gotten a refund from PayPal that was outside the 45 days.

If you ordered via BTC or Bank wire, you can fill out a complaint with the FTC and they will advocate for you with BFL to get your refund.
newbie
Activity: 3
Merit: 0
July 11, 2013, 12:21:57 PM
I thought about ordering one a long time ago, but glad I never did.  Maybe if they ever catch up with orders (6 months maybe?), I'll reevaluate whether it's worth it.
legendary
Activity: 966
Merit: 1000
July 11, 2013, 11:38:49 AM
i ordered my product from butterflylabs like 2months ago sitll nothing i agree this company is nothing but a scam
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
WTF???
July 11, 2013, 11:34:35 AM
newbie
Activity: 20
Merit: 0
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
July 11, 2013, 09:17:09 AM
I have this feeling that all the idiots who scream that BFL is a scam will just disappear and make new accounts later this year. And there will be a few nuts that believe that hundreds of forum users are being paid by BFL to act like they got working ASIC's.

Nope don't seem them going away yet not until BFL folds.
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
WTF???
July 11, 2013, 08:50:23 AM
I hope BFL is already mining with the preorders... means the diff won't go up very much when they ship and the revenue will be higher than what we've been calculating!

roflcopter. That has to be the funniest thing I have ever read. I was drinking while browsing this and now my screen has water all over it. Excuse any typos because I can't see the screen very well.
newbie
Activity: 33
Merit: 0
July 10, 2013, 09:47:07 PM
Yep, scam!
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1393
You lead and I'll watch you walk away.
July 10, 2013, 09:47:01 PM
By time I get my Jally, the ice-age will return.

At least you won't have to worry about cooling it. Grin
newbie
Activity: 13
Merit: 0
July 10, 2013, 09:45:31 PM
By time I get my Jally, the ice-age will return.
full member
Activity: 149
Merit: 100
July 10, 2013, 09:23:03 PM
For those thinking they can't receive a refund, you may want to call Paypal (assuming that's how you paid).

The surprisingly nice Paypal rep said that normally they don't offer buyers protection after 45 days but because the account was a long standing account they would do it (opened in 2005).  About an hour later, the status on my BFL order was changed to 'Refunded'.

For those of you who have ordered less than 45 days ago and would like to keep the Paypal refund option available to you after 45 days, you need to contact Paypal before the 45th day window is up and let them know you haven't yet received your order.  That way they will track the status and your refund will be eligible after the 45 days are up.
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
July 10, 2013, 06:39:32 PM
Butterflylabs Huge SCAM -  YES THEY ARE
+100500
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
July 10, 2013, 06:38:11 PM
Butterflylabs Huge SCAM -  YES THEY ARE
+100500
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1393
You lead and I'll watch you walk away.
July 10, 2013, 06:03:40 PM
Don't worry. Bitcoin is going down in price now. BFL will start shipping as soon as the price is low enough that mining with customer hardware is no longer worth it.

They can't risk the hardware breaking while they are mining on it unless the price of Bitcoin stays high. They want it to last at least one day in customer hands. If it breaks after one day they can say it was working but you abused it. But if they ship it broken then they lose that excuse.

tl;dr
Yipeeeee you will be receiving your hardware soon!

I am curious as I haven't purchase to date... whom if anyone would you recommend for purchasing hardware? Or would you just suggest continuing to buy Bitcoin's through a broker as the prices just seem to keep falling?

My personal opinion, for what it worth, is that today's price is the lowest you will see for a while and it's a good time to buy. Think of it this way. If you bought Bitcoins instead of preordering an ASIC when they first put them up for sale you could already have cashed out at $130 and earned more than you could ever have made mining in the same amount of time.

The only upside I can see for mining hardware is being able to "make" Bitcoins instead of jumping through the hoops to buy them. However, you are likely going to jump through hoops selling them anyway so what does it matter if you do it to buy them too.

I also have a bias against purchasing an expensive piece of hardware with only one purpose. GPUs play video games, what do BFL singles do when your government decides to make you buy an expensive money transmitter license as a miner?
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
July 10, 2013, 04:47:52 PM
I hope BFL is already mining with the preorders... means the diff won't go up very much when they ship and the revenue will be higher than what we've been calculating!

thats some good thinking! but i doubt they keep them running that long!
newbie
Activity: 7
Merit: 0
July 10, 2013, 04:18:01 PM
Don't worry. Bitcoin is going down in price now. BFL will start shipping as soon as the price is low enough that mining with customer hardware is no longer worth it.

They can't risk the hardware breaking while they are mining on it unless the price of Bitcoin stays high. They want it to last at least one day in customer hands. If it breaks after one day they can say it was working but you abused it. But if they ship it broken then they lose that excuse.

tl;dr
Yipeeeee you will be receiving your hardware soon!

I am curious as I haven't purchase to date... whom if anyone would you recommend for purchasing hardware? Or would you just suggest continuing to buy Bitcoin's through a broker as the prices just seem to keep falling?
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1393
You lead and I'll watch you walk away.
July 10, 2013, 03:16:05 PM
I hope BFL is already mining with the preorders... means the diff won't go up very much when they ship and the revenue will be higher than what we've been calculating!

Change your name to MrPositiveSpin.
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