Topic: ▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ Cloudmining 101 (ponzi risk assessment) ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁ - page 92. (Read 361551 times)

From the looks of the list you're only showing SHA256 cloud mining companies. No "love" for the scrypt crowd? I heard zeusminer/zeushash stopped payouts for their contracts...  

EDIT: Looks like zeus does SHA256 too... Huh. Might want to check them out, they're pretty popular.

Thanks, cool list.

I dont know how cex.io is structured exactly, but AFAIK its at least partially owned by bitfury. Bitfury most certainly does posses a shitload of physical mining assets. And this is important, because you claim to rent your hashrate somewhere else. THat means;

1) you have no control over it
2) you add a layer of uncertainty on top of a third party provider that we arent even allowed to know and therefore can not judge.

Even if you're not lying, we can not know if you thought eg pbmining was a legitimate venture, and you could have bought hashrate there. Or you might be buying at GAWminers.

Moreover, we would have to know what kind of deal you have exactly. For instance, are you renting for 1 month? 1 year?  5 years ?

Just are essentially just saying 'trust me", and that is not going to cut it.


No your liabilities are not limited to $1000 if you perpetuate fraud.

As Ive said this a few times, its of course possible some honest companies are being labeled as ponzi by me now, just like its possible there some real Nigerian princes willing to do business with you. But considering the label is because of their lack of disclosure, Im completely fine with that, and certainly prefer it over attributing a legitimate label to a company that turns out to be a ponzi.

I do agree there is.

However:
-physical ownership is a kind of wrong argument. It excludes platforms using hosted services from another locations. CEX for example claims they host all over the world. You cannot say they physically own the hashrate. They just technically own the hashrate. So I believe there are many legit businesses hosting with third parties in some distant locations and they do not physically own the equipment as you put it.
-setting up a limited company solves this problem to the degree of the sum fixed in the funding contract (or extended further in the future if a company raises more capital). So technically I can set up an Ltd with $1,000 capital and my liabilities will be limited to this amount. Everything is correct according to law but to me it does not give the credibility.

I think it is a very valuable thread.

To sum up... I am responsible for kryptologika operations. We have been checked and challenged before and nobody was able to prove we are a scam. On the other hand we are reluctant to disclose the details of our hashrate, where we mine, and/or any relevant data that is required here. This is our company secret. Since we use physical silver we can only show you the pictures of the coins
I have offered Puppet an exclusive offer to provide him with undeniable proof we are mining and we posses the hashrate if he keeps it confidential.  He declined so the things have to remain as they are.

I'm learning a lot from you Puppet.

Even if you have a public mining address you would have to be mining with your own miners on a pool. What if you use a hosted service elsewhere and bitcoins are being distributed among other participants and then redistributed to the shareholders minus the costs of maintenance? You would need to know not only the number of users but also the amount of shares each of them has. It cannot be solved that easily as you think.

Thank you Mabsark, I did not see that Cheers :-)

One question why are some people on this forum rude. One chap on another thread said I am a newbie fake account. I did not understand why he said this to me. I grew up on trusting people until they do something wrong to you. I know a bit old fashioned and I get walked all over sometimes but some people on this site need better manners with posting to other people.

I guess a lot of people are cautious of new people on this site, to that I am starting to understand why since I have noticed a lot of trolls and fake people. Seriously some people on this site should hold back before being so forthcoming :-)

Thanks again for your help :-)

Ewwww nobody gets to touch my feet.

This has already been discussed a few times. Any company can go rogue, or there could be other reasons why its no longer able to fullfill its contracts (bankruptcy, fire, meteor impact, whatever). But what few companies do is provide adequate evidence that they:

- do physically own the hashrate they are selling
- can be held accountable if they no longer fulfill their contract

And there is a HUGE difference between companies that can do that, and one's that dont even try.

Think you might have me a it wrong. Mining address ? My website is www.solesolutions-reflexology.co.uk I meant my patients pay me Bitcoin to my Bitcoin address. Bottom of my website shows I accept Bitcoin. But I do it by mobile phone when I see my clients.

I want to know how to get out the cloud mining trap of being scammed as I have cloud mining revenue ready to re invest but looking at other options. But so much information on this site It does make me rather confused. I just wNted to know if there was a half reputable site for mining. I would like to start GPU on my Mac but information here is rather short in respect to that.

Look at the bottom of Puppet's list and you'll see the legit services:

Cex.io
KNCcloud
Cryptx PETAmine
AMhash
Hashnest(*after merge)

Yes, there is!
If you show your mining address anyone can calculate how many coins you mined and how many you paid out to your clients. As long as the coins keep moving from the mining address to their clients, while the money the clients paid for shares go to a separate address, everything is fine.

13sny all that being said you must be mining with a company somewhere. What would your advice be. Do I try and mine from home and use too much electricity and burn my Mac to a cinder. Is there any alternatives for me to invest my money in to? I'm new to this forum. Not to Bitcoin and I did used to mine with a friend from his house but the profit was bearly breaking even.

I'm happy to be advised but if you mine, who do you mine with ? Even if you post me to some threads on this site. There is a lot of information on this forum and really don't know where to start to be honest.

The problem is that you cannot tell the difference between ponzi and legit business. You can starrt a legit business, show your hashrate and have your miners and at some stage you stop re-buying hashing power from the suppliers and go fractional mining only. Thus you will be partially ponzi partially legit.
The only thing I like is that those fake ponzi schemes are collapsing now in front of our eyes because of flat difficulty. And since they are not able to get new customers to continue their operation they just go belly up as PBmining did.

There is no chance to positively verify a legit mining operation, that's the paradox.

Very interesting read and I have learned something from your post. To flip the coin the other way, you have shown what is a Ponzi scheme but could you not list companies in your eyes that is not a Ponzi scheme. I can't see any thread here on good mining companies as I would love to read. So if there is a link you or anyone can provide for me to help me invest my money wisely then please could you or others guide me in the right direction please ?

Why hashie gen1 is a scam ? Can you please explain?

exactly what I was thinking .. of course nobody would want, but remember what happened to Mt. Gox ..

I dont remember, and wonder if I messed up. I removed them from the list while Im reviewing this, thx for pointing out!

edit: Marco reminded me where I saw it, its on their homepage, testimonials from spondoolies en zeus.
Granted, they could easily be faked, so I asked for a confirmation from the other party, but I would expect we'd have heard from Guy by now if that was faked.

Other points are being discussed.

Question about Genesis-Mining. You gave them a 1+4+7, can you point out where a Bitcoin hardware vendor vouched for them to satisfy #2?
Their pricing seems more reasonable, but unless I'm misunderstanding it seems like they're offering a lifetime contract with all fees included for $0.77/GH/s. That raises all kinds of red flags regardless of having a couple pictures of hashing boxes.

this is a great guide to help people make the right decision when joining a mining contract. it also help highlight reputable companies.
thanks a lot