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Topic: Car and Driver licensing - page 12. (Read 1627 times)

legendary
Activity: 4410
Merit: 4766
October 31, 2019, 02:06:17 PM
#26
You are starting to get the idea. If people demanded all the rights they have, Government would be put back into the place it is supposed to be, rather than remaining some of the biggest money-making rackets around. And the people would be free from government's stupid constraints.

i went though the whole freeman rabbit hole like 7 years ago. but i actually went into the details and researched beyond the hype, i went through it all and found the flaws.

if people actually demanded their rights and stopped accepting the services of the governments. guess what
first. you end up walking to work. nxt you realise you dont have time/ability to dispose of the trash piling up on your back lawn because local governments stopped servicing you. next you learn to barter because the government/bank money becomes obsolete. then your grand children when they grow up revolutionals your dvolved state into forming a cartel of 'public' service offerings. and thus they end up re-establishing a governemtn, but under a different brand

you do not have the right to travel in a vehicle unhindered. you do not have the right to have garbage disposed of or even water supplid to your house for fre via pipes.

but if you want to go off grid and walk to the nearest river/stream to collet buckets of water and walk to work. fair play. but atleast know what your rights actually are.
your rights to travel end at your little toe not at the front bumper of a vehicle

heres some small little tip-bits
 'civil' right is not a 'human' right.
once you realise the difference you start to learn how not being a civilian/citizen changes how you should expect life to be
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
October 31, 2019, 01:58:06 PM
#25
The funds will go into the pockets of the people, if government pays people to get licenses.

i think you forget that the funds put into government are from the people too
meaning if you want £20 in your bank for updating a licence. it will cost the tax payer(people) £40
£20 to you and £20 for the labour and admin to produce the documents

think about it its only ~3 hours of labour. but to open the post type in your details. validate your driving test certificate is real. produce document, print the plastic card, double check all details are correct and post it back is not a simple 2 second task


and please please please stop watching them freemason stuff and just believing it on face value.. atleast do some research
especially if you start believing the tripe about secret 'credit' accounts in peoples 'N'ames.. just dont even bother to believe that tripe. its all been busted and laughed at years ago

You are starting to get the idea. If people demanded all the rights they have, Government would be put back into the place it is supposed to be, rather than remaining some of the biggest money-making rackets around. And the people would be free from government's stupid constraints.

Cool
legendary
Activity: 4410
Merit: 4766
October 31, 2019, 01:55:36 PM
#24
In other words, since we had the right to travel without licensing, by our private conveyance, before even the Constitution was set in place, if government forces us to get licensing against their own, basic, foundational law, they should at least pay us to get the licensing.

you have the right to walk, dance, talk, wiggle your ass.. all the natural biological abilities
but to use something that is not your biology that can be considered dangerous and able to be used maliciously is not a free right

sorry but a lambo was not around in the days of the constitution.. nowhere does it say you have the right to drive a lambo
if you want to travel. fine. use your feet
legendary
Activity: 4410
Merit: 4766
October 31, 2019, 01:51:54 PM
#23
The funds will go into the pockets of the people, if government pays people to get licenses.

i think you forget that the funds put into government are from the people too
meaning if you want £20 in your bank for updating a licence. it will cost the tax payer(people) £40
£20 to you and £20 for the labour and admin to produce the documents

think about it its only ~3 hours of labour. but to open the post type in your details. validate your driving test certificate is real. produce document, print the plastic card, double check all details are correct and post it back is not a simple 2 second task

so if you want to receive £20 be prepared to have paid more than £20 for that privelige

and please please please stop watching them freemason stuff and just believing it on face value.. atleast do some research
especially if you start believing the tripe about secret 'credit' accounts in peoples 'N'ames.. just dont even bother to believe that tripe. its all been busted and laughed at years ago
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
October 31, 2019, 01:49:35 PM
#22
Consider that the right to travel is a freedom that is supplied by government. Government has all kinds of ways to support payment of roads without licensing... such as toll roads.

Those who can't abide by these (rather generous, IMO) restrictions are free to travel by less dangerous methods.

to BD
the right to travel is not a freedom supplied by government. its a biological ability supplied by your feet.

to Fp
exactly people can walk to places, swim. under their own muscle power of their limbs
BaDecker has definetly ben watching too much of them 'freeman' videos.. im guessing it will take him a couple years to escape that loop as he seems to be stuck in 2014 trends

I completely agree. The 9th Amendment (really the 9th Article to the Bill of Rights) is the most important piece of law legislation during and since the time of the Constitution formation and adoption. The 9th Amendment:
Amendment IX

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Cornell also says this about it:
The Ninth Amendment was James Madison’s attempt to ensure that the Bill of Rights was not seen as granting to the people of the United States only the specific rights it addressed. In recent years, some have interpreted it as affirming the existence of such “unenumerated” rights outside those expressly protected by the Bill of Rights.

In other words, since we had the right to travel without licensing, by our private conveyance, before even the Constitution was set in place, if government forces us to get licensing against their own, basic, foundational law, they should at least pay us to get the licensing.

Cool
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
October 31, 2019, 01:39:26 PM
#21
So, if you get your licenses like they order you to, aren't they acting like your boss, when they order you to do something? If you follow their orders, shouldn't you get paid by them for doing so?
These "bosses" are those people that are implementing rules and regulations in the road and those rules should be followed by us citizens. That point of yours is I think sorry to say but, doesn't make any sense. Since, it's your need/want to drive outside and outside is government's property. So if it's your needs/wants, then why should the government needs to pay you for doing what you want?

For the sake of argument, let's say that would be the case. Let's say the government will pay for people that got their car licensed and themselves licensed. Where do you think the funds will go? The whole fund for the year of the country will deplete more and more since many people got licensed and many more will follow.

The funds will go into the pockets of the people, if government pays people to get licenses.

Government doesn't have to make their rules and laws for licensing and driving the way they do. They make all their rules for government enrichment.

If government really made it according to their rules and laws, they would do it according to my post at https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.52940248, and the website in it - http://www.apfn.org/apfn/travel.htm. As it is, LEOs aren't following their own laws.

I'm not making this up. It isn't my opinion, or at least not alone. Essentially government says the same thing that I do.

Cool
legendary
Activity: 4410
Merit: 4766
October 31, 2019, 01:34:40 PM
#20
Consider that the right to travel is a freedom that is supplied by government. Government has all kinds of ways to support payment of roads without licensing... such as toll roads.

Those who can't abide by these (rather generous, IMO) restrictions are free to travel by less dangerous methods.

to BD
the right to travel is not a freedom supplied by government. its a biological ability supplied by your feet.

to Fp
exactly people can walk to places, swim. under their own muscle power of their limbs
BaDecker has definetly ben watching too much of them 'freeman' videos.. im guessing it will take him a couple years to escape that loop as he seems to be stuck in 2014 trends
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
October 31, 2019, 01:33:01 PM
#19
Consider that the right to travel is a freedom that is supplied by government. Government has all kinds of ways to support payment of roads without licensing... such as toll roads.
Licensing isn't just about money; it's also about public safety. A two tonne car travelling at 110 km/h (70 mph) has about 1 megajoule (750,000 foot pounds) of kinetic energy, equivalent to 250 grams (8 ounces) of TNT, which, as it happens, is roughly the yield of an M67 hand grenade. As terrorists are (surprising recently) starting to figure out, a car makes a very effective guided missile that can (either accidentally or maliciously) destroy another car completely, kill or maim a whole crowd of pedestrians, or partially demolish a small building. Even the most ardent gun nuts will concede that some licensing restrictions are necessary on the use of such weapons in public.

Those who can't abide by these (rather generous, IMO) restrictions are free to travel by less dangerous methods.

All you are suggesting is that government doesn't have to obey their own laws and court cases as listed in my post you quoted.

Watch this.
- Government places signs all over the place that tell people the limits of safety. Some of these are speed limit warning signs.
- At the same time, government never stops anyone who drives any speed he wants, except to advise him that he is driving dangerously.
- If there is an accident, the guilty party pays for others who have been injured/killed... if he lives, otherwise it is his insurance.
- They throw the whole book at the guilty person, to the point of execution, except if he was driving within the speed limit warning signs.

If these things were done, especially the execution thing, people would drive safely and carefully. People would be punished for the harm and damage they did. We would get rid of all kinds of stupid fines that enrich government people and LEO inappropriately. And with the threat of execution, people would drive safely. But if they didn't, they aren't going to do so now. They won't even obey not driving on a suspended license.

Let's clean things up, and allow people to be free. No more victimless crimes. No more pussyfooting around. Freedom, and real payment for negligence.

BUT...

That wasn't the point of the OP. The point was that government should pay us for forcing us into licensing ourselves and our vehicles.

Cool
sr. member
Activity: 840
Merit: 268
October 31, 2019, 01:31:38 PM
#18
So, if you get your licenses like they order you to, aren't they acting like your boss, when they order you to do something? If you follow their orders, shouldn't you get paid by them for doing so?
These "bosses" are those people that are implementing rules and regulations in the road and those rules should be followed by us citizens. That point of yours is I think sorry to say but, doesn't make any sense. Since, it's your need/want to drive outside and outside is government's property. So if it's your needs/wants, then why should the government needs to pay you for doing what you want?

For the sake of argument, let's say that would be the case. Let's say the government will pay for people that got their car licensed and themselves licensed. Where do you think the funds will go? The whole fund for the year of the country will deplete more and more since many people got licensed and many more will follow.
legendary
Activity: 4536
Merit: 3188
Vile Vixen and Miss Bitcointalk 2021-2023
October 31, 2019, 01:18:28 PM
#17
Consider that the right to travel is a freedom that is supplied by government. Government has all kinds of ways to support payment of roads without licensing... such as toll roads.
Licensing isn't just about money; it's also about public safety. A two tonne car travelling at 110 km/h (70 mph) has about 1 megajoule (750,000 foot pounds) of kinetic energy, equivalent to 250 grams (half a pound) of TNT, which, as it happens, is roughly the yield of an M67 hand grenade. As terrorists are (surprising recently) starting to figure out, a car makes a very effective guided missile that can (either accidentally or maliciously) destroy another car completely, kill or maim a whole crowd of pedestrians, or partially demolish a small building. Even the most ardent gun nuts will concede that some licensing restrictions are necessary on the use of such weapons in public.

Those who can't abide by these (rather generous, IMO) restrictions are free to travel by less dangerous methods.
legendary
Activity: 4410
Merit: 4766
October 31, 2019, 01:10:19 PM
#16
Is not your car your property? And are you not a free man/woman in a free country? I think Government should pay us to get licensed and to have our vehicle licensed.

What do you think?

Cool

oh no badecker... i think you been watching them 'freeman of the land'.. 'sovereign' youtube videos from like 5 years ago.

let me catch you back up just a little bit..
sorry but there is alot of myths that got busted as to the 'freeman of the land'/sovereign crap

let m guess you have a silly belief that when we are born that a secret bank account is created in peoples 'Names' and all the bullony about the capitalisation of the name..
sorry that just was silly stuff that had alot of nonsense involved. purely to get a group of no-bodys to look like they are lawful scholars to then charge consultation and conference/meetup fee's
hero member
Activity: 1330
Merit: 569
October 31, 2019, 12:28:01 PM
#15
You don't need a licence to own a car, nor to drive one on private property, such as a racetrack. You only need a licence if you want to drive your car on public roads, which (by the definition of "public") are the property of the government, so the government is allowed to place restrictions on who is allowed to drive there.

This your answer is just the perfect one. Since he is arguing that he should be paid for getting a license, then he should just avoid it all together because I have not seen how someone who is on wheel chair would need a licence. Most times people always think the only motive of government is to raise money via any means necessary forgetting that sometimes its actually a way to protect you and also protect other members of the society. Imagine everyone getting paid for a license then it means we all would have one even though we all cannot afford a car and say we all afford a car, then we all drive at once which overstretched the facilities then we get taxed higher to further complain about that not considering other effect to the atmosphere that exhaust pipes would caused.
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
October 31, 2019, 11:42:53 AM
#14
You don't need a licence to own a car, nor to drive one on private property, such as a racetrack. You only need a licence if you want to drive your car on public roads, which (by the definition of "public") are the property of the government, so the government is allowed to place restrictions on who is allowed to drive there.

bUt nOt iF Im a sOvIeRiGeN CiTiZiEn bRo i dOnT HaVe tO FoLlOw uR LaWs

/s (if needed)

But in all seriousness. This is what it comes down to. You're able to own a car and drive it on your private land if ya want to -- but thats kinda useless if you want to use it for what everyone else in America wants a car for, transportation.

Suck it up and pay the freight.


Is not your car your property? And are you not a free man/woman in a free country? I think Government should pay us to get licensed and to have our vehicle licensed.

What do you think?

Cool

I think if you use something that is provided by the government, then you should help to pay for it through taxes.
If you want to drive a car on roads and through traffic management systems that are run and maintained by the government, then you should pay to do so. Licence fees and vehicle taxes help to pay for what the government provides.



Consider that the right to travel is a freedom that is supplied by government. Government has all kinds of ways to support payment of roads without licensing... such as toll roads. In addition, the rights of way that are "enhanced" by government making roads, are really an impediment to people who wished that the roads were not in their way, so they could travel on the rights of way.

However, Former LEO (Law Enforcement Officer), Jack McLamb, shows us that the right to travel is a basic legal right, even though most LEOs consider doing it without licensing is a crime. Right to Travel:
For years professionals within the criminal justice system have acted on the belief that traveling by motor vehicle was a privilege that was given to a citizen only after approval by their state government in the form of a permit or license to drive. In other words, the individual must be granted the privilege before his use of the state highways was considered legal. Legislators, police officers, and court officials are becoming aware that there are court decisions that disprove the belief that driving is a privilege and therefore requires government approval in the form of a license. Presented here are some of these cases:

    CASE #1: "The use of the highway for the purpose of travel and transportation is not a mere privilege, but a common fundamental right of which the public and individuals cannot rightfully be deprived." Chicago Motor Coach v. Chicago, 169 NE 221.

    CASE #2: "The right of the citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, either by carriage or by automobile, is not a mere privilege which a city may prohibit or permit at will, but a common law right which he has under the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Thompson v. Smith, 154 SE 579.

It could not be stated more directly or conclusively that citizens of the states have a common law right to travel, without approval or restriction (license), and that this right is protected under the U.S Constitution.

    CASE #3: "The right to travel is a part of the liberty of which the citizen cannot be deprived without due process of law under the Fifth Amendment." Kent v. Dulles, 357 US 116, 125.

    CASE #4: "The right to travel is a well-established common right that does not owe its existence to the federal government. It is recognized by the courts as a natural right." Schactman v. Dulles 96 App DC 287, 225 F2d 938, at 941.

As hard as it is for those of us in law enforcement to believe, there is no room for speculation in these court decisions. American citizens do indeed have the inalienable right to use the roadways unrestricted in any manner as long as they are not damaging or violating property or rights of others. Government -- in requiring the people to obtain drivers licenses, and accepting vehicle inspections and DUI/DWI roadblocks without question -- is restricting, and therefore violating, the people's common law right to travel.

The problem is that people don't generally know how to fight this in court when a LEO accuses them of a crime like this.

But the question in the OP essentially is, shouldn't government be forced to pay people who they force to get licensing? I mean, you can't legally force someone to do work on your property without paying him. So, since the public is in trust to government, shouldn't the government be forced to pay when they force you to get their licensing, especially when it is a right for you to do without their licensing?

Cool


EDIT: The 5th Amendment:
Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Notice that the bolded part says that there needs to be due process of law, not due process of code or statute. By forcing payment for licensing, the property of the vehicle owner is essentially being forced into public use by license payment. To be fair and legal, the license payment should be to the vehicle owner if nothing else, as reimbursement for whatever payment he had to make to government.
legendary
Activity: 2478
Merit: 1360
Don't let others control your BTC -> self custody
October 31, 2019, 11:02:58 AM
#13
As you mentioned the roads were the properties of the government, but the roads were laid on the public money.

Not all the roads. Some are dirt roads not managed by anyone, yet they are usually on the land owned by the government. So this means that if you go outside your home, you land on the property owned by the government, because there's no land that is not owned by anyone. The government made sure to sign every piece of land that nobody has laid claim to to itself. Once you had to maintain a piece of land to call it your own and demand people to ask before crossing it. The government is as always above the law, because it decide what the law is. It doesn't put signs or fences on the land it owns, it doesn't maintain it, but it can push you around if you step on it.


To the increased number of vehicles on the road we can't allow everyone without proper learning to drive the car. This is why everyone who wants to drive a car needs to get licensed taking a driving test. This is the reason why we need license and not just because of governments road we need to take license.

We can't allow? We as the majority? We as the bigger group that is going to dictate the smaller and weaker group what to do?
Maybe you're referring to the royal we? I'm not with you on this.

Wanna know what this "we can't allow" reminds me of?
We can't allow some people to be too rich, we have to redistribute! We can't allow these people to do what they want, they have to ask us first! We can't allow these people to be lazy we have to make them work for the good of the society. Do you see where this is going?
hero member
Activity: 2618
Merit: 548
DGbet.fun - Crypto Sportsbook
October 31, 2019, 08:59:55 AM
#12
You don't need a licence to own a car, nor to drive one on private property, such as a racetrack. You only need a licence if you want to drive your car on public roads, which (by the definition of "public") are the property of the government, so the government is allowed to place restrictions on who is allowed to drive there.
As you mentioned the roads were the properties of the government, but the roads were laid on the public money. To the increased number of vehicles on the road we can't allow everyone without proper learning to drive the car. This is why everyone who wants to drive a car needs to get licensed taking a driving test. This is the reason why we need license and not just because of governments road we need to take license.
legendary
Activity: 3094
Merit: 1069
DGbet.fun - Crypto Sportsbook
October 31, 2019, 07:37:22 AM
#11
When people lived in group, their interest conflicted. The acts of ones were affecting others. That's why they self created rules and ruler to govern over themselves.
We've created our government so that they'd restrict personal freedoms in the favor of communal comfort. Communal comforts are to be decided by the whole community through democracy. If you don't like what your government is doing, change them.
hero member
Activity: 2086
Merit: 501
★Bitvest.io★ Play Plinko or Invest!
October 31, 2019, 07:35:53 AM
#10
You don't need a licence to own a car, nor to drive one on private property, such as a racetrack. You only need a licence if you want to drive your car on public roads, which (by the definition of "public") are the property of the government, so the government is allowed to place restrictions on who is allowed to drive there.

It is show that you passed your examination that you are ready to drive a car.  A license is a privilege but not a right.  License can also avoid accident because you passed your exam then of course you can drive a vehicle in a safe way.
legendary
Activity: 3430
Merit: 3080
October 31, 2019, 05:15:21 AM
#9
Then you are thinking selfishly if you are thinking about receiving payment just to use your own property. Like other taxes, it is imposed by the government to generate money for a public purpose. It's for everyone. The tax you pay goes into many places.
  • Salary of government workers
  • Garbage collection
  • Police
  • Firefighters
  • Other government services

not really

these days, almost all of the money goes to servicing old government debts multiple decades in the past, so in a way you are paying for these things: from the 1930's, 1940's. 1950's, 1960's....


TBH, I don't like paying taxes as much as I would want to but it's required and it's for a better cause, if there are corrupt people collecting those fees, it's not on my conscience. I just know I'm doing the right thing and it's for the betterment of everyone in the country.

I disagree

If for instance, you live in the US and pay US federal taxes, some of your tax dollars are being used to pay for the Manhattan Project (assuming the funding is still outstanding, a distinct possibility), or certainly for the Vietnam War.

If I paid for the Vietnam War, I would find it weighing on my conscience. I guess everyone's conscience is different Undecided
sr. member
Activity: 1078
Merit: 354
October 31, 2019, 01:42:45 AM
#8
Is not your car your property? And are you not a free man/woman in a free country? I think Government should pay us to get licensed and to have our vehicle licensed.

What do you think?

Cool

I think if you use something that is provided by the government, then you should help to pay for it through taxes.
If you want to drive a car on roads and through traffic management systems that are run and maintained by the government, then you should pay to do so. Licence fees and vehicle taxes help to pay for what the government provides.
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1285
Flying Hellfish is a Commie
October 30, 2019, 08:39:54 PM
#7
You don't need a licence to own a car, nor to drive one on private property, such as a racetrack. You only need a licence if you want to drive your car on public roads, which (by the definition of "public") are the property of the government, so the government is allowed to place restrictions on who is allowed to drive there.

bUt nOt iF Im a sOvIeRiGeN CiTiZiEn bRo i dOnT HaVe tO FoLlOw uR LaWs

/s (if needed)

But in all seriousness. This is what it comes down to. You're able to own a car and drive it on your private land if ya want to -- but thats kinda useless if you want to use it for what everyone else in America wants a car for, transportation.

Suck it up and pay the freight.
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