Topic: Buy the DIP, and HODL! - page 133. (Read 130594 times)

Certainly, I see a lot of traders coming into the investing space for quick gains etc. I believe what everyone should think of is how to buy on regular basis and avoid unnecessary drama for more benefit keeping our investment healthy for long run. If I’m not mistaking Katherine_Alicia is making use of dca and buying the dip from what I read it’s actually nice if an investor have the available money to invest on regular basis and still keep up with buying the dip, that’s a unique way of growing little investment but, firstly having an extra money to buy during the dip is not actually a force as everyone have their differences and situation, secondly the charts is a personal decision if an investor can successfully watch the charts without being tempted or panic but personally I will advice investors should not show concern when it comes to price movement or should we be talking about charts when investing for the long run? Because I feel it’s not necessary attaching bitcoin chart and investing when there’s nothing common between both.

The only reason why they lose on holding if they buy the news then get panic with it. But if they are fine even if there's fud spreading then continue to accumulate while everyone is panicking with such condition occur in the market then provably they are pretty much fine and no lose will happen. if there's a decline in value then that's just a paper loss and bitcoin ratio still the same with their accumulated asset. Bitcoin is really a safe asset to choose compare on other alts since for many times we see it having a great recovery after it experience a bearish run. That's scenarios should be considered by those who doubt about doing holding since they should consider those great recoveries and bull runs  scenario since for sure they will be fine on holding investment rather than thinking about short term then trade those shitcoins around since they provably be more in losing side with choosing that option.

Well, if you have started your investment then it's good to hear that, but from my perspectives I don't support the ideas of you buying only during DIP as it's not a 100% good idea to buy only during the dip.
And also, you don't need any chart thing as you are not going for trading anyway, traders are the people that needs to read/study the charts before buying, but since you are in for long term investment it would be a good idea to just buy as a you are aware of the DCA strategy.

I quoted the last part (liquidation)

That's a big meaning for investments made in futures, isn't it?

As I have implemented, I buy on the spot exchange and withdraw it to my personal wallet so there is no such thing as liquidation in the investment I make.

Maybe I don't understand or in other words I'm still a layman, isn't Liquidation included in trading because the smaller our margin, the closer we will be to Liquidation.

So the conclusion here is of course that we also have to have a way to continue holding Bitcoin in any condition and if we implement this successfully then we will see an extraordinary process with satisfaction when we reach the target in the investment we make.

Also agree with your opinion that we don't have to monitor charts every day because we are not traders. And also the purchases we make do not need to analyze charts because we are not traders. Yes, in essence we continue to buy and that is a DCA strategy that runs every week.

A little guide on how to go about it would have helped. Your advice to avoid looking at the chart always is valid and for new investor, it is not necessary to know how to ready the chart because it is just like a waste of time. Instead, he can buy from the exchanges using market execution if he choses to use the DCA method which is highly recommended for a new investor. If the option is to wait for dips before buying, this might also be good but a new investor should think more towards the DCA method which is more systematic and have some forms of discipline inherent in it.

In addition, he also have to pay attention to other things that will help him HODL not just how to buy. He might have good plans in terms of long term but if he did not make adequate preparations, such plans can be spoilt. There have been cases of people who plan to invest and hold but have no proper plan and in the end they sell their Bitcoin when issues arise. So, while we focus on buying, we should also make plans for how to protect the investment from sudden liquidation.

I don't see any easy possibility of taking any losses, aside from act of carelessness and just as you mentioned (playing out either in trying to sell too soon to buy back or trying altcoin as a means to become less stiff in your investment). Bitcoin is a safe assets to invest into, if the future is yet unknown but then history holds how Bitcoin has moved from so low to a crazy all time high, now also would serve as a history to the future only to those who seized the opportunity of accumulating  now and hold instead of relying on doubting the outcome of the market, whether profitable or not.

I know you are new to bitcoin investment, but I want you to know that since you are investing in bitcoin for the long term, there will be no need to read any charts before you can accumulate bitcoin because you are not accumulating bitcoin for short-term profit. Bitcoin investment is simple, and since you are a newbie or a new investor in bitcoin, I will advise you to accumulate bitcoin with the DCA strategy so that you will not need to time the market or read any charts to guide you to buy bitcoin at a low price, which may delay your bitcoin accumulation journey because the bitcoin price might not reduce to your entry point. With the DCA strategy, you can accumulate bitcoin even when the price is increasing or decreasing, and it will also help to control your emotions.

what sort of a quote is this? Even in the literal meaning of war or in making plans for your Bitcoin accumilation, you can't factor out the place of making some basic plans that aids you along your accumilation journey? It's not as though you must necessarily over plan but things like;
×. How much is convenient for your DCA
×. How regular you will do your buys per month
×. How you factor your emergency funds and
× even how much that goes into your spending while carrying out your accumilation are all things you need to plan for and ensure that you're disciplined enough to execute it as at when due. Plans are as necessary as executing them.

it's the knowledge that uncertainty exist at the other side of your investment that gives you a strong reason to even make plans for them and prepare on how to protect your investment at such point in time. Even if at some point along your DCA, you're unable to use up to the amount you've slated out, it doesn't mean your investment plan is faulty, you can still buy with what you're able to at such time and when things falls back to normal, you can then go back to your normal routine. If after making your plans you're faced with uncertainty that shakes you, so you care to know what would have been the case with zero pan for emergency funds and other necessary consideration?

I don't want to sound overly optimistic that you can never loose your money in your investment but if you aren't playing out either in trying to sell too soon to buy back or trying altcoin as a means to become less stiff in your investment, the chance of losing in your Bitcoin investment is actually very slim if you're doing the right thing. And I bet you aren't referring to market correction as loss and feel that at such point in time that things aren't going as planned.

You still don't get the point, I'm not trying to distinguish between DCA strategy and other methods of accumulation strategy because each one has there own purpose, also no matter the kind of strategy you feel is okay for you it will be wise not to think too much about the profits because Bitcoin investment is like a journey that comes with a lot of possible good outcomes on the way and if you get overwhelmed or focus too much on those outcomes you may possibly not going to be able to reach your investment destination, when people talk about DCA as a profits making strategy it sounds as if is like some sort of bot that generat profit even without much investment, so perhaps people need to understand that DCA is like a process use to achieve the amount of Bitcoin we would like and from the amount we have accumulated will now determines our profits margin in the future.

I humbly accept your advice. I think you're probably trying to figure out that the excessive attention from bitcoin hoarding techniques can be detrimental to investing. The underlying idea of ​​your words can help deepen the investment strategy which will encourage more DCA management in the long run. I thought that over-prioritizing Bitcoin investment would accelerate the overall growth but I was wrong because over-prioritizing may be trying to avoid the needs of our surroundings but we must give full attention to our real assets. Only after fully maintaining demand and supply can we set aside a portion of disposable assets to store bitcoins, a valuable asset down the road. Also aggressive buying can be positive for investors if they get the expected dips and they have a lot of floating cash which can decent the portfolio in the fastest time.

I could say that is the just the level of their mentality or some kind presumption but however, we are all here to learn from each other and at some point different people tend to to learn a particular thing in different pacing both new and old users, indeed the DCA strategy of accumulating Bitcoin are multifunctional strategy such that any one can come in terms with it with different reasons all together in order to achieve a successful investment, generally the DCA strategy is for all players in the field any one can make used of it to suit them with their own unique reason.

You are absolutely right i got it wrong after making the statement “everyone is entitled to choose an investment strategy that suits them best”. DCA have actually proven to be the an effective strategy not just for those who have limited options but also for people who has other options and have extra money to spare no matter the strategy they adopt. Those set of people may still end up adopting the DCA strategy but only with more money so it’s now clear that DCA strategy is not in any way inferior to other related accumulating strategies.


Why do people see DCA strategy to be inferior to other strategies and think it is sonly used by small investors who don’t have much money to invest, the strategy is very effective and can be utilized by any investor wether rich or poor. Being a strategy that makes it possible for people to invest any amount doesn’t make it to be for certain set of people (poor or less earning people), some big investors or rich individuals might still end up choosing the DCA strategy over it’s multiple options the only difference when compared with normal investors will be the amount they invest at intervals.

Although everyone has their own way and path in using and implementing a strategy to achieve greater benefits in the future, but in general everyone will definitely choose the best path that is easier for them to understand so that it will not make it difficult when they have made mistakes in the past that may have caused them losses due to wrong decisions. Because we don't need to be embarrassed to follow the methods said by others as long as the method is a powerful enough way to make us run very well in the sector we need now.

So we ourselves also don't need to maintain an ego that seems like we are still strong enough with the path we are taking now, but it is also good for us to explore suggestions from others before using them directly because everyone is also free to follow directions from others on anything. However, as long as the advice given is still reasonable enough for us to follow, such as in the example of buying Bitcoin and holding it for the long term by relying on the DCA method, of course it would not be wrong for us to apply it if we really like it.

You're absolutely right mate DCA method is not only for those who have smaller amounts of funds, it can be use by anybody just as you said earlier. actually most people just decide to use the DCA method to accumulate bitcoin in their portfolio not that they don't have the money to invest in bulk, rather they just want to reduce the risk. Well talking about accumulating in a smaller amounts, actually there's nothing wrong with that advice, you know is just an advice so is left for you to decide what's best for you depending on how much you're earning. of course you can invest as much as you can, more especially when it has to do with bitcoin investment because is only the most valuable and reliable asset in Long term holding.

Great quote! I agree, we all have our own roads and sometimes there is no point trying to guide somebody in another way, if the person is strong enough, he will endure and improve upon the mistakes made. If not, then that is not his road to finish.

“In preparing for battle I have always found that plans are useless, but planning is indispensable.” Dwight Eisenhower.

Life is rarely that simple, since what you can afford to invest today may be completely different than what you can afford to invest tomorrow, as anything could happen that could disrupt or wreck your perfectly researched plan.

For this reason anyone that is interested on becoming an investor should consider the very real possibility that not only things will not go according to their plans, but they may even lose money despite picking one, if not the best asset in existence today, and once you realize this your overall strategy and preparedness will improve, however we cannot be rigid about the way we think about our plans as sometimes a complete overhaul may be necessary.

After all, a great deal of the time when I read about what a newbie is planning to do in this market, which often involves throwing away their money in shitcoins, my first reaction is not to try to guide them to bitcoin and a long term approach to it, not a bad idea but not optimal either, instead I think they need to spend some time out of any market and seriously rethink about whether they have what is necessary to succeed, since even if they were to try to become a bitcoin investor, chances are they will fail miserably because they lack the right mindset and the ability to think logically about it anyway.

I think you guys misunderstood what Roseline492 was trying to say, is not like DCA is not for profit making because all the means of accumulating Bitcoin is for profit making perhaps what Roseline492 was trying to say is that DCA profit is not like other method of accumulating Bitcoin profit because you will be buying at different price of Bitcoin which sometimes you can't really tell if you have made profit or not but those who buy's lump sum or  during the Dip can tell for sure if they are on profit or not  and I have also come to realize that the best way to go about the DCA is to hold for long term. In summary the DCA method is also for profit making don't get it wrong.

Staying calm and true to the plan that you've got ( I mean anybody here) is key, even when waves come to shove.

Just like the saying goes, all fingers are not equal and your entire savings can be someone's weekly expenditure. Every investor buys at their own capacity. What Mr A might call lump sum might be Mr. B's periodic purchase.

So the deal is to buy at your capacity and reach your accumulation target, as long as there's still enough BTC supply to continue buying, the high capacity investor and low capacity investor are all doing a great job in their accumulation journeys as long as there's consistency.

For sure if someone is brand new to investment, they are going to likely face some challenges in regards to learning about (or improving) their cashflow management techniques, and one of the best teachers is experience.  for the brand new bitcoin investor, one thing is learning about investing and cashflow management, and the other thing is learning about bitcoin.

Of course, if someone had already been investing prior to coming to bitcoin, they may well already have some knowledge, techniques and practices that are transferrable into investing into bitcoin, yet so many of us bitcoiners (who have been in bitcoin for a while) likely recognize and appreciate that there are some aspects of bitcoin that might contribute towards needs to adjust some of the investment and cashflow management techniques in order to attempt to account for some of the unique attributes of bitcoin... and of course, the kinds of experience that a prior investor has might allow for better and/or easier habits when it comes to bitcoin, yet surely there could be some investors who might need to unlearn (maybe tweak) their techniques and practices so that they are making sure that they are tailoring what they do towards bitcoin... at least that portion of their investment portfolio. .and surely there can be prior investors with several kinds of investments in their investment portfolio and other kinds of investors with only a few assets in their investment portfolio and some of the prior investors will continue to maintain their earlier investments while others might end up gravitating their investment portfolio to become more heavily weighted into bitcoin.  

A transition period could be executed in a relatively quick way or such a transition period could drag out for several months or several years... depending on individual circumstances... sometimes there could be selling of other assets in order to accumulate bitcoin and other times there could be discontinuing the investing into other assets while building a bitcoin position, and there surely can be variations of the extremes and some of the circumstances might even change during the process of transitioning into bitcoin.. for example a person who has some invested assets in something like a 401k that includes employer matching might well be influenced regarding how much he is ready willing or able to invest into buying bitcoin directly, yet bitcoin spot ETFs might come available through his employer's plan or alternatively he might lose that job or get some other job, which could also affect how he transitions and/or considers his price exposure to direct BTC buys versus holding BTC through a third party, such as through employment related investmemnt offerings.


For sure, some general planning is necessary before even investing into bitcoin, yet I doubt that the planning necessarily goes beyond merely recognizing and appreciating that any money investing into bitcoin should be considered as a 4-10 year or more investment, so in that sense, the investor needs to assure that he is taking from his disposable income rather than from money that he needs.  Yes, if he screws up and concludes that he does not need the money, then he has merely made a mistake and hopefully he has other funds to cover up for his mistake of overallocating into bitcoin.   If he purposefully invests into bitcoin with money he needs or he is sloppy about it, as you seem to be suggesting with your example, then yeah, the guys is likely engaging in a form of trading or gambling rather than investing, even if he might have labeled what he was doing as investing he had mislabelled it since he had not figured out (or he was sloppy about it) that the money that he was using was not really within his longer term disposable income and it was instead money that he needed for one thing or another.


I doubt that fucking up with finances (or not fucking up) is merely a matter of having strong willpower, since anyone who puts better cash flow management practices in place (or works on the creation of strong cashflow management practices while simultaneously investing into bitcoin), such person is going to have more abilities to deal with fluctuations in his income or expenses or even to deal with mistakes that any of us might make from time to time in terms of our bitcoin purchases or other ways that we are planning to cover our various expenses.  In other words, if good (or great) systems are in place, then psychological preparation will follow from the putting into place strong cashflow management practices.


We are not talking about either crypto or trading in this thread.. or even the idea of what makes normies motivated to make money, if they come into bitcoin or into crypto (or shitcoins) with some motivation to make money.. sure we can acknowledge that the money making dynamic or even number go up technology of bitcoin is what motivates a decent number if not an overwhelming majority to first get started in paying attention to bitcoin, but going down those kinds of trading and/or motivation and/or shitcoin paths still seems deviate us from the actual topic of this thread.. which largely relates to investing, bitcoin and considering various dynamics in regards to how to accumulate BTC.. especially for a lot of newbies that might come to this thread or come to bitcoin... so fuck trading and/or shitcoins, even though we can appreciate that a lot of newbie normies are lured into those directions, and our attempts to stay focus on the topic of this thread or the main focus of this thread allows a large number of us to recognize and appreciate that a decent amount of value comes to the thread when we screen out those kinds of deviations from the main topic.. so that we do not lose focus, even though surely we can screen out those kinds of deviations and still recognize and appreciate that a lot of newbie normies likely make the errors of not being able to focus on something like bitcoin and an attempt at a long term investment approach.

Yeah, do what you like with those other shitcoin and trading topics or the ideas that a lot of newbie normies are attracted to such likely nonsense, and hopefully take those topics to  some other thread (or create your own thread) rather pushing them in this bitcoin/investing focused thread.


We already had higher probability of UPpity as compared to DOWNity, so you are adding a few more points to the UPpity side of the equation and removing a few more points from the side of the DOWNity side of the equation?  

That sounds like a "BIG so what?" to me... but hey whatever, you continue being you... it is not like we need to agree in regards to our differing opinions in which it seems that each of us has already stated our thoughts on the topic.


You seem to act like (or even to imply) that all investors have all options available to them, which truly might not be the case.

Some investors (whether whale or normie) do not necessarily have all options available to them, such as having something like a lump sum that is available to them.  If a person does not have a lump sum available, then the most likely starting avenue is to employ DCA based on their incoming income (of course, separating out expenses and then taking from disposable income).  

Even buying on dips requires having some amount of extra money available and then the employment of a choice to not deploy that money at current BTC prices, but instead to wait for some kind of an anticipated dip with that money rather than buying bitcoin right away with it.  And, we already know that such anticipated dip may or may not end up happening.

DCA tends to allow to invest into bitcoin (or wherever else it might be used) as a means to invest with the money (income) as it comes in (or as it becomes determined that such money is available for investing rather than potentially being used for some other purpose such as expenses or some consumption choices or even to save for some other purpose).

Usually whales are going to have more options than normies, yet even whales might sometimes end up tying up their money in various kinds of ways to limit their options or to limit the feasibility of some options as compared with other options.. which sometimes the lack of options is merely a temporary condition and other times it may well be a condition that lasts for a long time, such as with a poor person who is barely scrambling to put together $10 per week to be able to invest into bitcoin. It could take the poor person many years, maybe even 10 years or longer to bujild his own financial (and psychological) situation up to such levels that he ends up recognizing that he has more options besides just DCA... and just because poor people might ONLY have DCA as an option, that still does not mean that DCA is any kind of an inferior option, even though surely there are trade offs, even with DCA that a person who has other options may or may not end up choosing DCA over other options (when talking about accumulation we would mean buying on dips and/or lump sum buying to be the other buying/accumulating options) that he considers that might be preferred to his own then circumstances.


I that context, Popkon6 seems to be referring to keeping some kind of reserve fund that would have a purpose of buying on dips.  

Discretionary (or disposable) income is the difference between the income and the expenses, so really discretionary/disposable income can be spent on anything including on bitcoin investing or on anything the person would like, such as hookers, lambos and blow..  Sometimes we will measure discretionary/disposable income monthly or whenever a person might get paid, and many times there are several kinds of bills that might be monthly, so frequently it is more convenient to measure discretionary/disposable income on a monthly basis.  

If there might be various kinds of disposable income that is held over into the next month or into subsequent months then that could be considered as reserves and reserves could be tagged with various purposes or even kept in general kinds of ways and surely a building up of a kind of long term reserves that are never to be spent except upon true emergencies, then  that could be labeled as emergency funds, and many times it is recommended to have at least 3 months of emergency funds, yet of course folks will play their emergency funds in various kinds of ways.. yet sometimes they could end up getting into a pickle if they don't have enough emergency funds and especially if they might have had placed a high prioritiy to making sure that they don't sell their investment (in this case bitcoin) at a time that is anything other than their own complete choosing, so it could end up being quite tragic if a person had been building up his bitcoin holdings for many years and then end up getting forced to sell some or all of it at the bottom of the market because he had failed/refused to establish an emergency fund.

I usually would consider the float amounts of cash to be some extra cash that might be held within monthly periods or between paychecks and/or expenses in a kind of way in which sometimes there might be uncertainties in the amount of income or the expenses, and so floats might give cash cushions within the month including potentially covering some errors in calculations that might exist between pay periods or expenses.  Some level of floating funds might exist at all or most times, yet maybe sometimes float fund levels would be at or close to zero right before income comes... depending on various personal preferences in regards to how much extra cash a person might have on hand and how that person chooses to categorize such extra cash that he has "floating" around in his various accounts or maybe in his wallet or under his mattress or in the counsel of his car/motorcycle.


Long versus short are likely somewhat vague categories... especially when it comes to investing.  We frequently talk about for our buying of bitcoin to even count as investing then it has to be at least 4 years (or a whole cycle) otherwise it is trading or gambling rather than investing.. so yeah, some folks will likely refer to periods of less than 4 years as investing and then try to distinguish those as short term, which to me just seems like a perversion of the term investing.. especially when it comes to bitcoin.  Other kinds of investing or assets likely have dynamics that may well allow them to be categorized differently than bitcoin in terms of how to differentiate investing versus trading or long term versus short term investing.

Maybe in bitcoin we might suggest that if we are shooting to get to fuck you status then that would be long term, and if we are shooting to get to some interim goal that is something less than fuck yoiu status then that would be short term investing... but still it would have to have a time line of greater than 4 years to count as investing rather than trading.

These are the kinds of terms that reasonable people can have differing definitions, and sometimes it is better to define our terms when we are speaking with people who might define the terms differently in order that we can attempt to get to the substance of the matter rather than potentially arguing about largely non-substative matters.


Mostly, I don't have any objections in regards to how you described some of our objectives and/or our considerations in regards to investing into bitcoin, yet I am a bit concerned about any implication that any of us would need to plan our investment strategy prior to getting started.  It seems to me that we can plan and employ and learn at the same time while attempting to employ common sense in regards to making sure that we are not investing into bitcoin (or otherwise spending) more than we make.. yet it still can take several years to really build our finances, cash management and even our ongoing allocations into bitcoin into solid practices, since in the beginning we may well need to be more conservative in our investments into bitcoin and our management of our cashflows so that we do not end up overly investing into bitcoin merely because we might feel that we are in a hurry or that we are devolving into sloppiness in our own ways of planning, employing strategies and learning how to invest into bitcoin while attempting to set good systems in place to reasonably manage our cash flows.


You might not be wrong in your overall points laijsica, but you surely express your points in very confusing ways... especially since if you are investing into bitcoin (rather than trading) there should be no reason to get overly focused on whether you are in profits or not.

DCA allows anyone to figure out how much BTC to buy each week (or whatever other regular period that he buys his BTC), and so within DCA you can be aggressive or conservative and you can also combine DCA with other strategies such as lump sum and buying on dips... or even HODL, if you run out of money to buy from time to time.

Even a person with a 4-10 year or longer investment strategy, he might have to reassess from time to time or to tweak his strategy whether he is investing somewhat passively and potentially not very aggressively or if he might be more aggressive with his BTC accumulation approach.  

There might be some point in which the BTC accumulator might start to assess that he had largely accumulated enough BTC. or that he can focus less on BTC accumulation, so there could be questions about whether he might go into a maintenance mode or a liquidation mode.  It does not really make a lot of sense, in regards to investing to go into a liquidation mode, so maintenance mode seems more like an investment approach, even though guys likely have their various perceptions in terms of perhaps transitioning into some kind of a stage that has price-based or time based withdrawals (perhaps withdrawing in a sustainable way, if investment continues to be the preference).


Even though you are correct that we would like our BTC holdings to ultimately be in profits, with DCA and long term investing (and even accumulating BTC in those other ways), there is no need to be manaically focused on profits like a trade would.

If you already assessed bitcoin to be a good investment with decently good fundamentals, you likely are going to presume that in the long term bitcoin is likely to be in profits (even though the profits are not guaranteed), so your having had come to an assessment that bitcoin is likely to be a good long term investment, you invest into it an you determine your position size based on various aspects of you personal financial/psychological circumstances.. which also might deal with how long it might take you to establish your position.. including that if it takes you 4-10 years or longer to establish your position, you also would likely have to reassess your approach and your position from time to time, since bitcoin remains a moving target and how you evaluate your position likely would need to be adjusted or evolve based on changes that might happen between the time that you started your investment into bitcoin and various points later down the road.