▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ Cloudmining 101 (ponzi risk assessment) ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁ - page 22.

Indianacoin

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 252

Quote from: Lbtcl PR on January 27, 2016, 11:14:51 PM

I would like to introduce Lbtcl.com, a new hash rate market. Currently, you can buy 1TH for 0.59BTC. Check it out.

Really newbie?
Where are the proofs?
Proof of mining? Public addresses?? etc.

You should introduce your farm (if it really is one!) in the format mentioned on op. Please do some effort to make us convince that your firm is real.

We are not in 2009 right?

Good Luck Tongue

syndria

hero member

Activity: 980

Merit: 500

Quote from: Lbtcl PR on January 27, 2016, 11:14:51 PM

I would like to introduce Lbtcl.com, a new hash rate market. Currently, you can buy 1TH for 0.59BTC. Check it out.

Payout proof? And post it using your main account so we can be convinced somehow

userghost

jr. member

Activity: 284

Merit: 3

Did you hear back from BITMAINS for miningsweden.se?

Lbtcl PR

newbie

Activity: 12

Merit: 0

I would like to introduce Lbtcl.com, a new hash rate market. Currently, you can buy 1TH for 0.59BTC. Check it out.

Karartma1

legendary

Activity: 2310

Merit: 1422

Quote from: alani123 on January 23, 2016, 09:19:21 AM

Quote from: crazyivan on January 23, 2016, 01:56:00 AM

Quote from: kingaltcoins on January 21, 2016, 11:24:48 PM

Zeushash has stopped paying out to the miners! They have come up with a terrible excuse which is being displayed every time I click the withdrawal button. Undecided

Zeus s been receiving nothing but bad press since the day they started operating and it seems they deserve it. Can anyone confirm they own HalleyBTC?

What would be the point of proving that they own it or operate it? They advertised it directly through their main website, wouldn't that be enough to prove a close relation between the two? HalleyBTC is just another ponzi much like Zeushash's mining scheme that never paid out.

The same happened to cointellect exactly last year: at some point payments got suspended and the ponzi scam revelead itself for what it was.

Puppet

legendary

Activity: 980

Merit: 1040

newcomers might get carried away by up to date facts too. After all these years, many people still dont understand the fundamentals of mining. Even people that have been around for years often fail to understand that as long as there is a profit to be made from mining, its going to be exploited by the asic manufacturers either via sales, or self mining; not their customers and especially not those customers' investors.

As for cryptx, scoring it as a predicted ponzi is simply incorrect, I dont see how an untruth could be more helpful than the truth. It was legit, even if it was a terrible investment.

And yes, rumors of my death have been slightly exaggerated Wink

. Ive just been fed up with signal to noise ratio on this board.

Indianacoin

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 252

At last you replied after so long Cheesy

Yes I have been updating the list since the former one is backdated according to the recent trend I suppose.

Quote from: Puppet on January 25, 2016, 07:23:05 AM

Also, I have not been following the mining/ponzi scene for quite some time, but at least one in that updated list is incorrect. Cryptx was never a ponzi.

I support your statement but I dont think its worth mentioning Cryptx is legit now since all newbies will get mislead by the former controversies.

Quote from: Puppet on January 25, 2016, 07:23:05 AM

Please keep it as it was, along with amhash it serves as a good reminder that good scores on this ponzi assessment list say nothing about the likelihood of producing a profit. A good understanding of the zero sum mining game and the economics of producing vs selling asics is a far better predictor.

Should I? Or will it be better if I add a note beside them stating that they were legit before but suspended their contracts afterwards?

Note: I actually updated the list with my main intention to provide a helping hand for new comers who might get carried away with the outdated facts.

Puppet

legendary

Activity: 980

Merit: 1040

I see someone else has been updating the list; I dont really mind that, but please keep in mind the list isnt what matters most, its the rationale behind it. I fear having a list of "least worst" mining securities draws in investments that will still end up generating losses as cloud mining investment remains a stupid idea that overall can not yield a BTC denominated profit. The only profits to be had are short term flipping or exploiting the greater fool theory.

Also, I have not been following the mining/ponzi scene for quite some time, but at least one in that updated list is incorrect. Cryptx was never a ponzi. It was a hugely overpriced mining bond that I predicted would result in terrible losses, but that doesnt make it a ponzi. Even though I was the most vocal, if not only voice warning investors that it was a monumentally stupid investment at that time, it scored 0 in my assessment, and that was appropriate then, still is today. Much like GigaVPS once upon a time, and not entirely unlike Cex.io it was one of the more honest and transparent offers; you cant blame the issuers for investors willing to pay 5-10x more than what it could realistically yield in mining dividends.

Please keep it as it was, along with amhash it serves as a good reminder that good scores on this ponzi assessment list say nothing about the likelihood of producing a profit. A good understanding of the zero sum mining game and the economics of producing vs selling asics is a far better predictor.

btw, even though the latter website may still be up, bitcoincloudservices and minerslab have already collapsed. Im sure there are more on that list that are already defunct.

alani123

legendary

Activity: 2422

Merit: 1451

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: crazyivan on January 23, 2016, 01:56:00 AM

Quote from: kingaltcoins on January 21, 2016, 11:24:48 PM

Zeushash has stopped paying out to the miners! They have come up with a terrible excuse which is being displayed every time I click the withdrawal button. Undecided

Zeus s been receiving nothing but bad press since the day they started operating and it seems they deserve it. Can anyone confirm they own HalleyBTC?

What would be the point of proving that they own it or operate it? They advertised it directly through their main website, wouldn't that be enough to prove a close relation between the two? HalleyBTC is just another ponzi much like Zeushash's mining scheme that never paid out.

Indianacoin

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 252

Quote from: crazyivan on January 23, 2016, 01:56:00 AM

Zeus s been receiving nothing but bad press since the day they started operating and it seems they deserve it. Can anyone confirm they own HalleyBTC?

Nope. Their servers are totally different. Although it is not the ultimate proof but you can take a look at their whois:

Code:

halleybtc.com registry whois

Domain Name: HALLEYBTC.COM
Registrar: HICHINA ZHICHENG TECHNOLOGY LTD.
Sponsoring Registrar IANA ID: 420
Whois Server: grs-whois.hichina.com
Referral URL: http://www.net.cn
Name Server: F1G1NS1.DNSPOD.NET
Name Server: F1G1NS2.DNSPOD.NET
Status: ok https://www.icann.org/epp#OK
Updated Date: 21-aug-2015
Creation Date: 04-aug-2015
Expiration Date: 04-aug-2016

halleybtc.com registrar whois

Domain Name: halleybtc.com
Registry Domain ID: 1951009743_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN
Registrar WHOIS Server: grs-whois.hichina.com
Registrar URL: http://whois.aliyun.com/
Updated Date: 2015-08-21T13:32:01Z
Creation Date: 2015-08-04T14:17:02Z
Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2016-08-04T14:17:02Z
Registrar: HICHINA ZHICHENG TECHNOLOGY LTD.
Registrar IANA ID: 420
Reseller:
Domain Status: ok http://www.icann.org/epp#OK
Registry Registrant ID: Not Available From Registry
Registrant Name: YinSi BaoHu Yi KaiQi (Hidden by Whois Privacy Protection Service)
Registrant Organization: YinSi BaoHu Yi KaiQi (Hidden by Whois Privacy Protection Service)
Registrant Street: 3/F.,HiChina Mansion,No.27 Gulouwai Avenue,Dongcheng District,Beijing 100120,China,
Registrant City: Beijing
Registrant State/Province: Beijing
Registrant Postal Code: 100120
Registrant Country: CN
Registrant Phone: +86.1065985888
Registrant Phone Ext:
Registrant Fax: +86.1065985438
Registrant Fax Ext:
Registrant Email: [email protected]
Registry Admin ID: Not Available From Registry
Admin Name: YinSi BaoHu Yi KaiQi (Hidden by Whois Privacy Protection Service)
Admin Organization: YinSi BaoHu Yi KaiQi (Hidden by Whois Privacy Protection Service)
Admin Street: 3/F.,HiChina Mansion,No.27 Gulouwai Avenue,Dongcheng District,Beijing 100120,China,
Admin City: Beijing
Admin State/Province: Beijing
Admin Postal Code: 100120
Admin Country: CN
Admin Phone: +86.1065985888
Admin Phone Ext:
Admin Fax:+86.1065985438
Admin Fax Ext:
Admin Email: [email protected]
Registry Tech ID: Not Available From Registry
Tech Name: YinSi BaoHu Yi KaiQi (Hidden by Whois Privacy Protection Service)
Tech Organization: YinSi BaoHu Yi KaiQi (Hidden by Whois Privacy Protection Service)
Tech Street: 3/F.,HiChina Mansion,No.27 Gulouwai Avenue,Dongcheng District,Beijing 100120,China,
Tech City: Beijing
Tech State/Province: Beijing
Tech Postal Code: 100120
Tech Country: CN
Tech Phone: +86.1065985888
Tech Phone Ext:
Tech Fax: +86.1065985438
Tech Fax Ext:
Tech Email: [email protected]
Name Server: f1g1ns1.dnspod.net
Name Server: f1g1ns2.dnspod.net
DNSSEC: unsigned
Registrar Abuse Contact Email: [email protected]
Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +86.4006008500
URL of the ICANN WHOIS Data Problem Reporting System: http://wdprs.internic.net/
>>> Last update of WHOIS database: 2015-08-21T13:32:01Z <<<

Registry Billing ID: Not Available From Registry
Billing Name: YinSi BaoHu Yi KaiQi (Hidden by Whois Privacy Protection Service)
Billing Organization: YinSi BaoHu Yi KaiQi (Hidden by Whois Privacy Protection Service)
Billing Street: 3/F.,HiChina Mansion,No.27 Gulouwai Avenue,Dongcheng District,Beijing 100120,China,
Billing City: Beijing
Billing State/Province: Beijing
Billing Postal Code: 100120
Billing Country: CN
Billing Phone: +86.1065985888
Billing Phone Ext:
Billing Fax: +86.1065985438
Billing Fax Ext:
Billing Email: [email protected]

Code:

zeushash.com registry whois

Domain Name: ZEUSHASH.COM
Registrar: GODADDY.COM, LLC
Sponsoring Registrar IANA ID: 146
Whois Server: whois.godaddy.com
Referral URL: http://registrar.godaddy.com
Name Server: COCO.NS.CLOUDFLARE.COM
Name Server: MATT.NS.CLOUDFLARE.COM
Status: clientDeleteProhibited https://www.icann.org/epp#clientDeleteProhibited
Status: clientRenewProhibited https://www.icann.org/epp#clientRenewProhibited
Status: clientTransferProhibited https://www.icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited
Status: clientUpdateProhibited https://www.icann.org/epp#clientUpdateProhibited
Updated Date: 26-apr-2015
Creation Date: 14-apr-2014
Expiration Date: 14-apr-2016

zeushash.com registrar whois

Domain Name: ZEUSHASH.COM
Registry Domain ID: 1854641713_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.godaddy.com
Registrar URL: http://www.godaddy.com
Update Date: 2015-03-05T11:56:43Z
Creation Date: 2014-04-14T12:03:37Z
Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2016-04-14T12:03:37Z
Registrar: GoDaddy.com, LLC
Registrar IANA ID: 146
Registrar Abuse Contact Email: [email protected]
Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +1.4806242505
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited
Domain Status: clientUpdateProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientUpdateProhibited
Domain Status: clientRenewProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientRenewProhibited
Domain Status: clientDeleteProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientDeleteProhibited
Registry Registrant ID: Not Available From Registry
Registrant Name: Miner Zeus
Registrant Organization:
Registrant Street: CheGongMiao,FuTian
Registrant City: ShenZhen
Registrant State/Province: GuangDong
Registrant Postal Code: 500000
Registrant Country: HK
Registrant Phone: +86.18682150553
Registrant Phone Ext:
Registrant Fax:
Registrant Fax Ext:
Registrant Email: [email protected]
Registry Admin ID: Not Available From Registry
Admin Name: Zeus Zeus
Admin Organization:
Admin Street: CheGongMiao,FuTian
Admin City: ShenZhen
Admin State/Province: GuangDong
Admin Postal Code: 500000
Admin Country: HK
Admin Phone: +86.18682150553
Admin Phone Ext:
Admin Fax:
Admin Fax Ext:
Admin Email: [email protected]
Registry Tech ID: Not Available From Registry
Tech Name: Zeus Zeus
Tech Organization:
Tech Street: CheGongMiao,FuTian
Tech City: ShenZhen
Tech State/Province: GuangDong
Tech Postal Code: 500000
Tech Country: HK
Tech Phone: +86.18682150553
Tech Phone Ext:
Tech Fax:
Tech Fax Ext:
Tech Email: [email protected]
Name Server: COCO.NS.CLOUDFLARE.COM
Name Server: MATT.NS.CLOUDFLARE.COM
DNSSEC: unsigned
URL of the ICANN WHOIS Data Problem Reporting System: http://wdprs.internic.net/
>>> Last update of WHOIS database: 2016-01-23T10:00:00Z <<<

See if you can find anything similar among the two.

crazyivan

legendary

Activity: 1652

Merit: 1007

DMD Diamond Making Money 4+ years! Join us!

Quote from: kingaltcoins on January 21, 2016, 11:24:48 PM

Zeushash has stopped paying out to the miners! They have come up with a terrible excuse which is being displayed every time I click the withdrawal button. Undecided

Zeus s been receiving nothing but bad press since the day they started operating and it seems they deserve it. Can anyone confirm they own HalleyBTC?

Indianacoin

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 252

--- UPDATED LIST (22/01/2016) ---

{Previous update: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.13524082}

Ponzi's that have already collapsed, obsolete or suspended as predicted:

Code:

Zeushash              1+2+3+4+5          => 5/7 = (very) suspicious (Recently locked all wallets by giving numerous excuses - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=878387.msg13636220#msg13636220)
bitknock.com          1+2+3+4+5+6+7      => 7/7 = Ponzi
PBmining.com          1+2+3+4+5+6+7      => 7/7 = Ponzi
Lunaminer.com         1+2+3+4+5+6+7      => 7/7 = Ponzi
coinsoncloud.eu       1+2+3+4+5+6+7      => 7/7 = Ponzi
Cryptomine.io         1+2+3+4+5+6+7      => 7/7 = Ponzi
hashie.co             1+2+3+4+5+6+7      => 7/7 = Ponzi
bitcoinlabmining.com  1+2+3+4+5+6+7      => 7/7 = Ponzi 
ltcgear               1+2+3+4+5+6+7      => 7/7 = (very) suspicious
hashprofit.com        1+2+3+4+5+6+7      => 7/7 = Ponzi
minethatcloud.com     1+2+3+4+5+6+7      => 7/7 = Ponzi
CoIntellect.com       1+2+3+4+5+6+7      => 7/7 = Ponzi
terabox.me            1+2+3*+4+5+6+7*    => 7*/7 = Ponzi (pictures are not at all convincing, exit strategy involves  60+ days stall tactic)
chabatmining.com      1+2+3+4+5+6+7      => 7/7 = Ponzi
Ecrypto.co.in         1+2+3+4+5+6+7      => 7/7 = Ponzi (+ confirmed scam, they are no partners of cex.io)
GenerateBTC.com       1+2+3+4+5+6+7      => 7/7 = Ponzi
cloudminr.io          1+2+3+4+5+6+7      => 7/7 = Ponzi
grmining.com          1+2+3+4+5+6+7      => 7/7 = Ponzi
hashwar.co            1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8    => 7/7 = Ponzi
bitrush.com           1+2+3+4+5+6+7      => 7/7 = Ponzi
scrypt.cc             1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8    => 7/7 = Ponzi
Kryptologika          1+2+3+4+5+6+7      => 7/7 = Ponzi
Cryptsy MN            1+2+3+4+5+6+7      => 7/7 = Ponzi ( + no details on fee structure) (withdrawl problems noticed!)
Coolhash.com          1+2+3+4+5+6+7      => 7/7 = Ponzi (+ possible malware/wallet stealing software)
Bitminr.com           1+2+3+4+5+6+7      => 7/7 = Ponzi (+ possible malware/wallet stealing software)
MineProfit.com        1+2+3+4+5+6+7      => 7/7 = Ponzi (+ possible malware/wallet stealing software)
SpecialMiner.com      1+2+3+4+5+6+7      => 7/7 = Ponzi  (+ possible malware/wallet stealing software)
Cryptx PETAmine       1+2+3+4+5+6+7      => 7/7 = Ponzi
Scryptsy.com          1+2+3+4+5+6+7      => 7/7 = Ponzi
cloudhours.net        1+2+3+4+5+6+7      => 7/7 = Ponzi
bitcoinmaker.ch       1+2+3+4+6+7+8      => 7/7 = Ponzi 
AMhash                                   => 0/7 = Was legit but collapsed eventually 
KNCcloud              7                  => 1/7 = Legit but stopped selling contracts
Cex.io                4                  => 1/7 = Legit but suspended their contracts
Megamine.com          1+4                => 2/7 = Was probably legit but stopped mining without notice!
GAWminers             1+4+5+~7           => 4/7*= Partially legit based on criteria set forth. Based on wider context: more suspicious than a nun squatting in a cucumber field.

Likely Ponzi scams that have yet to collapse:

Code:

HourlyMine.com        1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8    => 7/7 = Ponzi
cldmine.com           1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8    => 7/7 = Ponzi
bitcoinmining.me      1+2+3+4+5+6+7      => 7/7 = Ponzi
Skycoinlab.com        1+2+3+4+5+6+7      => 7/7 = Ponzi (+ organized by serial ponzi scammer: ?topic=583177.msg10298730)
btcslice.com          1+2+3+4+5+6+7      => 7/7 = Ponzi (+ pays out in reversible paypal ?)
cloudmining.website   2+3+4+5+6+7        => 6/7 = Ponzi
eobot.com             1+2+3+5+6+7        => 6/7 = Ponzi (+ possible malware/wallet stealing software)
nexusmining.com       1+2*+3+4+5+7       => 6/7 = Ponzi (Guy from Spondoolies says im wrong, but I can't score what I haven't seen and he seems to confirm they have no hardware)
minerslab.com         1+2+3+4+6+7        => 6/7 = Ponzi (+ selling hardware that doesnt exist + using purchased "legendary" account) 
bitcoincloudservices  1+2+4+5+6*+7       => 6/7 = Ponzi (+ founded by known scammer  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=860400.msg9638868#msg9638868)
cloudmining.sg        1+2+4+6+7          => 5/7 = Ponzi (Founder's LinkedIn account deleted, Uses Weebly's free checkout platform)
hashcoins.com 
and hashflare.io     ~1+2+3+4+7          => 5/7 = (very) suspicious (user selectable pool requires fee, dc pictures show no miners, linkedin profile doctored, hardware sales very dubious,..) (*now owned by hashflare.io)
Bitminer.eu           1+2+5+6            => 4/7 = suspicious (+ Pictures of their miners might be Photoshopped)
Miningsweden.se       1+2*+5+7           => 4/7 = Quite suspicious (*will remove as soon as I receive confirmation from Bitmain)

Probably legit ones:

Code:

genesis-mining.com    1+2+5+7            => 4/7 = Probably legit.
pow88.com             1+2+5              => 3/7 = Probably legit (preliminary assessment) (Suspicious referral bonus : 1% hourly !!!)
Bit-x.com             1+4                => 2/7 = Probably legit (preliminary assessment, partnership confirmed by Bitfury)
haobtc.com            1+2                => 2/7 = Probably Legit (investment based cloudmining company => https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1023187.0)
bw.com                1                  => 1/7 = Legit (1 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=878387.msg13605117#msg13605117)
Hashnest              1                  => 1/7 = Legit (1 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=878387.msg13605117#msg13605117)

## Do you guys think I need to start a new thread to prevent the updated list from getting hidden under 76 pages of "out-dated" discussions? Let me know in the comments below.

Tips are much appreciated for maintaining and updating the list periodically!
My tip jar: 1SoumyadbsfCGsSekYdgAkWpGZM3WSaxt
Thanks

lottery248

legendary

Activity: 1582

Merit: 1006

beware of your keys.

Quote from: kingaltcoins on January 21, 2016, 11:24:48 PM

Zeushash has stopped paying out to the miners! They have come up with a terrible excuse which is being displayed every time I click the withdrawal button. Undecided

seems their site become the ponzi, you can sure that they are collapsed within the end of this month, actually they are DDoS protected AFAIK, so the hack cannot be an excuse to suspend their service, if that happens, that means the site is based on the investors' fund instead of using the real mining.

kingaltcoins

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 502

Zeushash has stopped paying out to the miners! They have come up with a terrible excuse which is being displayed every time I click the withdrawal button. Undecided

Indianacoin

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 252

Quote from: Hubus on January 21, 2016, 01:13:47 PM

Hi,

bitcoincloudservices.com stopped my payouts last year (2015) after about 5 months of a one year contract. Definitely scam.

But they still accept new "customers".

Nobody there who wants to make them pay?

BCS is definitely a scam from mid-2014. No one can do anything to these websites until the owner gets fed up paying their server fees, resulting in closing them down.
As you said they are still taking up orders and newbies are the only ones becoming victims of them.

From now on you need to stick to the above list if you do not want to get scammed any further.

Hubus

full member

Activity: 180

Merit: 100

Hi,

bitcoincloudservices.com stopped my payouts last year (2015) after about 5 months of a one year contract. Definitely scam.

But they still accept new "customers".

Nobody there who wants to make them pay?

Indianacoin

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 252

Quote from: Bitshire Hashaway on January 19, 2016, 07:17:21 AM

Why does hashnest gets 0/7 listing here?

The first rule here says user selectable pool. As I check my gh/s at hashnest , I can't decide its pool as it seems.

Hashnest is 1/7 at best.

Actually Hashnest is already considered to have a user selective pool since it already uses their ancillary pool, Antpool for mining via PPS mode. And more miners preferably seem to like Antpool and you can see for yourself from the total network hashrate distribution pie chart. (https://blockchain.info/pools?timespan=24hrs)

That is why Hashnest is approximately rated as 0/7 and along with me most others will also accept the same.
I am ready to change it to 1/7 in the next update if most of them does not agree with me.

Bitshire Hashaway

member

Activity: 70

Merit: 10

Why does hashnest gets 0/7 listing here?

The first rule here says user selectable pool. As I check my gh/s at hashnest , I can't decide its pool as it seems.

Hashnest is 1/7 at best.

gollumist

newbie

Activity: 57

Merit: 0

Let me share my recent experience with Genesis Mining
Recently they decrease the payment dramatically!!! Compared to 1 month ago - now they pay something like 1/10 (or 10%) of what they pay before December 2015 !
So if you like to invest there - the choice is yours

suchmoon

legendary

Activity: 3654

Merit: 8909

https://bpip.org

Quote from: Indianacoin on January 18, 2016, 05:04:50 PM

Quote from: galdur on January 18, 2016, 07:50:02 AM

http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc466/galdur/DHL9vMu.jpg

This is a very bad gesture for Genesis Mining.
Can Marco confirm if this conference really happened?

Also I cannot believe in Garza's tweet (http://archive.is/sgWol#selection-28581.0-28581.25) because he might have photoshopped this image to get Marco into trouble.
But if it happened really, then we need to be cautious regarding Genesis Mining.

Being in a picture with someone does not automatically mean "trouble". However Genesis Mining is not trustworthy for a number of reasons even if you ignore Streng being buddies with Garza. I'm sure referral spammers will try to disagree but GM is a good example of a service that's possibly-semi-legit but a ridiculously bad deal nonetheless.

Speaking of which, shouldn't it be 1+2+4+5+7 or at least 1+2+5+7.

Topic: ▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ Cloudmining 101 (ponzi risk assessment) ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁ - page 22. (Read 361551 times)