[CLOSED] S.DICE - SatoshiDICE 100% Dividend-Paying Asset on MPEx - page 94.

misterbigg

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Quote from: evoorhees on August 22, 2012, 04:06:51 PM

Quote from: misterbigg on August 22, 2012, 01:47:46 PM

Could we please have a direct answer as to why you chose MPOx instead of GLBSE to host the IPO? In my opinion this decision is quite a blemish.

I've already answered this but will do so again. Fundamentally, I like seeing alternative platforms develop.

What I really meant to ask is "Why are you choosing an exchange whose operator insults people routinely and is surrounded by very shady and questionable circumstances." For example:

Quote from: MPOE-PR on August 10, 2012, 08:34:34 PM

If it weren't for the fact that "ciuciu" is a common way to say "jack shit" in Romanian, as in "investors get jack shit" and the correct derivation in Ciuciulete that indicates familiarity of issuer with that language, I'd almost consider this legit. Then I'd remember it's offered on GLBSE and chuckle at the notion.

MPOE-PR

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Quote

So you're essentially putting up a barrier of entry of 20 BTC to keep the "citizens" out? Forcing them to either pay you or use a broker/pass through if they wish to trade the assets on your exchange?

This reminds me of the attempts throughout history (lol internet history) to keep the noobs, trolls, and kids out of forums. When things don't go the way they wanted it to, the ones that would complain are going to do so even louder, because they paid someone for the opportunity. I'm not saying it doesn't work to some degree... It's just that it's been tried before.

I'd have to quote here

Quote

Aug 20 16:37:22    EmanuelDeOrtego actually mpex charges the lowest fee in all of btc.
Aug 20 16:38:19    micrea_popescu: Well, that is technically true if you discount the 20 BTC registration which is still fair.
Aug 20 16:38:28    I like your model
Aug 20 16:38:31    yeah, something like that.
Aug 20 16:38:50    It lets the markets be more accurate.
Aug 20 16:38:57    and you still get the bills paid.
Aug 20 16:39:11    also cuts out on the drama something fierce.
Aug 20 16:39:29    put 20 btc entrance barrier, lose 99.999% of all drama.
Aug 20 16:39:32    seems a good deal to me.
Aug 20 16:39:40    Righto.

I imagine the problem is not exactly the loudness as much as the senselessness. People complaining meaningfully about something substantial aren't a liability, they're an asset. When it turns to complaining for lack of activity and in hopes of milking some excitement out of the dreary white collar slave day... that's another matter.

On a side note: maybe you should try the IRC, it really doesn't bite.

boonies4u

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Quote from: MPOE-PR on August 23, 2012, 04:17:47 PM

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Isn't that the whole entire point of Bitcoin: to give the power of finance back to the citizens, because the people at the top only THINK they know what they are doing, but still f*ck things up as badly as a regular Joe Shmoe would? (Like in 2008)
And what kind of fancy finance training do you need, exactly, just to auction off % shares of your company at market-determined rates? Just put it out there and let people pay what they think you are worth.

Well, I can appreciate that school of thought, it just doesn't convince me. Could be pure bias, obviously.

So you're essentially putting up a barrier of entry of 20 BTC to keep the "citizens" out? Forcing them to either pay you or use a broker/pass through if they wish to trade the assets on your exchange?

This reminds me of the attempts throughout history (lol internet history) to keep the noobs, trolls, and kids out of forums. When things don't go the way they wanted it to, the ones that would complain are going to do so even louder, because they paid someone for the opportunity. I'm not saying it doesn't work to some degree... It's just that it's been tried before.

MPOE-PR

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Quote

Isn't that the whole entire point of Bitcoin: to give the power of finance back to the citizens, because the people at the top only THINK they know what they are doing, but still f*ck things up as badly as a regular Joe Shmoe would? (Like in 2008)
And what kind of fancy finance training do you need, exactly, just to auction off % shares of your company at market-determined rates? Just put it out there and let people pay what they think you are worth.

Well, I can appreciate that school of thought, it just doesn't convince me. Could be pure bias, obviously.

ciuciu

donator

Activity: 588

Merit: 500

Quote from: Rassah on August 23, 2012, 01:12:19 PM

Quote from: MPOE-PR on August 23, 2012, 09:13:32 AM

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This whole exchange mess really needs to be taken out of the hands of amateurs and be done correctly by people who have experience with such things. Citizen finance is worse than citizen dentistry.

It's what we're doing here, at any rate.

Isn't that the whole entire point of Bitcoin: to give the power of finance back to the citizens, because the people at the top only THINK they know what they are doing, but still f*ck things up as badly as a regular Joe Shmoe would? (Like in 2008)
And what kind of fancy finance training do you need, exactly, just to auction off % shares of your company at market-determined rates? Just put it out there and let people pay what they think you are worth.

Please stop being rational

. We are all here to make him rich. We just want to switch the handlers.

Rassah

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Quote from: MPOE-PR on August 23, 2012, 09:13:32 AM

Quote

This whole exchange mess really needs to be taken out of the hands of amateurs and be done correctly by people who have experience with such things. Citizen finance is worse than citizen dentistry.

It's what we're doing here, at any rate.

Isn't that the whole entire point of Bitcoin: to give the power of finance back to the citizens, because the people at the top only THINK they know what they are doing, but still f*ck things up as badly as a regular Joe Shmoe would? (Like in 2008)
And what kind of fancy finance training do you need, exactly, just to auction off % shares of your company at market-determined rates? Just put it out there and let people pay what they think you are worth.

ciuciu

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Quote from: MPOE-PR on August 23, 2012, 09:13:32 AM

Quote

This whole exchange mess really needs to be decoupled and decentralized.

You're right in that "the exchange mess". Without going into historical causes of the present situation, we don't think the solution you propose works. The correct solution would be:

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This whole exchange mess really needs to be taken out of the hands of amateurs and be done correctly by people who have experience with such things. Citizen finance is worse than citizen dentistry.

It's what we're doing here, at any rate.

And given to a porn star like you, Mircea Popescu.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/heres-where-i-spew-my-accusations-against-mpoe-all-are-welcome-102333

MPOE-PR

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Quote

This whole exchange mess really needs to be decoupled and decentralized.

You're right in that "the exchange mess". Without going into historical causes of the present situation, we don't think the solution you propose works. The correct solution would be:

Quote

This whole exchange mess really needs to be taken out of the hands of amateurs and be done correctly by people who have experience with such things. Citizen finance is worse than citizen dentistry.

It's what we're doing here, at any rate.

misterbigg

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Quote from: Rassah on August 22, 2012, 05:20:30 PM

This whole exchange mess really needs to be decoupled and decentralized.

Agreed. This is the problem that Open Transactions claims to solve:

https://github.com/FellowTraveler/Open-Transactions

Rassah

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This whole exchange mess really needs to be decoupled and decentralized. We have the ability to send dividend receiving addresses, sign them to prove ownership, and even sign proofs of transfer if someone wants to sell to someone else (e.g. I own a share linked to an address, I sell that share to someone with a different address, then I just send you a message asking you to record the other address as the new owner and sign that message with my address's private key). With all this new stuff Bitcoin offers, why are we relying on centralized service middlemen? Someone should get on creating a simple app that lets people issue and track shares by themselves automatically, and decouple the bidding/trading portion of it (you know, in the way that "someone" has created an automated lottery that doesn't rely on input from the owner and can run and be verified automatically). Hell, eBay would work for trading shares that way.

evoorhees

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Democracy is the original 51% attack

Quote from: misterbigg on August 22, 2012, 01:47:46 PM

Quote from: evoorhees on August 22, 2012, 12:26:37 PM

Beyond this FUD stuff, I've been quite please with the debates. Discussion of finance, values, prices, and business is a great endeavor carried out by noble people. If all the world's problems were settled with free-market equity debates, the world would be a wonderful place

Could we please have a direct answer as to why you chose MPOx instead of GLBSE to host the IPO? In my opinion this decision is quite a blemish.

I've already answered this but will do so again. Fundamentally, I like seeing alternative platforms develop. I don't want GLBSE to be the only place companies can list, and it receives 90% of the attention. By listing a high-profile site like SD on MPEx, it diversifies the market. Further, since passthroughs can exist (and DeaDTerra has created one) it means the users of GLBSE will also be able to invest.

As mentioned before, I'm a big fan of GLBSE and have good relationships with the people involved on that site.

smickles

sr. member

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Quote from: ninjaboon on August 22, 2012, 02:01:40 AM

Quote from: CIYAM on August 19, 2012, 11:49:57 PM

Quote from: evoorhees on August 19, 2012, 11:41:12 PM

Here's the FAQ http://polimedia.us/bitcoin/faq.html

The FAQ mentions about having to pay a 20 BTC amount to register your GPG key with them.

So does this mean that it would cost each person 20 BTC just to put in a bid for the shares?

I have less than 1 btc in my wallet. So I guess I will skip this IPO.

You could use a brokerage service.
I offer such services, and you would only be charged about .03 btc to place such a bid through me.

cytokine

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Quote from: Factory on August 22, 2012, 01:02:03 PM

Quote from: evoorhees on August 22, 2012, 12:26:37 PM

Beyond this FUD stuff, I've been quite please with the debates. Discussion of finance, values, prices, and business is a great endeavor carried out by noble people. If all the world's problems were settled with free-market equity debates, the world would be a wonderful place

I have enjoyed discussing this IPO. I feel I have made my points, and I will now refrain from posting on this thread.

While in my view it is unlikely; I hope this IPO is a success for the issuer and investors alike. I look forward to seeing how it unfolds.

Indeed it is all very interesting and I wish you luck. As for me, however, I'm waiting my usual 7 week period post-IPO before considering this asset. The market will tell us all very quickly if the asset is mispriced or not, and so I want to see how it trades, what the dividends are, what kind of growth it experiences over the next month+, what kind of competition moves in, and so forth. I don't really care what the pre-IPO numbers say, I only care about what actually occurs in the marketplace.

My best guess is that it's already extremely overvalued at IPO relative to other assets, but that doesn't mean it won't reach a buy area later on after a significant decline in price.

Also, read this, and read it again... this guy gets it:

Quote from: bitfoo on August 20, 2012, 11:15:14 AM

Surely if one is bullish on BTC and believes that there will eventually be more good companies, 1.5% of all BTC seems unlikely in the long term, let alone growing beyond that. It might make sense if valued in USD though ($3.2 mil) - that number could have growth potential.

misterbigg

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Quote from: evoorhees on August 22, 2012, 12:26:37 PM

Beyond this FUD stuff, I've been quite please with the debates. Discussion of finance, values, prices, and business is a great endeavor carried out by noble people. If all the world's problems were settled with free-market equity debates, the world would be a wonderful place

Could we please have a direct answer as to why you chose MPOx instead of GLBSE to host the IPO? In my opinion this decision is quite a blemish.

Factory

sr. member

Activity: 259

Merit: 250

Quote from: evoorhees on August 22, 2012, 12:26:37 PM

Beyond this FUD stuff, I've been quite please with the debates. Discussion of finance, values, prices, and business is a great endeavor carried out by noble people. If all the world's problems were settled with free-market equity debates, the world would be a wonderful place

I have enjoyed discussing this IPO. I feel I have made my points, and I will now refrain from posting on this thread.

While in my view it is unlikely; I hope this IPO is a success for the issuer and investors alike. I look forward to seeing how it unfolds.

boonies4u

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Quote from: evoorhees on August 22, 2012, 12:26:37 PM

Beyond this FUD stuff, I've been quite please with the debates. Discussion of finance, values, prices, and business is a great endeavor carried out by noble people. If all the world's problems were settled with free-market equity debates, the world would be a wonderful place

Wonderful and entertaining are two separate things.

evoorhees

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Democracy is the original 51% attack

zebedee

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As a bond trader ex-colleague is fond of saying:

There's no such thing as a bad bond, only a bad price

Buyer beware.

boonies4u

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ciuciu

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Topic: [CLOSED] S.DICE - SatoshiDICE 100% Dividend-Paying Asset on MPEx - page 94. (Read 316488 times)