Topic: Canaan scammed me for 6000$+ - page 3. (Read 817 times)

So, a littlle added context here that I managed to gather from a quick lookup into Canaan, Inc. that might help us better understand the situation.



Apparently, they are quite an established company, had been around since 2013 with HQ in Beijing and spread their wings to the US in 2019, even decided to go IPO on November of the same year. They are even SEC compliant, which hugely explains their rule of only accepting to refund to original wallet, perhaps as a requirement for AML, as well as confirming their reason that the refund process is quite difficult due to being divided into departments --not to mention regions as well-- so Coco's claim that the decision of refund is not on their hand and they're bound by the refund rule is somewhat believable. This company --according to wikipedia-- housed more than 300 employees. Apparently, they are not a micro company or a home online shopping provider. It is quite logical that the decision of refund is handed by other people or even the higher paycheck.

Now, with these info in our hand...

---

I think the decision to only accepting refund to be sent to the original address is due to this:


original: https://prnt.sc/d8Y2Td9AYO4h


Canaan is listed and monitored by SEC, I think they have to stay AML compliant, and the address was marked as a suspicious, which understandably discourage them to fulfill the request by OP.

For Canaan Online Shop, if my assumption above is true, do you mind disclosing the result from the third party which flagged the transaction? It'll greatly help us to understand the situation if every fact is checked and verified.

While for OP, CanaanScammers,


It is important to get everything straight and every corner covered, and especially became more important because as per your latest two screenshots it is revealed that you rather keep provoking them while they tried to be nice, whilst the previous impression you create from the screenshots --at least for me-- is that they suddenly went radio silent which angered you and made you throw tantrum. It IS a huge difference.

As for the "NAZI check", you keep refusing to explain what are these about, and I am somewhat beginning to thinking that you exaggerating this verification, making them looks like a huge and troublesome verification --which even after all those trouble, the Canaan still denies your request-- in order to build an opinion that Canaan made impossible request to prevent you from completing refund process, while maybe, just maybe, these "ten NAZI check" are not more than showing screenshot of purchase, TX ID, photo and govt ID to verify that the people asking for refund right now is the same person on their KYC database, and things like that, which quite understandable to be asked by an AML compliant company, or any other company which took huge amount of money and was asked for a refund in matter of hours. Please, please prove me wrong by listing those NAZI check here.


Why not? If 6,000 USD is huge to you --and I never said it is a small money for me-- and you've done the 10 impossible task of NAZI-hercules, what's so difficult and harmful about giving a video of you plugging in your ledger to show that it is not turning on if that'll help you gain your money back? You could even hide your ID by not turning the camera to your face --duh--, and even if you did, they already know your face from KYC, so I think that made little to no difference.


When you said you ordered with a shaking hand... you mean literally and not methaporically because it was a huge tranaction? Your hands are literally shaking that you accidentally pressed order, add 4 to the amount of goods ordered, as well as accidentally clicked verify, entered amount of fund sent on your ledger UI, and other processes from the start to the end? Jesus. You sure you don't want to have those hands checked? From 1 to 10, how close is it to a parkinson? A seizure? May I suggest you to refrain from operating heavy machinery whenever you're nervous? At least until you've consulted your tremor to a specialist.

And  then your ledger broke and the company refused to refund to other address... tell me again, whose graveyard or which burial ground did you pissed on last night? You might want to return and burn some sages.


I suggested you to troubleshoot it, see if you can fix it, the proof so far shows that it'll be easier to try fixing it instead of requesting your refund to be procesed to other address. But now, exampens's suggestion could be an alternative. Giving an extra proof and doing the 11th impossible nazi-hercules task by recording your ledger to show that it is broken would probably do you a favor. You hadn't throw the ledger out of your window during your tantrum last night, had you?


Well uhh... technically, if they are AML compliant and your wallet is marked for suspicious activities --and your explanation around it certainly didn't help, if I may add-- it would be illegal to reroute your money to a different wallet. Pretty much beat the purpose of anti money laundering.

While we're at it and I am very certain you've think that I am a huge pain in the ass, I'd like to upgrade my status into an exploding hemorrhoid. A little fact checks:



So did you do the research before or after the order being placed? And were you wanting to cancel the order because of the red flags you found before-slash-after the order or was it because your hand is very shaky that you made a wrong purchase?


Edit: oops... it looks like the problem solved itself while I'm busy gathering data and typing my narrative. Glad that we meet the end of it.

First because in the ToS sales are final, refunds are from the strat out of the equation normally.
As for the other thing, everyone is buying, because there are only a few manufacturers and because the retailers are way more expensive and you risk far more money with a  scam, and most importantly, this is not a t-shirt that you order at 8 pm and at 8:05 you see a new pair of jeans and you think the t-shirt is no good anymore and you cancel the order. Most that deal with gear make their plans weeks in advance, they won't change their mind 3 hours after the purchase, this is the thing that triggered a lot of red flags in the OP story, even without the whole ledger thing.

And, look at that:

At this point, if as stated above Cannan refunds the payment to the address in question and we see the funds moving (which should be impossible with a broken device) then OP is clearly lying.

Hello guys. This is Cecilia from Canaan Official Online Shop.

Thank you for your continued attention and trust in Canaan Official Online Shop. After all night's investigation, we have confirmed that this OP (CANAANSCAMMER) is a double-sided scammer dealing with the Canaan Official Online Shop and actual customers.

The scammer first pretended to be our official team (@cocgao on the Telegram Platform) to get the customers' information and to let him believe he has been in contact with the actual official team. Then the scammer forged to be the customer who wanted a refund and contacted us to ask for a bitcoins transfer to his designated wallet.  

The actual customer has reported this matter to us; we have reached real customers and are processing the refund to his original wallet.

We always insist on returning the payment in the same way and not accepting the designated account because such scams happen from time to time. We do this to ensure the safety of customers' funds; please understand.

There are numerous scammers and tricks in this industry; we must be vigilant and careful. However, at the same time, we will also learn from this and provide customers with better and safer services in the future.

Right, now everything is clear, this OP is a real scammer, we have all proof now. We agreed to refund the risky BTC back to the original address, he was so angry because he is the scammer. Our real customer already contacted us and agreed to refund to the original wallet.

Chat history with our real customer https://imgur.com/a/AgbeaTh (100% original, just hide privacy parts)

Sounds like a strange story.

Very "convenient" that there is no seed & the ledger broke down hours after using it, what are the chances.
And also buying and then getting cold feet even though having doubts before even making the transaction. Strange.

What about just getting the miners, you wanted to buy the anyway, and then the story is over.
If they dont send the product you can call them scammers but not right now.

You behaved terribly even still they wanted to send you the refund , even though it's kind off against their TOS.

Obey by their refund rules or receive what you ordered, anything else is not worth talking about.

Pro tip.. whenever you are trying to get your money back or btc from a company or service ... Be SUPER Nice.. it will certainly help. (even the fuckin cable company lol)...

I'm sorry for the loss, I'm not a miner but that's a hefty chunk of btc, I hope u get it back. Just try being nicer, it usually works IMO...

Yes i provided brand new wallet for the refund for the reasons above. I just created Electrum and provided them wallet for the refund.
The so called "Nazi checks" are things that no company request from people as verification.
I still have hope to receive refund, and consider i was banned from telegram for reporting them here, i am cautious what i post here because things can go even worse...
If they not refund and scam me i will show everything.
Video of my ledger being damaged ? Is this some kind of new nazi check or just a joke ?
Why should i provide anything else than verifying myself as the sender of the payment and providing my KYC and things that no one else could know.
Please, don't rise your post count here with non-sense...
This community cannot help me and i know that because scams are not moderated. I am doing this report only people to aware and they to see that their scam is exposed.
They are the only people that can refund my money and based on their actions against me to silence me, and telling me "now how i can help you" after i reported them, making me way way more cautious so i can receive my refund and not being scammed...
So please, don't post non-sense trying to make my case worst than it is
This is my money after all, if i want, i will receive them with bird over China right?
I am responsible to provide valid proof that i am myself, i am the sender of the money and that's all.
How i am going to receive my OWN money is my own issue. Especially consider my hardware wallet is dead

did you really not understand what the problem is that you are asking for a refund to a completely new address?


holydarkness He asked you to say which NAZI checks they asked from you, I don't understand why you are holding back from saying that. if you are right, it will give a clearer picture of them.
several users have already told you to try to refrain from aggressive communication, you are really just raising your guard against all neutrals. that does not help you at all and makes it difficult to trust your words.
I believe that a short video, along with proof that it is you, which proves that your Ledger is faulty, would remove all doubts in your words.

For Canaan Shop, if you have already stopped all live communication with this user, shouldn't you inform him about your further actions? How much time do you need for the final decision, whether he passed all the required checks...

holydarkness, funny, why it is important what they said? Of course i will screenshot EVERYTHING that doesn't include my personal details
There you go:
https://prnt.sc/NO-2d2IOyEMN
https://prnt.sc/UmH5FbyLHMvs

They are mad because i open scam report in bitcointalk to expose them.
I consider as "NAZI checks" everything else than simple KYC, proof of payment.
I provided things which should not be required from a customer for EXTRA verification.
Some of them i passed to them just to make them even 101% sure.
I've sent them screenshot of the payment from my phone, my shipping details, my email (which they have of coruse, also sent them email from my email, the one i have register there, made order and everything) and extra stuff which they know exactly what i mean.
I didn't only provide EVERYTHING they need but extra from my side just to make their job easier.
I am not aware how rich you are, and i don't care, but if 6000$ is small amount for you, i would like to shake your hand dude, you are doing well.
For me, this money is not small amount, and as i mention before, i did the mistake to order with shaking hands and realize my mistake soon after.
Now you blame me for my broken ledger saying to fix it ? it would be more easy for me to request my refund to  wallet i have instant access to because i wanted my refund faster of course.
Why would i give those scammers even 10 seconds more, consider i can request my refund legally to different wallet? I have provided them that wallet AS THEY REQUESTED via email (the same email i order and i have registration on their website).
I did nothing else than grand all their requests:
Proof they requested to provide NEW WALLET FOR REFUND: https://prnt.sc/iTzXfuQoCrue
Proof they received my email: https://prnt.sc/ENfTVxEZIOVD

P.S: I did EXACTLY what they told me to, and based on Coco stupidity, because i reported them here in bitcointalk, he cannot help me...
He blocked me from Telegram, and from his Telegram to send him private message...
Proof i am banned on their telegram group: https://prnt.sc/q0Y2PuESEBLR
Their Telegram group is in shop.canaan.io down left corner

Ok, so, even before I read the rest of this thread and how you respond to people on this thread, and decided that you're an ass --hey, that was an honest impression I get from how you replied to them all-- I've frowned upon several things based on your opening post only, and get more and more curios as I progressed through the rest of the thread. A small tip before we begin and/or you continue with other member --me, especially-- leave your swearing and slurs elsewhere, my swear jar is currently full, I don't need your pennies overflowing it.

The first thing I stumbled upon and made this forehead creased is hpw you said that Coco ignored you both on the screenshot I cropped below as well as your other screenshot timestamped 09.04-09.08. But here in between 8.56 on your previous screenshot and on the next one --09.04-- we can see the top of Coco's chat buble, which indicate they responded to you. Do you mind showing us what their reply is? I really hope it was a simple case of you tryin to point out important chats instead of selectively screenshotting chats that works in your favor.



Second, I have to ask, really-really have to ask because I'm really curious and you can't seem to stress it enough: what are those 10 NAZI checks about? Was it the "simple" things a la KYC like your full name, DOB, govt ID., etc, or was it really-really hardcore NAZI stuff --that worth mentioning on each of your post-- like.... they asked you to verify yourself by a picture of you holding a paper signed with date and full name on your right hand while you standing with your left, a pumpkin on your bum, placed exactly at 90°, while your left and right hanging-in-the-air leg bent in a perfect shape of hakenkreuz, all the while three NAZI hippies performing blood ritual, naked and chanting in a morse code on the background? Wow, that's really serious.

Third, in regards to Coco, sadly I have to side with them at this point. In spite that it IS their job to help you, I don't think anyone would appreciate being yelled scammers on so many bubbles, alongside with passive-aggresive "do you understand me now?" --which somewhat borderline racist--, especially because I have allocated hours trying to help you and the real solution is out of my hand because I am bound by the company refund policy. So, if I was in Coco's position, you'll be lucky I was just ignoring your chat. Unless... of course, it'll probably be a different story if the chat buble from Coco that you decide to crop turns to show otherwise. I might as well muted you from the group chat because you go ballistic there too, so yeah, maybe that's not 100% their fault.

Bottomline: you dig your hole by throwing tantrum. I understand that losing 0.3btc is not a pleasant cup of coffee, and I'm really sympathetic for that, I understand that you're frustrated and scared and certainly the lack of sleep did't help, but you make matter worse for yourself by going aggresive on anyone poking their head into your snowball of mess --spoken while holding my swear jar at arm length because I don't want your horde of swears and NAZI attack filled my jar.

You can't blame Canaan or anyone else to be extremely suspicious. I mean, go ask yourself, how likely is it for someone to have their ledger broken right after they made a huge transaction and asked for a refund to different wallet, and the person who goes very-very careful that they choose hardware wallet against cheap online ones somewhat forgot to backup the seeds? If I have to be honest, their reaction to raise a defense mechanism is very nice.

Oh, --fourth-- speaking of ledger...


Uhh... maybe try to fix it? Or at least troubleshoot it? https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/4405497678481-Follow-device-repair-instructions. Try to submerge it in a nice cup of coffee, it seems both you and your ledger needed one --ok, the last sentence is not really necessary, LOL.


Fifth, and this is the last of my rambling, let me get this straight. According to your narrative so far posted here and there on this thread, you've do a research about Canaan before you decide to proceed buying from them, found so many red flags, but still decide to finalize the purchase, got cold feet, and then asked for a refund? Am I correct? Why? You have all of the red flags, and you still decide to continue, isn't that... well, theres no point on rubbing it further on you. But was it your fault? Hmm... *raised my shoulders*

Now, I've never heard of Canaan before, but I am somewhat sure if a customer from any marketplace platform or whatever online store there is, requested to cancel because they finally decide to go against their initial decision, especially if that request is several hours after the deal is finalized and the fund as well as the order is already processed, the patform or seller has every right to deny the request. Them agreeing on refunding you is already a good start.

Finally, Canaan Online Shop, is there anything you can do about it? Granted, you're suspicious of the request of refund because the address is not the same, refund policy, and all other things said above, but given the buyer has passed all of the verification you asked, can you do an exception this time and allow the refund to go to the designated wallet? This account of his is disposable, but you have all of his details already, I think banning him from any further transaction with you by using that info for any further purchases is a punishment enough --not that I think he'll ever want to buy anything from you anymore, anyway.

If you still want conduct a further DD on his details, maybe put the fund into an escrow to hold until you're satisfied with your DD. Meanwhile, he can get less stress and more compliant because he is now sure his fund is safe and secure somewhere else.

Bitcoin is not fungible. If you have Bitcoin with a "bad" history, you can't use that Bitcoin with a regulated entity. Same for regulated Bitcoin-exchanges. What is bad history is determined by chain analytics companies and includes hacks, scams, bad country, peer to peer exchange, coin joins, etc.

Many people desire frangibility and claim Bitcoin to be fungible. However government regulation enforces non frangibility of Bitcoin by enforcing discrimination depending on the transaction history.

Thank you so much!! <3 So far, i tested everything existing over internet and the ledger is dead...
I still can't believe what are the odds to be scammed from "Legit" company and my hardware wallet to die at same time.
The worst days i had this year....

Am I correct in assuming that the above screenshot was taken from the Ledger Live mobile app and you own a Nano X wallet? If the answer to that is "YES", then it probably has something to do with its awful/unreliable battery and you can find the solutions in the following thread: Ledger Nano X Battery Pandemic <sup>[make sure to read all of the comments]
- I hope it helps with speeding up the refund process.</sup>

Bad excuse? Yeah sadly hardware dies without notification. It is not my fault, and even if it was, in the end its my money right?
Why i insist on a refund to new address ? Because i don't trust Canaan anymore and i want my money back ? Consider my ledger is dead, what other options i have than requesting my refund to wallet i have access to?
And why you are missing the part that i passed KYC, and provided 10 other NAZI checks to verify myself?
I provided things that no one else than me can provide and 1000% proof that i am myself.
I respect their ToS, but at this situation, there should be solution to take my money back right? It is not like i have other options?
I had few red flags before i order and i did it with shaking hands. After little bit of time, i realized my mistake and before contacting Canaan i tried everything to run my Ledge without success... Tell me what else i can do ? And how come you blaming me for asking for my own money? What's my fault here? That i am not hardware specialist to fix my ledger or not keeping my seed? Jeez..
I have access to my email address and i have send them many emails, and they confirmed they have my email... What are you talking about?
They even requested me to send the new refund wallet via original email i have registration on their website, i did it.
I provided every single request they ask even WAY WAY more as i already said.
I can provide screenshots hiding the sensitive information that i've done everything to verify myself.
Going thru KYC, Sending email confirmation with new refund wallet via my original email, sending TX of the transaction, sending screenshot of the payment page while paying to them, my full infos including shipping address and everything.
Excuse me but they have ALL the information from me to verify me.
This is just poor customer service from their side for not understanding that there is situations that doesn't depends on the customer such as faulty hardware wallet.

*I was so mad that i miss type saying i don't have access to the original email, while i was trying to say i don't have access to the original wallet.
Above you can see confirmation from them for receiving email from my original email providing new refund wallet.

The fact that they blocked me in private messages, banned me from the group saying many things without words...

a few things are suspicious to me from the OP.
A few hours after he sent the transaction, he requested a refund but to a new address. First, because his Ledger is broken?? A dead hardware wallet in just a few hours sounds like a bad excuse to me.
only 15 minutes later, he claims again that he does not have access to the email address and therefore no longer manages that bitcoin address.
so what is the real reason why he insists on a refund to a new address?



I don't know anything about Canaan Online Shop, but they are right that they did not immediately return the money to the new address. certainly not after the OP's way of communication.

Tell me exactly, how i can grand their conditions consider i don't have access to the wallet because the ledger is dead and i don't have the seed?
And tell me exactly, why should i go thru their whistle consider i go not only thry KYC but 10 different other NAZI checks to confirm myself. Including screenshot of the payment from my phone...
And interesting, what do you think, if you were in my situation what would you do if you lost access to the original wallet you send money from? Leave them 6000$ for free just because you lost the seed and your hardware wallet is dead? Cmon

Update: Now i am banned from the official Canaan group
https://prnt.sc/PlPfJXIFhhhh

Keep telling me that they are not scamming me....

Well that sucks, even if Bitmain is operating like that and I would never personally buy from such company. Why not mentioning that in TOS, that money can be refunded only to the address from where bitcoin is sent?


Yeah of course that they can't refund him immediately (not even Amazon would do that and we all know how good their customer support is) and OP really misbehaved (even his story of having Leger dying just few hours after sending money seems kinda far fetched but I guess it can happen) but imho there should be some procedure to get a refund to a different address.

I am not aware in what exact language to explain that i've go thru all the nazi checks even more than usual to verify i am myself.
That's not the case.
If my ledger didn't die or if i had the seed, i won't had any issues to accept my refund back to the wallet i use to send the btc.
Consider that's not the case, and i don't have access to that anymore, tell me exactly what's my options here consider i can't take my refund there?
To leave them with 6000$ just because i want my refund in wallet i have access? Don't joke..
I provided them with private information about myself that no one else can. It is pretty obvious they are playing with their TOS or delaying me for some reason.
But the most sad thing would be if they really refund my money to wallet that no one have access to.
Then it will be sad and funny together

https://shop.bitmain.com/product/detail?pid=00020221030110209340BlAGIXVS065E


They all do post this but it's mostly just on the surface,  just as people do manage to cancel orders and get refunds from Bitmain, as you can see they agreed to send back the funds to the original wallet, so they agree on a refund but with their conditions.

It's just stupid at this point of course they could make an exception especially since OP is having a meltdown and is probably one inch away from a heart attack but at the same time, you just can't just send funds to a different wallet that easily, especially since the buyer changed his mind a few hours after the order. What if he used somebody else account and coins to pay?

Since his BTC is reminded as risky by the KYC third party, so we cannot accept it and we agreed to refund it to the original BTC address. It really takes time to get approval in our system. He just warned us to refund immediately and refund to another new address...