Topic: [CLOSED] S.DICE - SatoshiDICE 100% Dividend-Paying Asset on MPEx - page 97. (Read 316488 times)

nope, i offer my services for a one time 3% or .5btc (whichever is lowest) fee.

First, let me say that SatoshiDICE is awesome and I wish it the best.

High risk doesn't always mean high reward.  The fact that Erik is taking the vast majority of the money to reinvest personally in Bitcoin should tell you what he thinks the better bet is.

Now, I'm all for diversification of one's portfolio but there are a lot of negatives here that have me failing to see the 10x valuation.

Apologies in advance if any of these have already been addressed in this thread:

1.  Service is potentially illegal in many jurisdictions, including the US.
2.  I can't tell if this is actually a registered legal entity, nor whether the paperwork has been properly done to allow investment and protect investors.
3.  The deal structure doesn't resemble so much a company taking investment as it does an individual shareholder selling shares.  Your money, by in large, won't be reinvested in the company.
4.  Is Erik actively involved in growing the business full time or is he devoting the majority of his time to other projects?
5.  It sounds like the company hasn't been keeping any reserves so if it does get hit with a big lawsuit or other expense, what happens?  Does Erik come out of pocket?
6.  If the site is targeted for attack, as other gambling sites are, your hosting bill could quickly become $10k/mo, eating away 1/3 of the profits.
7.  Is it more likely or less likely that if Bitcoin is still around in 5 years it will have faced some form of regulation?
8.  If Bitcoin goes bust, what of value is left for the shareholders?  Does the business have any revenue streams not entirely dependent on Bitcoin?
9.  Does the company possess any assets that are not easily replicable?  Any especially valuable trade secrets, patents, trademarks or other intellectual property?  How about even user information?
10.  Just because the clone attempts so far have failed, that doesn't mean future ones will.  For $300k, someone could do a lot more than clone SD, and own 100% of it.
11.  A bet on a fully Bitcoin-dependent business is generally riskier than a bet on Bitcoin itself, and in this case the expected return doesn't justify it.
12.  What prevents Erik from taking a salary or hiring someone to replace him, or taking on other expenses that will drastically reduce profit?  Is there a board of directors he works for?
13.  Low barrier to entry.
14.  Botched funding round eliminates any possibility for a serious company to purchase SD in the future.
15.  Acts of god.

As someone with experience in investing in startups, I'm going to have to steer clear of this one.  Even if all the business stuff were above board, I'd think that for all the negatives, the valuation wouldn't be greater than 2x, and even that's a stretch.  Again, I'd much rather just put my money in to Bitcoin or save it for a promising Bitcoin business that actually needs it to grow, not just to cash out the owner.  Anyway, can't blame Erik for trying.  I'd gladly take his end of the deal all day long.

Oh, and why raise the funds before the new site is launched?  Usually, you launch your thing and then use that as a basis for raising money at a higher valuation.

If the porn star disappears, how do you handle the payments?

Can we save the discussion of GLBSE vs. MPEx for other threads?

Now that DeaDTerra has the passthrough on GLBSE, people can choose whichever platform they like.

We can continue the discussion of why some people think SD is overvalued so I can continue arguing with them   That is a good and proper vetting and information distillation process.

Who said anything about GPG... You know that your site dates back to 1990s?

The 5% admin fee is to cover the fees and work it takes to setup the pass through
It costs 20 BTC just to setup a account and it's quit complicated xD
I asked the people in IRC for a fair number they told me 10 so I took 5%
//DeaDTerra

I don't want to pay you 20 BTC. I am fully capable of using cryptography. Your assumption that everyone who uses bitcoin must understand cryptography is foolish. Bitcoin has far more uses than an investment. Various services have shown that you do not need to understand cryptography, or even hold a bitcoin balance to use it. Some people never hold bitcoin assets, and merely use them to transfer between various currencies.

"Oh yeah clearsign this...."

"No! your public key hasn't been signed"

You started using GPG in your porn?

Let me make something perfectly clear to you: there is no other form.

All login-and-password sites in bitcoin have been hacked. All of them. MtGox was hacked. Bitcoinica was hacked. There is no future there.

Learn to love GPG. Thinking you are part of a cryptocurrency and being unable to use cryptography, the most basic and user-friendly version imaginable to boot is a little sad. Lying to yourself that this is okay...well....

Wow.


You just compared apple to oranges. And S.DICE is a bad investment anyway.

MPOE is unusable in its current form.

I have no idea where you are getting either of these numbers, GLBSE has done 19BTC shy of 25K BTC volume in the last 5 days, we're coming out at about 150K volume a month, and we've not even removed the BTC buy reserve yet(later today).

Let's be realistic here for a second. In ten years, SatoshiDICE will not exist in its current form, this industry is moving far too fast for such a thing to happen.

One of three futures await SD:

1) Interest wanes, profits fall, and the site stagnates at some lower level. Maybe sold to someone later at a discount.

2) Interest remains roughly constant, site brings in 20-50k BTC per year in profits. Likely sold to Bitcoin or casino company within 1-5 years.

3) Interest rises, site profits increase. Likely sold to Bitcoin or casino company within 1-5 years.

If #1 happens, then yes this stock IPO is probably a bad investment and investors will receive back a fraction of what they put in.  If #2 happens, investors will earn money faster than they would elsewhere in the world, though not as fast as some other Bitcoin investments (especially those paying 7% per week...). When the future buyout happens, the investors will likely see appreciation in their shares as well.  If #3 happens, investors in the IPO will make a lot of money, both in dividends as they increase and when the buyout happens down the road.

Nobody should think they need to buy and hold shares in this for 10 years for it to "pay off". That is misleading. Investors will profit or fall, and they'll likely know which way it's going to go over the next 6-24 months.

So the choice comes down to: Pay 20BTC up front or pay 5% of dividends in perpetuity?

Over the course of your GLBSE investments have you had a volume of over 4000 BTC?


You double your investment assuming that stock price does not drop and the stocks remain liquid.

UPDATE: Pass-through fund available on GLBSE for easy investment in SatoshiDICE: https://glbse.com/asset/view/GSDPT

Thanks to DeaDTerra for getting this set up (that guy is a badass)

Over the course of my GLBSE investments, I've spent  zero USD.

For the 100th time, can we please stop this nonsense?  In 10 years, your money is doubled JUST from the current dividend payments. This is very different than "paying off" in 10 years. You're not breaking even in 10 years, you're actually doubling your money, assuming the site doesn't grow by a single user.

If you think it's priced too high that's fine, but please at least do your math properly if you're going to post.