Topic: Buy the DIP, and HODL! - page 425. (Read 123299 times)

I think that part of the calculation should be that if someone is able to save/invest 33% of his/her income on an ongoing basis then after 3 years, that savings/investment would have amounted to approximately 1 year's salary.. yet still another question remains whether the investment/savings is performing sufficiently well in light of the cost of living changes, and surely with bitcoin we have a decent amount of confidence that it will perform quite well relative to other places in which money/value could be stored.. but at the same time, it still could take several more years to get to something approaching fuck you status.. which is where you could afford to quit your job. .and that would be to get to the point in which your investment is stablely 20 to 30 times the size of your annual income and/or expense needs. 

Getting to higher amounts does seem to provide more options, but surely only if we continue to figure out ways to make sure that we are responsible in the ways that we are growing, preserving, and then perhaps later spending from our investment portfolio  whether that is strickly BTC or if it might evolve into the inclusion of other assets over the years in terms of ways to give us a sufficient level of confidence in regards to when we do start to feel that we can either draw upon the funds for expenses or other ways of maintaining the wealth and making it functional in terms of our own needs  once such wealth is achieved..


You are making some pretty BIG assumptions Winterfrost.  Yeah, sure maybe more people should be able to invest, but they just are not doing it.. and surely they are not even close to 30% so assuming that 30% is reasonable or easy seems to be quite out of touch with what people are actually doing.. which is likely hardly anything, and the more investing savvy are more likely in the 10% arena.  Sure there are outliers who invest higher, but we should not be presuming that outliers are normal.. when normal people don't do that even though maybe they should.. but then we get into mixing the what is with the what should be, which seems to be part of what you are doing in your little Winterfrost fantasy.


I would think that if someone spends 4-10 years investing 30% of his/her income into bitcoin, then they likely would not need to have as much of an emergency fund after getting several years into the investment because the investment can start to serve as the emergency fund...

When anyone is a beginner to investing, they have to make sure that they have an emergency fund, but as a person becomes more and more assets and wealth, they are going to have more and more resources in which to draw upon to address any emergency that might come.. and surely I am not suggesting being sloppy with any kind of financial management, but the fact of the matter is that rich people do not tend to easily get shaken out of their investments, especially if they have spread themselves out a bit (which is diversifying and not necessarily into shitcoin) as their investment portfolio grows...so if a person has been able to invest 6 years at 33% then that person would have 2 years worth of salary and perhaps even 3 years worth of expenses (since they live off of only 70% of their salary) saved up just from the amount put in, and if the investment or parts of it do fairly well, then there could be some bonuses in there, even though we cannot necessarily presume investments will end up outperforming other places that we could have had put our money (including out performing how cost of living goes up), which can frequently be reasons for having financial and psychological cushions in order to better prepare ourselves for a variety of scenarios.


Surely the amount is not going to necessarily be 10% for everyone, but your point still stands about not necessarily realizing the ramifications of your over doing it until some time that you might end up suffering a pretty BIG loss and then maybe not even realizing where you went wrong exactly... so yeah, sometimes there can be advantages to either being extra conservative or just moving up slowly rather than making changes too quickly and then getting yourself into a pickle (financially and/or psychologically) that you had not expected to get into.

Trading is very complicated and if you are a newbie, you would take a very long time to learn everything correctly on trading, because you need to know the fundamental analysis, technical analysis and also know how to read charts with coming up with your own risk management to help you, and it is not still a guarantee that you will not run at loss. All these things that I said will take more than a year and that doesn't mean that you have understand it all.

Trading has a very big risk of you losing your bitcoin, instead of you to be increasing it. Hodli and regular DCA is easy and investment friendly, as long as you venture into a long term investment. I will advised newbies to stay away from trading, because the time that they will use to be learning, they can use that time to invest and increase their bitcoin portfolio easily without much risk. Unlike trading that will expose you to loss and will make you regret your actions later. It is had to time the market nor to predict the price movement of bitcoin, and this is what traders need to know to make profit. Even professionals can tell what will be the next bitcoin price after this.

@lamgoat, don't sound as if trading is easy and it can be misleading too. Bitcoin investment is best achieved when you hodli for 4-10yrs and above with regular DCA and you will never run at loss.

You are right, a person should invest but not with all his money.
 Wise people say invest the amount of money you can afford to lose. The amount of money you can afford to lose means investing with the amount of money that even if it is lost from life, it will not have any negative impact on life.  

Investing 30% of monthly income will be challenging for those whose monthly income is comparatively less. In this case you must have successfully made the point that 10% of everyone's income is enough to invest. If a person earns 200 dollars every month then as 10% his income will be 20 dollars every month, if the same person wants to invest 30% with the same amount of salary then his investment will be 60 dollars at the end of the month. That is, to invest, he has to subtract 60 dollars from 200 dollars and make other calculations with the remaining 140 dollars.

I think everyone should have an investment. You have investment means you are big man because this investment can change the fortune of an investor at any time. Those who can hold their investments for a long time is an industry for that investor and the investor is an artist of that industry. This is why I compared those who invest for a long time to an artist, because just as an artist creates a painting with the touch of cotton, an investor overcomes a thousand obstacles and holds on to his investment even in the midst of market volatility.

As an investor I would always suggest another investor to invest in a long term plan. Long term investment plan is always better for an investor.

Yeah, that's already a lot honestly. But if he can afford that, I'm cheering him up as it's kind of seeing someone doing better in life and that's why there's a reason for them to cheer and be happy for them.

There were moments of my life that I can't even afford at least 5% of my monthly income and tried to get into some level because I want to maximize that time because price of Bitcoin was quite low during that time.

Yup.

As long as his financial status is fine and can afford to do that and instead of doing something with his money to nonsense things, this is way better than of those.

I don't think trading is really that 'very' complicated like you mentioned, what I would say as a novice is, trading needs total submissive attention from you as a trader, particularly when you are still new into the trading platform. However, there are a number of things one will need to learn before jumping into trading. In as much as one is able to pass through that initial rigorous process of learning the intricacies of trading, it becomes more simplified.

Most novice and inexperienced traders prefer to always look for the shortest way into trading thereby creating room for missing gaps of knowledge which only makes them poor traders. Saying that trading is complicated may not be far from the truth, but for traders with interest who are ready to pass through the basic journey to becoming successful traders, it becomes simplified.


Exactly, and I can say that this also correlates more with your above paragraph which advices us to reduce our over ambitious character towards trading. As an investor new in the system, you can still attempt the DCA approach and use it to develop your experience with investing, the more. But always have a balanced judgment on the volatile nature of Bitcoin and make proper research before investing.

Invest only that you can afford easily. Don't made yourself uneasy with your investment capital and go for things like borrowing money. Investment must be for larger duration and you can afford that only if you make things easy for your self. You can reduce or increase investing money based on your income.
I do agree that we must have two type of savings one is for bitcoin that is for long term and second one is for daily life necessities. For second one you can  spare cash or invest in things like buying a health insurance for the family and more. Saving money won't be of any use but investing them for a long duration will definitely increase them.

You should not send all your money to buy Bitcoin, you need to start with a comfortable amount so that it does not create any inconvenience for you. And even if you wanted to increase the amount you set aside for a purchase, this should not be the last one you have, you should think about the fact that for some reason your investments may become inaccessible to you. What will you do in this case?

Make sure that you always have savings that you can use if necessary, I prefer it to be cash that you will always have access to. Even if you always have access to your investments, this money will be useful to you if some kind of collapse occurs in the market, you will be able to buy more if you want.

This is great advice and thanks for sharing from your personal experiences. It really shows a healthy perspective, and your ability to be pivot/be flexible. I think that’s key to any investment. When people talk about investing they even go a level deeper and ratio out the split of investments from that 10% of your income.

My deduction from income ranges between 5-25%. Sometimes have richer months and sometimes more expensive so the amount has variance. Recommend ya use excel or google sheets to work it all out for you. I also don’t do the allocation all at once and spread out the “investing” over a month. Sometimes things come up and I don’t like to be over extended, but certainly by month end they are done.

Then out of the amount I split my investments like this.

%56 BTC
%5 add to emergency fund
%17 dca stock
%12 cash savings
%10 into my business

If you see someone say they are high allocated into something this is probably what they mean.

Every year I re-asess this ratio normally near year end. I do feel like I have over allocated into btc this year but maybe that worked out, we shall see.

Keep calm, hodl and dca on

The percentage depends entirely on the income level of the individual as there cannot be a general rule for determine the percentage of income to set aside for investment. For those gainfully employed using my country as a case study, living expenses is not more than 20% of the total income so someone can even allocate up to 50% of their income to Bitcoin and will not be affected in any way. unfortunately, not everyone have this kind of job or business. On the other hand, there are people that their total income do not even meet their basic needs, this makes it practically difficult making investment when basic needs have not been met. Finally, the average people can allocate as much as 10% of their income and still do well with other needs.

Different people with different appetite as far as investment is concern and what governs the general approach is the target. If you target to accumulate a certain quantity of Bitcoin in like five years, it becomes easy to calculate your income and how much you can set aside to buy through the DCA method or any other method that seems convenient for you. So, the target, conviction and faith in Bitcoin are some of the things that determine the percentage of income to be allocated to Bitcoin provided basic needs as well as provision for emergencies have been made.

It is said than done. I see 30% as something too big for newbies to start with, 10% is very cool and if the person has little income, he can start with 5%. what matters is the investors regular buying without skipping any week or month and before you know it in 10yrs time, you will be surprise to see the quantity of bitcoin that you have accumulated. Take note that there are some kind of emergency that one will be faced with, that might take up to 50% of your monthly income sometimes. I have so many needs that arise and emergencies from here and there, if you accumulate aggressively, it will become a problem in your bitcoin journey because, you might go back and sell from your bitcoin investment portfolio when you are short of funds, and this might chatter your bitcoin target goal.

It is good to use the money that you can use for regular DCA, no matter the challenges that you are facing and whatever emergency that comes your way, you can still continue with your DCA strategy because you have a bitcoin target. That is why I see 10% as the best option because you will have enough reserve funds to handle any expenses that comes your way. And if it happens that your reserve funds is piling up and you still have more cashm you can keep it and use to to buy at the dip or better still use it to add to your DCA funds. If you use 30%, there will be no way that you will be able to have excess reserve funds for other purposes.

I am talking from experience, there was a time that I decided to invest above my regular 10% DCA and I increase it to 20%, for the first three weeks, I was fine but later, I observe that the cash left after buying bitcoin for the week, is not always enough for me to use to take care of other needs and there must be an emergency that will occurs and I will have to take care of it. I got angry on the 6th week towards myself because, the cash on me couldn't take care of my family needs and other emergency. I got broke three days after I got paid because the moment I get paid, I just buy bitcoin instantly with the budgeted amount. This made me to think of selling some fraction from my bitcoi. But because I know where I went wrong and immediately, I asked my colleague at work to lend me some money to take care of major responsibility for that month. The moment I get paid, immefiately I went back to my normal 10% budget, and I was able to clear my sebt and could still balance other expenses. Since then I have never come up with the thought of goin above 10% with my present income. It is better to use 10% because this will not have effect on your income when you use it for DCA. Remember, slow and steady win the race.

If you don’t want to go into trading, that is the best for you since you already know the risk involved in it. It is better you don’t lose any funds to trading than taking a risk that is unbearable for you. Shitcoins are even worst, whether you trade or invest in shitcoins, you’ll just have it at the back of your mind that you’re in for a very big gambling and will leave you regretting every of your actions when the market crashes not in your favor which will happen sooner than imagined. Leave shitcoin out of your investment, if you want a good savings for the future, only invest in bitcoin.


30% is a big percentage of your total income to be invested in Bitcoin. But in some cases, it will be like a very good price to be invested also. You just have to check and balance on the advantage and disadvantage of what you’re going to face. If I earn $1000 per month and all of my total expenses for the month, including emergency funds does not worth more than $600 or less than $600, I will confidently put in the 30% ($300) of my income into bitcoin investment.

If for another example, I earn $2000 per month and my total expenses including emergency funds is upto $1500, then investing 30% ($600) of my total income will just make me dependent on my investment again, which is not a good way to accumulate bitcoin. Rather if I put in 20% ($400) of my total earnings I will have a lot of bitcoin accumulated than the one that invests 30% monthly. 30% and 10% of monthly income invested depends on your income and monthly expenditures.

Well it is indeed quite large, but I think it is good enough to invest 30% in bitcoin because other expenses and needs have been covered by the remaining 70%, I think this is very reasonable, especially if they make both, the wife and husband are still working of course it will fulfill all of them including in the reserve fund plan.

Therefore by increasing the allocation so that bitcoin ownership is greater over the next 5 years and that is my plan for the future how to keep allocating to bitcoin, of course I myself do not think of investment there are other things that need to be considered when there is a sudden urge then the reserve fund must have been prepared in advance.

Plans / strategies must be thought of far away, I have found the conclusion, as for unexpected needs there are funds that are ready for use, in this case we must be able to manage monthly financial funds and minimize excessive lifestyles.

That would probably be very difficult if you have an "OK" salary, but with a family/with mouths to feed. Finding another shift and a side job to add more income to save and invest in Bitcoin. It's also probably best to have a little urgency to get find more money. Because with the current surge and renewed optimism, we might not get another opportunity to buy the DIPs below $25,000 anymore. Probably something below $30,000? Perhaps. But the actual point is get the most of the opportunities you currently have, especially if you're young and single.

I disagree with you. 30% is a good amount to start investing in Bitcoin. Its not large at all its accurately a good start in investing and should not be considered as aggressive investing. For instance elf you earn 100$ a month and you use 50% for upkeep and sorting of that month expenses. 20% can be kept for savings or emergency fund and you can invest the 30%. If the economic situation is favorable there persons who would prefer to invest up to 40%. But i would not advice this bold step to family owners because need for other things may arise within the month that could take up some money. Bitcoins price is on the range of $34k it will take a long time to get 1 Bitcoin if you invest less than 30% when your earnings is low. But if you make good money like a $1000 a month even investing 10% a month can give you a good amount of Bitcoin at the end of the year. One thing for sure is that within this period of accumulation the price of Bitcoin might go increase or dip and it will affect the amount of Bitcoin you can buy with that 30%.

30% is a fairly large allocation because for me it is a very aggressive step in investing. However, as JJG said, those who do not have large expenses for their living are certainly a better choice to save themselves in their investment plans. Well, if they are able to survive by allocating 30% for up to 3 years, of course the achievements in BTC ownership will be quite large.

Apart from that, all the dependencies and unexpected expenses in life can also affect the level of allocation in investing each month. However, every plan has to be thought out properly beforehand to prevent chaos in their investment journey. Well, in my opinion, most of them are probably only able to allocate 10% to 15% of their income to invest.

That is the point of the problem, sometimes we are not unwilling to allocate our income every monht in a large percentage amount, but with the economic situation that still has to divide on other things that ultimately make us as minimal as possible to allocate it. That is not something wrong either, because there should be no compulsion that makes us ignore other needs, because if we do that it is something that is not wise either.
The most important thing when we do this is consistency, for me it doesn't matter when the percentage is more flexible, especially when our financial situation is up and down.

You are right with the implication that 30% is a lot to be investing into bitcoin and/or otherwise saving, jossiel..

Most people have trouble saving any income and frequently, 10% of their income can be a reasonable and even a somewhat aggressive target for a lot of people (even though surely some people have more discretionary income than others and if they make a lot of money, sometimes they can live a kind of minimalist lifestyle and end up getting up to decently high savings/investing levels).  Many of the normies can make quite a bit of progress just by going from near or at 0% to 10%, and surely if they can invest/save more than 10%, then the is o.k. as long as their other financial matters are in order.

Nice to see that you've got the status to put 30% of your monthly income to BTC and you're firm in holding that.

You're right.

Trading is riskier than holding and as you accumulate, you just do the sequence and the practice that you've been doing monthly or whenever you've got more spare money to do so.

The pressure is real when you're needing to get that losses you have just made and when you can't, the mental effect to you is greater because it's going to give you mix feelings.

HODLING is the best, no pressure, no need to think of what you have to trade but just to accumulate and sell in profit whenever it's needed.

Of course trading is very complicated especially when the trader is a novice that doesn't understand what trading is all about, in most cases people seem to forget the risk associated on trading because they are overwhelmed by the profit they believe they will make if venturing into trading forgetting the risk.

For an investor to have rest of mind is to avoid trading because in as much as trading may look so interesting in times of profits returns that's how the chances of losing is also there so the best is just to stick on investing on Bitcoin and hold instead of chasing Bitcoin price movement.

It doesn't seem to me that you are saying anything different from me... even though you are saying it differently from how I said it, but our conclusion still seems to be the same, which is to emphasize investing rather than trading... even though I am accepting that some folks might trade  so I suggest a limit of no more than 10% for the very beginners and 30% for those who have been trading longer, even though surely I would not even want to go as high as 30%, but we know that degenerate gamblers (traders) will want to go up to 30% and they will even want to go higher than 30%, just like the original post stated with 50% 50% as if that were even close to reasonable.