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Topic: Christian BS - page 6. (Read 12699 times)

hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
sucker got hacked and screwed --Toad
November 11, 2014, 02:54:40 AM
If you ask me, an incremental series of advances culminating in DNA-life seems quite extraordinary from the materialist perspective.

Let's weigh up the two side of the argument then:

1 - Any explanation that utilises temperatures, pressures and forces that are part of our Universe

2 - An explanation that invokes the paranormal and is centred around an omnipotent super-being who functions outside the laws of nature


Hmmmm, tough one. Do we consider your inability to comprehend the rational explanation as justification for you to cling on to your conditioned-response that binds your thoughts within a cage designed to fear rational explanation, or do we just roll our eyes and sigh about the epic lengths theists will go to in order to maintain their intellectually dishonest magic-man belief?


So you believe in abiogenesis?
legendary
Activity: 2240
Merit: 1254
Thread-puller extraordinaire
November 11, 2014, 02:50:25 AM
If you ask me, an incremental series of advances culminating in DNA-life seems quite extraordinary from the materialist perspective.

Let's weigh up the two side of the argument then:

1 - Any explanation that utilises temperatures, pressures and forces that are part of our Universe

2 - An explanation that invokes the paranormal and is centred around an omnipotent super-being who functions outside the laws of nature


Hmmmm, tough one. Do we consider your inability to comprehend the rational explanation as justification for you to cling on to your conditioned-response that binds your thoughts within a cage designed to fear rational explanation, or do we just roll our eyes and sigh about the epic lengths theists will go to in order to maintain their intellectually dishonest magic-man belief?

Vod
legendary
Activity: 3668
Merit: 3010
Licking my boob since 1970
November 10, 2014, 10:47:36 PM
God designed us well. He designed us with "God qualities." When we decided to follow the advice of the devil and destroy ourselves, our God-qualities allowed us to do it, at the same time they didn't allow us to do it.

The FSM (what you call "God") didn't actually design us.   He was present as we evolved but he gives free will to all living creatures.  He didn't force a fish to walk on land, for example - he waited until the fish wanted to.

 Smiley
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
November 10, 2014, 08:06:24 PM
If God designed us, why did he do such a shitty job? There are all sorts of ways to improve our bodies and all sorts of parts that are far inferior to our human technology.

God designed us well. He designed us with "God qualities." When we decided to follow the advice of the devil and destroy ourselves, our God-qualities allowed us to do it, at the same time they didn't allow us to do it.

Smiley
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
November 10, 2014, 04:39:02 PM
the ONLY correct answer is:

Any answer that satisfies the Origin of Life Prize.

I fixed that for you.
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1020
November 10, 2014, 04:26:34 PM
Regardless of whether God exists, I think it's at least reasonably easy to demonstrate the Universe is predicated upon the abstract, i.e. upon mentality.  For, to even assert the Universe, or any event contained therein, exists requires a metric to measure, i.e. identity, its existence.  Observation alone invokes such a metric.

No mind --> no Universe.  Empiricists tend to struggle with this concept, and this is evidenced by their tendency to describe the Universe as if all observers could be removed from it.  Yet, they fail to realize that a Universe without observers can't be a Universe at all, for there is no metric by which the Universe can be stated to exist.

"But...but...there would still be something!"   Actually, no, you don't have the authority to say anything about such a Universe at all.
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1147
The revolution will be monetized!
November 10, 2014, 02:11:19 PM
If God designed us, why did he do such a shitty job? There are all sorts of ways to improve our bodies and all sorts of parts that are far inferior to our human technology.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
November 10, 2014, 02:02:01 PM
^^^ Since we currently don't have the science and technology to understand this process, or even know if that was the correct process, the ONLY correct answer is:

6,000 years ago, some bearded dude got bored, created a garden, then created another dude, who also got bored, so the original dude took out that second dude's rib and made a dudette for him to play with. That is obviously a much better explanation with much more evidence, and thus we shouldn't even bother trying to figure any other reasons out. God did it should be good enough, and no more scientific progress is necessary.

Personally, I prefer the "We don't know" answer to the "voices in my head told me some guy did it, and I'm going to believe them with no evidence, or will start to selectively search for the evidence that proves I'm not crazy."
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
November 10, 2014, 02:39:49 AM
You have just asserted something you have no business asserting because it is based solely on your lack of intelligence/education.

Add, then, the untold actions and interactions of temperatures and pressures and forces and elements that combine over this time to create the building blocks of biological life.

It didn't need to go from zero-to-superhero, it need only be an incremental series of advances. Which is exactly what is observed and understood about the process.

Sir, since you apparently have enough intelligence to understand the incremental advances leading up to DNA-based life, then surely you are able to point out (and explain) the incremental steps which have been observed between the following:

1) getting only homochiral monomers,
2) only peptide bonds (half the bonds that normally form between amino acids),
3) only biologically usable amino acids (20 out of well over 80 that were probably common in a prebiotic environment),
4) getting activated monomers that can polymerize,
5) getting a family member of each protein catalyst out of sequence space,
6) getting all needed components produced and assembled at the same place and in the correct reaction order through time, etc.

Then your understandings should also account for the observation that the overall prevalence of polyamino acid sequences performing a specific function by any domain-sized fold is only one in 10^77.

I am sure that once you clarify the observations and understandings which bring life to this stage of the "zero to superhero" process, then you will be well on your way to claiming the $1,000,000 Origin of Life Prize.

As you can see, the origin of life is not an easy question, but at least you can begin to ask the right questions and educate yourself about the state of the understanding in this field; I highly recommend the Origin of Life Prize website.

If you ask me, an incremental series of advances culminating in DNA-life seems quite extraordinary from the materialist perspective.
legendary
Activity: 2240
Merit: 1254
Thread-puller extraordinaire
November 10, 2014, 02:26:09 AM
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" - Carl Sagan.

I think the claim towards the existence of an all-powerful super-being qualifies as extraordinary.

What about human DNA?

YES!

. . .the only way it could have come into existence is if it had been designed and built.
So just because you can't wrap your head around it . . .ALIENS!!!!1!!!!, erm I mean, GOD!!!!1!!!!!!!

You have just asserted something you have no business asserting because it is based solely on your lack of intelligence/education

The ONLY way? Or just A way, if you were to ignore all the other, rational and reasonable, cause-and-effect explanations that already exist to describe the things you want to invoke a deity for.

If nature put this life together by accident, it would have taken untold numbers of times the projected age of the universe to accomplish it.

Again, you've just asserted something as though it were a fact, it is not, it is simply a bold assertion based on your assumption that what you are saying sounds right to you so it must be correct.

The Universe is Billions of years old, a timeframe you are struggling to comprehend. Add, then, the untold actions and interactions of temperatures and pressures and forces and elements that combine over this time to create the building blocks of biological life.

It didn't need to go from zero-to-superhero, it need only be an incremental series of advances. Which is exactly what is observed and understood about the process.

I bet you're invoking the "Junkyard tornado" fallacy where it is claimed the human eyeball existing is like a tornado ripping through a junkyard and 'accidentally' assembling a fully-functional Boeing 747. Because, after all, an eye either works as a fully complete and complex thing, or it doesn't work at all.

Except you are absolutely ignoring the fact that an eye isn't formed like that through evolution. It is all incremental and only those incremental changes that did not hinder the ability of a creature to survive long enough to procreate, or those that actually ended up raising the chances of a creature surviving long enough to procreate, would be passed down and form part of the blueprint for the offspring, whereby further mutation would result in additional tiny changes and so on.

It's about mutation, not purposeful design, error.

Your inability to comprehend relatively straightforward concepts and to actively seek out others who will also refuse to comprehend these things in order to replace reasonable explanation with myth and 'woo', because it suits you, does not change the truth that the most rational and reasonable explanations are perfectly capable of describing the process.



legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
November 09, 2014, 05:22:05 PM
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" - Carl Sagan.

I think the claim towards the existence of an all-powerful super-being qualifies as extraordinary.

What about human DNA?

YES!

The video, "Molecular Machinery of Life" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ4N0iSeR8U -  is only one of many videos that visually depict the operations that go on inside of cells. The whole operation of life is so "machinery" oriented, and it is so extremely complex, that the only way it could have come into existence is if it had been designed and built.

Google or Youtube search "video of cellular machinery," or any other words along these lines.

If nature put this life together by accident, it would have taken untold numbers of times the projected age of the universe to accomplish it.

Smiley
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 504
November 09, 2014, 04:39:54 PM
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" - Carl Sagan.

I think the claim towards the existence of an all-powerful super-being qualifies as extraordinary.

What about human DNA?
legendary
Activity: 2240
Merit: 1254
Thread-puller extraordinaire
November 09, 2014, 05:54:27 AM
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" - Carl Sagan.

I think the claim towards the existence of an all-powerful super-being qualifies as extraordinary.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
November 09, 2014, 03:40:00 AM
Atheists believe their master, Science.
Christians believe their master, God.

That's not what the difference is. Atheists only believe in evidence and reason, and simply don't believe in things that don't have evidence, instead choosing to be skeptical.
Christians are skeptical about one less thing then atheists are, believing in a rather major concept without any reason or evidence behind it, while still being skeptical of the hundreds of other beliefs.

So, it's not about what each group believes in, it's about the level of skepticism each group has.

Also, BADecker doesn't have a clue about what science is or how it is done. Which is unsurprising considering his own beliefs.

P.S. I'm really loving and enjoying my own removed-from-god life, where I'm denying him and causing my own destruction. Nice house, great job, loving family, awesom friends, no stresses, fights, or drama, and a lot of fun, travel, adventure, and sense of accomplishment. Godless life is great Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1019
November 03, 2014, 12:00:36 PM
The seeding/original intention of an institution, I think, has a pervading effect upon its future. Just an opinion though. The point is not to be ruled by man, but by God, and churches (rather, church leaders) can blur the lines between the two in a way that we might fall prey be to like a god personified, which to me is different than us personifying God through our beings.

"As above, so below" concept, etc.

The Old Testament tells us that God doesn't change. The New Testament tells us that Jesus doesn't change, and that He is God along with His Father. The New Testament also tells us that we are found in Jesus, and He in God. So, when you put this together, we have been around forever, in Jesus. This is part of the reason that God allowed the world to exist after sin had been found in it. God is giving us the chance to remain in Jesus. Many folks have used their God-power to remove themselves from God, through their denial of Him, thereby causing their own destruction.

God is simplicity, yet God is complexity at the same time. Explaining how and why the above fits together won't be easy. Perhaps it isn't entirely possible for us in our human condition to explain.

Smiley

I can dig that Smiley

But I still hold reservations. Yes we are derivatives of God/Jesus and that might've been Jesus's, et al.'s mission here for us to understand that, and though anyone can serve as the One for us at any point, my reservation is because each man is inherently at at different personal points on the Way, as such, you can never reliably know if what they say in as immediately true relative to your reality/way, whereas with things that simply are, you can depend on its Truthfulness at any time.

It's like playing telephone to me, I guess. I can get it from some guy and hope that his interpretation however far down the chain, it still has the original message not too obfuscated, or I can look for my Truth, myself. It's like when I hear something from another man, I dedicate mental faculty towards the whys he says what he says to understand where he's coming from, and only then can I get closer to Truth, whereas if I don't and just take it on authority/whatever cognitive bias, reality distortion can set in. I do understand that sooner or later people might come out from that "better", but it's easy not to get so sidetracked if you remember your own Way. In other words, being around another person enough, inevitably they'll say something faulty, and if you're not aware, it's easy that that faultiness can propagate and start more cycles/lessons on Truth we have to learn.

I hope I got my dilemma out understandably enough. I think there's a difference in the follower who takes what a man says as 100% true versus a follower that listens and tries to resolve that into his own Truthful paradigm.
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1019
November 01, 2014, 03:04:09 PM
I can dig that Smiley
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
October 31, 2014, 10:39:52 PM
The seeding/original intention of an institution, I think, has a pervading effect upon its future. Just an opinion though. The point is not to be ruled by man, but by God, and churches (rather, church leaders) can blur the lines between the two in a way that we might fall prey be to like a god personified, which to me is different than us personifying God through our beings.

"As above, so below" concept, etc.

The Old Testament tells us that God doesn't change. The New Testament tells us that Jesus doesn't change, and that He is God along with His Father. The New Testament also tells us that we are found in Jesus, and He in God. So, when you put this together, we have been around forever, in Jesus. This is part of the reason that God allowed the world to exist after sin had been found in it. God is giving us the chance to remain in Jesus. Many folks have used their God-power to remove themselves from God, through their denial of Him, thereby causing their own destruction.

God is simplicity, yet God is complexity at the same time. Explaining how and why the above fits together won't be easy. Perhaps it isn't entirely possible for us in our human condition to explain.

Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1019
October 31, 2014, 10:37:53 AM
The seeding/original intention of an institution, I think, has a pervading effect upon its future. Just an opinion though. The point is not to be ruled by man, but by God, and churches (rather, church leaders) can blur the lines between the two in a way that we might fall prey be to like a god personified, which to me is different than us personifying God through our beings.

"As above, so below" concept, etc.
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
October 31, 2014, 08:09:03 AM
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1019
October 31, 2014, 01:12:05 AM
Quote from: Astro Theology
The word Church comes from the Greek Goddess of deception Circe, who lured men into her lair and transformed them into pigs. The word Amen used at the end of prayer by Christians, Muslims, Hindus and Jews comes from the Pharaoh Amenhotep and the Egyptian God AmenRa. Amen was known as “the hidden one” in Egyptian beliefs and could change into other Gods like Osiris and Set at will.

The origin of the word "church" is from kuriakon or kyriakon in Greek, but it is known in Scotland as "kirk," in Germany as "Kirche," and in the Netherlands as "kerk." It means a building (the house of Kurios, or house of the Lord), in which in 1 Corinthians 8:5 it says that there are many lords, in which the custom of the Pagans was the worship of Sun Gods and reverence of them as being Lords. So refering to the church as the house of the Lord, is not denoting what Lord, because the meaning never did, so the people today have no idea they referring to an idol god. The word Kirche is similar to the Hebrew word (kikkar) Rkk, meaning a disk or cicle thus meaning Sun Worship. The Sun was worshipped as Baal or Lord by a full circle of pagans, which is why pagans worshipped on the first day of the week, Sun-day, as those claiming to be christians are doing today unaware that they are actually pagans.

Another origin of the word Church is found in the Anglo Saxon root word Circe, which stems from the Greek name of the goddess "Circe", who was the daughter of the Sun God worshipped as "Christos Helios", from whom the name Christ is derived from who was a Roman Sun god. The proper Hebrew word is Aqhal (Ihq) which means Assembly, Company, Congregation, called out as an organized body. So as you can see by the etymology of the word "Church", it is clearly of Pagan origin, and has nothing to do with the Most High nor his people, but has everything to do with those who worship the Sun as god on Sun-day, in their Roman Pantheon known as a Church. See what most people in these religious institutions don't know is that, Roman Emperor Constantine The Great in 321 AD, legislated Sun-day as a day of rest dedicated to the Greek and Roman Sun-god, Helios. Constantine worshipped "Christos Helios" which means "Christ-The-True-Sun.

Church comes from the Anglo-Saxon root word "circe," and stems from the Greek name of the goddess "Circe," the daughter of "Helios," the Roman Sun-god adopted from Greek mythology. So today, these people in these religious institutions throughout the world, have been deceived into worshipping Helios in his daughter's name Church, and are really Pagans in every form shape and fashion. Most churches you see estaablished today, are State controlled 501-C (3) Corporations. A Church that is formed under the permission of the State and thereby accepts State offered benefits for doing so, is no longer under the "headship" of Messiah, but has instead placed it's self under the sole authority of the State. A 501-C (3) Church or any Church formed by State permission under any "Corporate form" will no longer be permitted to discuss the affairs that may counter or oppose the rules or laws established by the State, for they are at the complete mercy of the State in all matters. This is why you will never see your TD Snakes, and Eddie Money Long, and Creflo Got Your Dollar or Create A Flow Dollar, Joel Oscheme, ever speak out agains't the government, because they have signed their soul over to the State.

Acts 5:29 states - Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. So if the Most High as he has done with everyone of his servants the prophets, and his Son, move on them to prophesy against the nation and governments of the earth, these religious sold out State flunkies, have to disobey the Most High and obey man who pays their salary, or else be dealt with by the State and then Jewish Elite who controls the American government. The Son of Man and his disciples went to the people to teach, they didn't have no church setup for the people to come and hear them to get knowledge, the Pharisees and the hypocrites had churches, aka temples and synagogues. The Son of Man and his disciples were in the streets were the sick and blind and lepers were, in the streets is where the word of the Most High is needed, not in some Pagan temple.

...
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