Can we Manipulate Bitcoin price? - page 49.

jossiel

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Quote from: chaser15 on October 19, 2016, 10:46:01 PM

Quote from: diodio5 on October 19, 2016, 06:43:18 PM

yeah true what you say that more and more users bitcoin it will be increasingly difficult for traders to manipulate prices,
which is why the adoption will be very important because many users will make bitcoin become stronger

Treating bitcoin as a currency is enough to make such difficulty in bitcoin price manipulation.

Also with the lots of distributed coins today, the most amount of coins are not only on those big hoarders. Well since manipulation is kinda difficult today in bitcoin, they can still start a panic in some of the big exchanges that will result for a price increase or decrease. Up to others now if they will follow the trend.

You have the point with it and I think we are the ones who are manipulating the price of bitcoin so if there is high demand for bitcoin.

Then that is going to make the price increase and if there is more supply then that will make the demand lower and it will affect the price.

Just apply the law of supply and demand.

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Quote from: diodio5 on October 19, 2016, 06:43:18 PM

yeah true what you say that more and more users bitcoin it will be increasingly difficult for traders to manipulate prices,
which is why the adoption will be very important because many users will make bitcoin become stronger

Treating bitcoin as a currency is enough to make such difficulty in bitcoin price manipulation.

Also with the lots of distributed coins today, the most amount of coins are not only on those big hoarders. Well since manipulation is kinda difficult today in bitcoin, they can still start a panic in some of the big exchanges that will result for a price increase or decrease. Up to others now if they will follow the trend.

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Quote from: arseaboy on October 19, 2016, 12:40:20 PM

For those who are big players I think they have method of manipulating the price of the bitcoin. But for someone like us we really don't have a way to do it.. it really varies on how we predict the movement of the bitcoin price.

Well that is I am believing that the people who are big investors or big players or the so called 'whales' in bitcoin industry are the ones who are manipulating the price of bitcoin. But base upon the economy of bitcoin, we are the ones who needs to be responsible with bitcoin as because we make the demand of bitcoin higher then the price will be manipulated and becomes higher.

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Quote from: Ziskinberg on October 18, 2016, 09:33:23 AM

Quote from: blackmachinegun on October 18, 2016, 05:01:58 AM

Quote from: CasinoBetGame on October 17, 2016, 03:50:27 PM

you can manipulate bitcoin price
but you must have big capital money and big bitcoin, in to you can take profit

I think manipulate the price of bitcoin is not easy especially if users bitcoin more would be more difficult to create panic to
all users, I think if this method fails will be very harmful to you?

The higher the adoption rate the lesser the power of the whales to manipulate the price of bitcoin, what they will do is just to hold their bitcoins and witness the price increasing because they are hoarding their bitcoins.

yeah true what you say that more and more users bitcoin it will be increasingly difficult for traders to manipulate prices,
which is why the adoption will be very important because many users will make bitcoin become stronger

bitdumper

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yes and this is normally seen by the normal buy and sellctheory which everyone has already done hundreds of time but i think there are some problems for the big whales the first problem is the can not huge balances at a single time they have to split their balances and another problem is the comfortable envirnment with the trading platform

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Quote from: choppork on October 19, 2016, 12:04:13 AM

There's a lot of Bitcoins in circulation, the market is so huge too. It should be just a common sense to know that we cannot manipulate the Bitcoin's price. The only ones that can are those that have invested millions of dollars in Bitcoin while we, simple Bitcoiners, do not have that kind of money to ever make the price of Bitcoin move a little. But I guess if you do have a way to convince Bitcoiners to join you and pump or dump altogether, you guys can make a difference.

Sometimes I ask myself if I can make a difference in the determination of the price of bitcoin but alas there is nothing I can do. I share the same position with you because for anyone or group of people to make a difference in a case of Bitcoin as we are discussing, then they should hold sizeable amount of the coin in circulation. According to one report that I read, there are about 21 million bitcoins in circulation, how much do I have may be 0.2btc which cannot even make any difference so I will say our holdings is not enough to make such manipulation and even if it does will everyone be willing to go same way?...

arseaboy

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For those who are big players I think they have method of manipulating the price of the bitcoin. But for someone like us we really don't have a way to do it.. it really varies on how we predict the movement of the bitcoin price.

Goldman Enterprises

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Two Ways:

Either with someone who has a lot of bitcoin, (I mean a lot) and can use market power to manipulate the price, essentially simulating a pump and dump.

Or manipulate peoples expectations of the market, for example if everyone things btc will drop in price then eventually it will and vice-versa. If you look at Augmented Phillips Curve for example, inflation = expected inflation, you affect everyone's expectations and see through it to make a profit, Br-exit is a good example.

-Source, Some Macroeconomics research I've done here and there

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Quote from: Ziskinberg on October 18, 2016, 09:33:23 AM

Quote from: blackmachinegun on October 18, 2016, 05:01:58 AM

Quote from: CasinoBetGame on October 17, 2016, 03:50:27 PM

you can manipulate bitcoin price
but you must have big capital money and big bitcoin, in to you can take profit

I think manipulate the price of bitcoin is not easy especially if users bitcoin more would be more difficult to create panic to all users, I think if this method fails will be very harmful to you?

The higher the adoption rate the lesser the power of the whales to manipulate the price of bitcoin, what they will do is just to hold their bitcoins and witness the price increasing because they are hoarding their bitcoins.

I'm afraid that it might not work this way. How come? The higher adoption would lead to bitcoins moving from the financial into the real sector, and their usage from a speculative financial asset into a currency. But since the number of bitcoins can be considered constant, that would necessarily mean the number of bitcoins traded should diminish, markets become thin, and, consequently, the power of whales will only increase...

In other words, you would be able to move the price with less amount of bitcoins

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Quote from: choppork on October 19, 2016, 12:04:13 AM

There's a lot of Bitcoins in circulation, the market is so huge too. It should be just a common sense to know that we cannot manipulate the Bitcoin's price. The only ones that can are those that have invested millions of dollars in Bitcoin while we, simple Bitcoiners, do not have that kind of money to ever make the price of Bitcoin move a little. But I guess if you do have a way to convince Bitcoiners to join you and pump or dump altogether, you guys can make a difference.

Then the answer is still the market can be manipulated but not all of us has the capability to do so. I am here in bitcoin because of the price fluctuation and I can earn by doing trading, and i do not care if they will manipulate as long as I am making money regularly.

choppork

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There's a lot of Bitcoins in circulation, the market is so huge too. It should be just a common sense to know that we cannot manipulate the Bitcoin's price. The only ones that can are those that have invested millions of dollars in Bitcoin while we, simple Bitcoiners, do not have that kind of money to ever make the price of Bitcoin move a little. But I guess if you do have a way to convince Bitcoiners to join you and pump or dump altogether, you guys can make a difference.

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Quote from: goldcoinminer on October 18, 2016, 10:40:02 PM

Quote from: blackmachinegun on October 18, 2016, 07:02:57 PM

Quote from: darety1 on October 17, 2016, 02:49:52 AM

One man can not do anything but the whole people that are intersted in bitcoins can.

I think it might have done if you have a lot of capital is certainly it will be easier you can change a lot of people or your team with a robot, although it will be tricky, I think the price manipulation would be much easier when you use help of robots

I don not get what you mean in your explanation, why would we need a robot to manipulate the price, I guess that is just on the technicalities that you are talking but in general only those who are holding a big percentage of the total circulation can manipulate the price of bitcoin.

I wonder how the holder of a large number of Bitcoins will be able to manipulate the price. How to do it in practice? In any case, he is the holder does not do. A price rise due to excess demand over supply Bitcoin

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Quote from: blackmachinegun on October 18, 2016, 07:02:57 PM

Quote from: darety1 on October 17, 2016, 02:49:52 AM

One man can not do anything but the whole people that are intersted in bitcoins can.

I think it might have done if you have a lot of capital is certainly it will be easier you can change a lot of people or your team with a robot, although it will be tricky, I think the price manipulation would be much easier when you use help of robots

I don not get what you mean in your explanation, why would we need a robot to manipulate the price, I guess that is just on the technicalities that you are talking but in general only those who are holding a big percentage of the total circulation can manipulate the price of bitcoin.

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Quote from: Yakamoto on October 18, 2016, 06:46:31 PM

Quote from: ajun96 on October 18, 2016, 06:26:01 PM

Quote from: Doamader on October 18, 2016, 10:23:02 AM

Well whales will always be able to join their power and make price jump, but if the market isnt ready those pump wont last, thats the reality, a milionaire can pump bitcoin, but the risk to those are high, community support will always be in the other side, if they dont accept the new price someone will dump their coins.

I think for the moment where the bitcoin users still quite a bit of billionaire could have manipulated the price of pump prices as they only need to panic buying by raising the price a little, and then the pump will occur. yeah of course the risk is great because it is very likely to fail

You don't need a billionaire to manipulate te Bitcoin price, all you need is maybe a few hundred thousand or million and with good enough bots you'll be able to make a fair amount of change occur, and likely a fair amount of money as well.

Individually, without extreme coordination, it is impossible to manipulate the price. Assuming you're an average person.

Promotion is the good way to manipulate the price since bitcoin is attracted because of giving benefits i think it can increase the value without be billionaire..

blackmachinegun

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Quote from: darety1 on October 17, 2016, 02:49:52 AM

One man can not do anything but the whole people that are intersted in bitcoins can.

I think it might have done if you have a lot of capital is certainly it will be easier you can change a lot of people or your team with a robot, although it will be tricky, I think the price manipulation would be much easier when you use help of robots

Yakamoto

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Quote from: ajun96 on October 18, 2016, 06:26:01 PM

Quote from: Doamader on October 18, 2016, 10:23:02 AM

Well whales will always be able to join their power and make price jump, but if the market isnt ready those pump wont last, thats the reality, a milionaire can pump bitcoin, but the risk to those are high, community support will always be in the other side, if they dont accept the new price someone will dump their coins.

I think for the moment where the bitcoin users still quite a bit of billionaire could have manipulated the price of pump prices as they only need to panic buying by raising the price a little, and then the pump will occur. yeah of course the risk is great because it is very likely to fail

You don't need a billionaire to manipulate te Bitcoin price, all you need is maybe a few hundred thousand or million and with good enough bots you'll be able to make a fair amount of change occur, and likely a fair amount of money as well.

Individually, without extreme coordination, it is impossible to manipulate the price. Assuming you're an average person.

ajun96

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Quote from: Doamader on October 18, 2016, 10:23:02 AM

Well whales will always be able to join their power and make price jump, but if the market isnt ready those pump wont last, thats the reality, a milionaire can pump bitcoin, but the risk to those are high, community support will always be in the other side, if they dont accept the new price someone will dump their coins.

I think for the moment where the bitcoin users still quite a bit of billionaire could have manipulated the price of pump prices as they only need to panic buying by raising the price a little, and then the pump will occur. yeah of course the risk is great because it is very likely to fail

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Quote from: Doamader on October 18, 2016, 10:23:02 AM

Well whales will always be able to join their power and make price jump, but if the market isnt ready those pump wont last, thats the reality, a milionaire can pump bitcoin, but the risk to those are high, community support will always be in the other side, if they dont accept the new price someone will dump their coins.

They are the ones who are really controlling bitcoins price and the fact that they are able to make the price pump whenever they want. And with just their single move they are able to make good movement whether they want it to become higher or not. Because of what they are doing holding a lot and that is also considered as hoarding.

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Well whales will always be able to join their power and make price jump, but if the market isnt ready those pump wont last, thats the reality, a milionaire can pump bitcoin, but the risk to those are high, community support will always be in the other side, if they dont accept the new price someone will dump their coins.

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Quote from: blackmachinegun on October 18, 2016, 05:01:58 AM

Quote from: CasinoBetGame on October 17, 2016, 03:50:27 PM

you can manipulate bitcoin price
but you must have big capital money and big bitcoin, in to you can take profit

I think manipulate the price of bitcoin is not easy especially if users bitcoin more would be more difficult to create panic to all users, I think if this method fails will be very harmful to you?

The higher the adoption rate the lesser the power of the whales to manipulate the price of bitcoin, what they will do is just to hold their bitcoins and witness the price increasing because they are hoarding their bitcoins.

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