Topic: Buy the DIP, and HODL! - page 146. (Read 142444 times)

Hahaha...so you are telling me that if I analysed the market and decided to outsmart it by investing in just a month (or even less) after carefully anticipating what would happen, I am not an investor? You are joking, I guess the ugly teachings here and other similar threads are now confusing many of you.

First, you should know that investment could be short, medium or long-term, it's part of the long-term investment plan that you HODL. Mind you, HODLing is optional, it's by choice and it doesn't make you any better investor. What makes you a better investor is what you earn from your investment and the consistency of the earnings.

While you are busy downgrading the person who invested his money and liquidated it in a short space of time and continues to repeat the process when the opportunity presents itself, they would have made multiples of what you who are HODLing make in a year. But what I don't like is collecting loans to invest, we should invest only the amount we can afford to lose, not the one that will mount pressure on us.

You’re absolutely right. Thinking or talking about withdrawing or selling your Bitcoin when your accumulation hasn’t reached a fuck you status is more of a trader’s mindset rather than an investor’s. Investors should prioritize consistent buying using the DCA strategy and probably when they’ve achieved the fuck you status or a state of over accumulation, then they may consider selling when there’s need to.

Investors focuses more on the long term trajectory of Bitcoin, the stability of their portfolio and how best to accumulate more Bitcoin in the long run, while Traders on the other hand focuses more on short term benefits of the investment. Investors are known for their adoption of the DCA strategy which encourages them to consistently buy and accumulate more Bitcoin without considering the short term fluctuations in the market, while aiming for the fuck you status which is a great milestone for investors, and achieving this status come with so many benefits, which involves

1. Freedom all kinds of financial stress or pressure.
2. ⁠Having financial security and a solid backup.
3. ⁠Having the ability to make certain choices without feeling any sort of financial hold backs.

And until investors has achieved this status and has access to these benefits and privileges, it’s essential to prioritize consistent buying via the DCA strategy or whatever strategy that works for you, try as much as possible to avoid any kind of emotional decisions, always have the long term perspective at all times and also focusing more on wealth accumulation rather than selling for profits.
And When you’ve noticed that you’ve met your financial goals and your portfolio is in an over accumulated state, then you can consider selling or rebalancing your portfolio

Trading is not a good choice for any type of people. Especially for a long-term investor, entering the trade is not advisable at all. Trades are high risk and people are lured here most of the time, considering these factors I think trades are enough to destroy an investor's investment. The trade will not only destroy the investment but also expose you to huge losses. I personally do not support trade and I am very afraid of trade. Because here I feel more likely to lose than gain. Although risk is reduced by gaining knowledge about the trade, trading is still riskier than investing. More profit can be gained from trading but the risk of losing here is more. Long-term investing is just the opposite. Although the amount of profit is less, the chance of losing is very less. So I think an investor should not enter the trade at all. A trader can opt out of trades and enter into investments, but he must enter into investments with the intention of going long-term. When a trader becomes an investor, it becomes easier for him to invest, because a trader's risk-taking capacity is high and the resulting market dump will not panic him. He will enjoy this period by learning the methods of investment.

Bitcoin is designed in such a way that you can buy as little or as much as your financial strength can get you. If your financial strength is $10 to $100 you can buy with that amount since I believe that you are utilising the DCA method to invest in Bitcoin and I also believe that you are investing for the long term. How low do you think that Bitcoin can go, that your $100 can get you enough Bitcoin stash that will be enough for you? What happens if you keep timing the market and your expected price level don't materialised, does it mean that you won't make the investment? That's why investors are encouraged to invest according to their financial strength, and not to time the market . And have long term mentality is encouraged.


Yes Individuals are always encouraged to do their own research when necessary or when you feel that someone advice could be misleading. But there are some certain cases that even with your own researches, you will still not get it the right and at that point you will need to listen to someone that's more knowledgeable than you. when you're doing the wrong thing and someone that's more knowledgeable talked to you about doing things with the right approach that will be more efficient and productive, would you still remain in your ignorance and do things your way? You can only neglect people's advice, when proven beyond reasonable doubts that they are telling you to do the wrong thing. That's the more reason why places like this exist so we can improve our knowledge and approach of doing things which ordinarily we don't know.

Mental and financial aside, I think a beginner who is interested in investing in bitcoin must have a proper investment plan. They must have a goal for investing and a time frame that they want, this is intended to get the best approach to their investment. All investment plans must also be adjusted to the budget they have without ignoring the need for a reserve budget, this is important so that they do not destroy their investment plans midway.

A basic understanding of what they are investing in is clearly important and they should have learned that before they decided to invest. It makes absolutely no sense to invest in what you don't know, so they should already know what bitcoin is and how to buy and withdraw and store it.

There is nothing wrong with thinking about prices because basically the market has different cycles. Prices fluctuate all the time and investors need to know when is the best time to do so. You can't completely ignore the price when your financial strength is only $10 to $100, meaning the lower you buy, the more bitcoin you have. It is not always right to follow other people's advice, of course because you have to do your own research with a good strategic approach.

Yes!
I remember some thread on 4chan from late 2017 the OP of which claimed that his brother sold his house to buy bitcoin and when the price plummeted, he committed suicide. Never invest the money you owe.

Those who take loans are hoping that the price is going to rise and when they get profit they repay the loan. It's such a bad idea to me. Do they ever consider that they can take a loan and buy Bitcoin at $65k and the price reduced to $50k? If it is 10% interest in a year the price might take over 6 months going to one year returning to the buying talk more of making profits.

My solid advice to investors is to get out of debt. Invest with what you have. Its better to have X amount of Bitcoin without debt, than having an X + Y amount of Bitcoin with debt. It may turn out to be X - Y which means there won't be any profit at all if it he doesn't get the profit within the loan timeframe. Such investors will end up paying the interest plus the capital without any profits.

They are exposing their selves on more higher risk if they let their balances stay on exchange since there's huge risk to lose their money since those platforms is vulnerable for attacks or scamming by its own owners. So to avoid losing money from unwanted incident grabbing secured wallets which they have full control is a must. People need to remember that Not your keys, not your coins so they doubt to trust third party platforms when dealing their funds.

So everything to go smooth a good wallet should be acquired or used so that there's no other bothering feeling will disturb them and they can stay on their lane focus on their accumulation without thinking other stressful events which is not necessary to get. Being in control is somehow make you successful that's  why always choose the best and don't get lazy in terms of security since this is more important especially that we are for long term investment with bitcoin.

That's why, buying whenever you are able to is the best thing. You buy the dip that you believe is the dip.
Because if someone who has done that and are looking for any validation from elsewhere, thinking that he/she hasn't bought the dip.
It is when the doubt starts and might discourage one from buying more. DCA, buy when you are ready and comfortable at all.
No pressures, no hassles, do what you have to do.

The means of storing your Bitcoin is one of the most important aspect of the Bitcoin accumulation process because any mistake in the storage will make all your efforts wasted. Holding Bitcoin in an exchange is a very bad practice because if anything happens to the exchange, your Bitcoin will be gone. Don't forget so fast how many people have lost money to hacks and some funny practices that those centralized exchanges do. Don't forget MtGox, FTX, Bitforex, and recently Indodex exchange hacks and how people lost fortune. This is why using exchange for holding Bitcoin is like gambling with your wealth because you do not own the private keys. The best option will be to use hardware wallet or any wallet you control the private keys like Electrum.

Switching to trading practice is certainly a pretty bad idea for those who have reached the middle of the bitcoin accumulation journey. Confidence must be there to prevent that mistake especially the confidence to continue accumulating bitcoin with DCA practice without having to cash it out.
A good idea is to continue accumulating like a routine that has been passed every week.

A good criterion to strengthen us to continue to hold is certainly not to open the exchange at all times. Because often monitoring price movements will change our minds.

We're not the only one that invests here, there were those that have been holding for years and no doubt that they're in a jackpot and have profited a lot to the value of the Bitcoins that they're holding.

And yes, it's about when the price has increased higher and from the bought price you've made for Bitcoin, you can consider that for yourself as a jackpot when you've profit from it.

Both are good as long as they're profit but many of us here prefer the long term because we've seen results, greater results.

The truth is any person that's taking loan to invest in Bitcoin shows that the person is not in for the long term. The person is basically in for the short term profit and is looking for every little opportunity to make little money by trading off the Bitcoin holding. Because the moment there is a little bullish tend and he see little profit, he/she will sell off the Bitcoin holding to repay the loan. Such people shouldn't be seen or considered as an investor. Because the approach adopted in the first place is not that of an investor but that of traders, because only traders will have that kind of mentality. And these set of people will never listen to what other people will tell them. That's why I don't give a fuck about them when they run into trouble eventually.

If you are a long term bitcoin investor, then think about that first, and think about how much BTC you need to accumulate in terms of your various goals in life and considering your 9 individual factors.  For many folks it takes 30-40 years to really build up an investment, and sure it could be possible that if you are already investing, then you are going to build up your bitcoin holdings faster, and so maybe you might want to try to get several years worth of your expenses into BTC before you might start to feel comfortable about the size of your bitcoin holdings.

If you have an income of between $1.8k and $3.2k per month with an average of $2,500, and your expenses are between $1,500 and $2,200 with an average of $1,800, then on average you have $700 left over that you can invest into bitcoin, so even if you were investing the whole $700 into bitcoin, it is going to take you nearly 3 years to invest an amount that would cover 1 year of your expenses, and surely most people down even have that high of a percentage of disposable income, and I would not even recommend investing all of your disposable income, since you might need some of your disposable income to cover your miscalculation in your expenses, or to cover or build up your various reserve funds, and so there are reasons to not invest all of your discretionary income into bitcoin, even though surely it is within the range of anyone.   When I mentioned the ability to withdraw up to 10% of your bitcoin holdings and to still have it profitable as long as it is  25% above the 200-WMA, I am not talking about you being 25% in profits, and  I presume that you are way more in profits, yet whatever you can do what you like if you think that being 25% in profits is any kind of meaningful thing.. when it seems like peanuts.  There are guys who are 20x or 30x or more in profits, and they are not really thinking about their level of their profits when they get to a stage of considering withdrawing their BTC.. and another thing is that maybe we are getting way too far off of the topic of this thread, since this thread is more about accumulating BTC rather than talking about maintenance and/or withdraw...and you seem way the fuck too early in your BTC accumulation journey to be considering withdraw or trading or whatever you seem to be considering to be selling with 25% profits, when that is just retardedly low levels of profits.

When I refer to the 200 WMA, that is referring to BTC bottom prices and potential ways to assess the value of your BTC holdings, even though surely people are selling BTC at spot price, yet they can valuate their BTC holdings by considering bottom prices, which is what the 200-WMA represents, and right now BTC spot prices is about 50% higher than the 200-WMA   The reason that I suggest that you can employ your sustainable withdrawal when the BTC price is at least 25% above the 200-WMA, then at least you are not at or near bottom BTC prices, so I would think it would be better to modify any of your selling to be less if the BTC price is less than 25% above the 200-WMA... and you should not even be thinking about selling any BTC anyhow unless you have spent at least a whole cycle accumulating or if you had front loaded your BTC investment, and again which gets us back to establishing a sizeable bitcoin holdings first prior to employing something like sustainable withdrawal... in traditional investments, usually the withdrawal rate is 4% annualized, which means that you need to have 20 to 30 years of your income/expenses in your investment portfolio to start to withdraw in a sustainable way and presuming that your investment portfolio is invested in ways that you are able to earn more than 4% on average and to be able to withdraw from it... so with bitcoin, I am presuming that once you reach your accumulation targets of around 10 years or more, then you should be able to withdraw 10% per year in a sustainable way to produce the same income as you would be able to in a traditional investment, but you still likely would have to monitor your withdrawal rates if you are potentially dipping into your principle which also becomes dangerous if you are withdrawing at full rates and the BTC price is less than 25% higher than the 200-WMA.


You seem to be quite mixed up in your expression of your ideas here.  DCA strategy is a way to build up your BTC holdings that is within reach of a lot of people who might not be able to lump sum invest, and it also allows ongoing investment into bitcoin rather than waiting for BTC price dips.  We surely have to get through our BTC accumulation stages prior to talking about withdrawal, and so I think that it becomes overly confusing to be talking about withdrawal strategies prior to making sure that we have reach sufficient and/or overaccumulation first, and many times, folks might go through a bit of transition phase when they are no longer really accumulating more BTC prior to getting into any kind of a withdrawal stage, since it does not make a lot of sense to spend years building up a bitcoin holdings and then to feel some kind of need to go straight into selling it.. and including that if you had been investing DCA, then your earlier DCA purchases would potentially be reaching their 4-10 year or longer timeline sooner than any of your last BTC purchases, so if you are long term investing into bitcoin rather than trading, then you should not be anxious to sell any BTC that you might have had just bought and so in that regard, your last DCA purchases might still have to wait 4-10 years or longer to start to consider whether or not to start to withdraw them.. which is also assuming that your withdraw starts once you reach a kind of overaccumulation goal, which of course, you create your own goals, even if you end up doing dumb things, no one is going to save you if you devolve into trading ideas and practices rather than an investment approach to your BTC.

Buddy if you are really interested in Bitcoin as a newbie, what you actually need is the basic knowledge and before this I think you shoul have been prepared mantally and financially any other stuff can be learned when you kick start your bitcoin journey fully, i must advise that you should invest with DCA method because it enables you to constantly buy with what you can afford slowly and consistently without any form of interruption and hodl for a long-term which should be your main target as a bitcoiner.

I don't agree that intending or existing investors should keep bothering themselves with what the price says, this could lead an investor to lose confidence in the said investment which may cause lack of motivation to invest in Bitcoin, despite how doubful the society has been with Bitcoin which I think is normal for people that has not been part of a particular investment shoul feel, I still believe that there are ndividuals that understands the authenticity and value accompanied with Bitcoin investment, even though you are still in the early stage of Bitcoin discussion as you said, you shouldn't be skeptical about Bitcoin investment rather it should be a matter of concern to you why many people will be in a forum like this having a discussion about bitcoin investment and other aspects of Bitcoin if not for its long-term benefits.

In conclusion the step by step knowledge newbies or intending investors should be seeking for about Bitcoin Investment and Bitcoin long-term investment strategy is the basic knowledge which I have said earlier and the basic knowledge includes how to buy your Bitcoin, the wallet to use in storing and hodling your Bitcoin for the long-term and  continue acuamulating the little you can gradually, steadily and continuously until you reach your level of satisfaction, any other things you want to learn should be when you are fully involved in the system anything that is not inline  with the aforementioned will be regarded as procrastination.

No one is saying that buying bitcoin during the bear market is not the best to buy bitcoin cheaper, but you are sounding more like a trader or someone that will prefer to be sitting on the fence wasting the opportunity that he is supposed to use to get started into his bitcoin investment and take advantage of the market with your DCA strategy by buying regularly weekly or monthly consistently without stopping for long period of time. It is a wronv advice because if someone have his money to get started, he should and not keep the money till when the bear market comes, that is a sign of unseriousness on investing in bitcoin.

Also you are short sighted about what the price of bitcoin will be in ten years time and this why you are talking about taking profit in the bull run after you have bought during the bear, whereas we have a lot of bull runs to come. There's what is know as the compounding effect of your bitcoin portfolio whereby, the quantity of your bitcoin in four years time will generate profits and when you don't sell, your new profits increases your bitcoin portfolio and that new size of your bitcoin portfolio will generate higher profits overtime. If you sell within a circle, you will miss that compounding value.

Those who are after small profits are traders and I also classify short term investors as traders too. Why are you in a rush to take little profit when you can just forget about taking profits and build your bitcoin investment to a higher level that you will enjoy the benefits in the future. Long-term bitcoin investment limits the risk of running at loss because the price of bitcoin will keep increasing overtime due to its value going up. What if you sell and the price of bitcoin didn't come down but rather went up and stayed there for some time, don't you think that you mighy spend the funds for other unforeseen challenges. Newbies should have the mindset of long term investment to enable them hodli for long and have good profits.

We must invest keeping in mind that Bitcoin is risky. Many times it is seen that we are too hasty in investing in Bitcoin. Many times it is seen that we become more confident in investing in Bitcoin due to which we even invest in Bitcoin with loans. Of course we have to keep one thing in mind that Bitcoin has market volatility so it is not acceptable to invest in Bitcoin investment by borrowing. In Bitcoin we must invest very carefully so that we don't lose capital, so investing in Bitcoin with debt I personally don't think is very acceptable because there is a fear of losing money and an urge to repay the loan. So we have to invest very carefully so that we can earn enough profit in investing in Bitcoin which will make us more interested in investing.

There was a thread where a member narrated how he sold his landed property to invest in Bitcoin. He was lucky to buy when the price was very low, and he was able to make a good amount of profit. Accessing a loan to invest in Bitcoin is a very bad option. The price of Bitcoin is unpredictable so I wonder how he intends to arrange the repayment plans. Pressure from creditors can make him sell his Bitcoin investment at a loss.

The best option remains investing what you can afford based on your income and making provisions for backup or emergency funds. Bitcoin is still in its early stage, there is no need to rush into Bitcoin investment if you don't have the financial backup. There will always be opportunities to invest in Bitcoin.

Exactly, the Dip is just an opportunity for an investor to accumulate or increase their portfolio according to their capacity because not everyone can be able to accumulate or increase their portfolio during the Dip. The Dip is not a must to accumulate more Bitcoin in ones portfolio but most people abuse it which result to panic and selling when investment is not due. Since Dip is not a one time something why putting oneself into pressure, why not relax if you don't have funds to increase your portfolio and secondly people who sees the Dip as a threat are investors who doesn't understand how the market works, I believe knowing how the market works will or is one of the thing that can bring success in our investment and not only in Bitcoin but outside...

How the discussion moved from buying bitcoin for long term holding to loan is what baffles me. The discussion have completely shifted to a new ground that is more or less a distraction. Why would someone doing DCA, for instance, consider taking a loan? The mere though of it simply means that the investor does not really have the cashflow needed to sustain a bitcoin investment for long term so investing in bitcoin may not be the best decision for him but to fix the cashflow. To succeed in bitcoin investment, there should be plans for emergency fund which will serves to keep the investment going when there is some development that requires money which was not seen or planned for in beginning. Without emergency funds, the investment is continuously exposed to risk. Taking a long is never in any of the process of healthy bitcoin investment.