Coinbase is overstepping the bounds we should give it regarding Bitcoin XT - page 3.

DiamondCardz

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Quote from: HostFat on November 07, 2015, 11:55:55 PM

Quote from: Carlton Banks on November 07, 2015, 11:40:40 PM

Which part of "consensus-driven ledger" do you not understand?

I understand that this place is full of people in bad faith that love censorship, appeal to authority and can't talk without being in full of logic fallacies.

Oh come on. If you have that much of a problem with us who dislike what is happening with Coinbase and BIP101 and want to pump it so much then go off to a different forum because currently there is not consensus for BIP101. Face it. Coinbase is having too much of an influence.

This thread is not supposed to be a debate of BIP100 vs BIP101 vs BIP102 vs BIP103 vs BIP103++, or Core vs XT vs other alternatives. This thread is about protecting the decentralised nature of decision-making in Bitcoin as much as possible.

Edit: Something worth reading: http://swag.pw/2015/11/08/bitcoin-decentralisation-bip101-coinbase-and-hypocrisy/

jubalix

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I don't completely grok the whole argument blocksize arguments, however XT seem to be a bridge to far due to the steepness of the exponent. We likely need larger blocks, but not in the XT way. Its too much too soon. I *think* ~~BP100 seemed reasonable~~ if that quote below is true forget that. I have not run the maths on it though nor have the time to right now.

To my mind a slower increase or the ability to increase based on demand seems reasonable. However the latter may be spamable, the former what is the right rate is the killer question.

I *think* satoshi envisaged larger block in the first instance (was it 33mb?).

doublemore

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Do coinbase really have that much power? wouldn't an exchange like bitfinex or all the china ones combined have more power?

Stringer Bell

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Users "knight22" and "meono" , your shilling is obvious and pathetic. Anybody who thinks for themselves can see the truth.

It's sad you can't think of any other way to generate income for yourself but supporting those who are attempting to destroy something positive in this world. Do you not posses any other skills? Is this all you can offer this world? You can do better. What do you tell your family? Surely not that you spread lies for the highest bidder. What else do you spread for the highest bidder.

May you examine your conscience and way of life and think about what you're doing.

Stringer Bell

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I've withdrawn all remaining holdings at Coinbase, and won't be using their services again.

Lauda

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Terminated.

Quote from: ABCbits on November 08, 2015, 03:50:36 AM

There are many option other than BIP 101 such as BIP 100, 102 & 103.
I think BIP 100 & BIP 103 looks better than BIP 101,so why many companies want use BIP 101? Are they have hidden motives or there are flaws in BIP 100 & BIP 103?

BIP100 in addition to dynamically changing blocks. There's no need to give miners any power and thus the main arguments of the XT propaganda group fall down the drain. Well god knows what Hearn promised Coinbase. It is problematic because of many thing, one being this: Mike Hearn will be the benevolent dictator of XT. In other words, he will implement whatever bad companies need/want regardless of what the users think. So much freedom of choice. Roll Eyes

Quote from: Miracal on November 08, 2015, 02:36:26 AM

Forum is under constant DDOS attack, Theymos should do something about it like installing a cloudfare.

No, it is not; and cloudfare is bad. This is off-topic though.

ABCbits

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Crypto Swap Exchange

There are many option other than BIP 101 such as BIP 100, 102 & 103.
I think BIP 100 & BIP 103 looks better than BIP 101,so why many companies want use BIP 101? Are they have hidden motives or there are flaws in BIP 100 & BIP 103?

cjmoles

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Quote from: HostFat on November 08, 2015, 01:48:13 AM

Quote from: Miracal on November 08, 2015, 01:06:08 AM

I have a doubt, how does XT become a threat to Bitcoin, i would like to know?

Are they going to replace Bitcoin with XT and soon there will be no longer Bitcoin but BitcoinXT if that is the case it is ridiculous. We want Bitcoin the original predecessor to stay.

Yes, XT agents will come to your home and will force you to install an XT node Roll Eyes

Hah! Let them come! I have second amendment rights under the US Constitution and I have three trained Rottweilers. I'm not letting Coinbase or anybody else play with my nodes without my consent! Period! Bring it!

Seriously though....this whole argument is becoming very worrisome. The entire debate makes me wonder if the arguments will have consequences that are more detrimental to the project than any negative effects associated with the proposed changes.

HostFat

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I support freedom of choice

The name of the client was Bitcoin, than Bitcoin-Qt, and now Bitcoin Core.
Even if the client will have name Bitcoin XXX, the name doesn't matter.

Miracal

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Quote from: HostFat on November 08, 2015, 01:48:13 AM

Quote from: Miracal on November 08, 2015, 01:06:08 AM

I have a doubt, how does XT become a threat to Bitcoin, i would like to know?

Are they going to replace Bitcoin with XT and soon there will be no longer Bitcoin but BitcoinXT if that is the case it is ridiculous. We want Bitcoin the original predecessor to stay.

Yes, XT agents will come to your home and will force you to install an XT node Roll Eyes

You are right no one is forcing us to install XT node, whatever they do let them not change the name of Bitcoin. Forum is under constant DDOS attack, Theymos should do something about it like installing a cloudfare.

HostFat

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I support freedom of choice

Quote from: Miracal on November 08, 2015, 01:06:08 AM

I have a doubt, how does XT become a threat to Bitcoin, i would like to know?

Are they going to replace Bitcoin with XT and soon there will be no longer Bitcoin but BitcoinXT if that is the case it is ridiculous. We want Bitcoin the original predecessor to stay.

Yes, XT agents will come to your home and will force you to install an XT node Roll Eyes

Miracal

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Activity: 350

Merit: 250

I have a doubt, how does XT become a threat to Bitcoin, i would like to know?

Are they going to replace Bitcoin with XT and soon there will be no longer Bitcoin but BitcoinXT if that is the case it is ridiculous. We want Bitcoin the original predecessor to stay.

P.S: The name itself looks terrible BitcoinXT , what a joke.

HostFat

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I support freedom of choice

Quote from: Carlton Banks on November 07, 2015, 11:40:40 PM

Which part of "consensus-driven ledger" do you not understand?

I understand that this place is full of people in bad faith that love censorship, appeal to authority and can't talk without being in full of logic fallacies.

Carlton Banks

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Quote from: HostFat on November 07, 2015, 02:59:18 PM

There is only one thing that it seems that all Bitcoin users are forced to: use the Bitcoin Core client Roll Eyes

Which part of "consensus-driven ledger" do you not understand?

TheMage

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Litecoin Association Director

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on November 07, 2015, 10:32:28 PM

Quote from: TheMage on November 07, 2015, 09:25:00 PM

Quote from: CIYAM on November 07, 2015, 02:29:49 PM

Quote from: knight22 on November 07, 2015, 02:29:01 PM

Hashrate will follow where the money is. I am not worried about that.

You don't seem to understand - China is where the money is (am guessing you must be American as only Americans would make such stupid statements).

Whats with the Anti-American sentiment? I've seen this from a few people in this thread and honestly it's alarming that people are stooping down to this type of level.

Haters hate because they're jealous. EG, this Brit envious of his cousins that stood up for themselves and are no longer the property of a (the) Royal Family.

http://i.imgur.com/Wk5GtQO.jpg

This lady owns CIYAM and his wife just as an American owns their Buick and their dog.

My statement goes both ways Roll Eyes

iCEBREAKER

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Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

Quote from: TheMage on November 07, 2015, 09:25:00 PM

Quote from: CIYAM on November 07, 2015, 02:29:49 PM

Quote from: knight22 on November 07, 2015, 02:29:01 PM

Hashrate will follow where the money is. I am not worried about that.

You don't seem to understand - China is where the money is (am guessing you must be American as only Americans would make such stupid statements).

Whats with the Anti-American sentiment? I've seen this from a few people in this thread and honestly it's alarming that people are stooping down to this type of level.

Haters hate because they're jealous. EG, this Brit envious of his cousins that stood up for themselves and are no longer the property of a (the) Royal Family.

This lady owns CIYAM and his wife just as an American owns their Buick and their dog.

TheMage

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Activity: 812

Merit: 1000

Litecoin Association Director

Quote from: CIYAM on November 07, 2015, 02:29:49 PM

Quote from: knight22 on November 07, 2015, 02:29:01 PM

Hashrate will follow where the money is. I am not worried about that.

You don't seem to understand - China is where the money is (am guessing you must be American as only Americans would make such stupid statements).

Whats with the Anti-American sentiment? I've seen this from a few people in this thread and honestly it's alarming that people are stooping down to this type of level.

MbitSport

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Activity: 78

Merit: 10

Quote

A post was made on the Linux Foundation site using a Satoshi Nakamoto account. His original message here. The author is close to declaring bitcoin a "failed project". There was no signature key to verify the authors identity.

Quote

I have been following the recent block size debates through the mailing list. I had hoped the debate would resolve and that a fork proposal would achieve widespread consensus. However with the formal release of Bitcoin XT 0.11A, this looks unlikely to happen, and so I am forced to share my concerns about this very dangerous fork. The developers of this pretender-Bitcoin claim to be following my original vision, but nothing could be further from the truth. When I designed Bitcoin, I designed it in such a way as to make future modifications to the consensus rules difficult without near unanimous agreement. Bitcoin was designed to be protected from the influence of charismatic leaders, even if their name is Gavin Andresen, Barack Obama, or Satoshi Nakamoto. Nearly everyone has to agree on a change, and they have to do it without being forced or pressured into it. By doing a fork in this way, these developers are violating the "original vision" they claim to honour. They use my old writings to make claims about what Bitcoin was supposed to be. However I acknowledge that a lot has changed since that time, and new knowledge has been gained that contradicts some of my early opinions. For example I didn't anticipate pooled mining and its effects on the security of the network. Making Bitcoin a competitive monetary system while also preserving its security properties is not a trivial problem, and we should take more time to come up with a robust solution. I suspect we need a better incentive for users to run nodes instead of relying solely on altruism. If two developers can fork Bitcoin and succeed in redefining what "Bitcoin" is, in the face of widespread technical criticism and through the use of populist tactics, then I will have no choice but to declare Bitcoin a failed project. Bitcoin was meant to be both technically and socially robust. This present situation has been very disappointing to watch unfold.

Satoshi Nakamoto

http://www.debtcrash.report/entry/satoshi-nakamoto-comes-out-of-hiding-to-denounces-the-direction-of-bitcoin

I don t actually think at all that Satoshi himself wrote this but interesting none the less.

(oligopolies if its already been quoted a million & 1)

iCEBREAKER

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Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

Quote from: DiamondCardz on November 07, 2015, 12:45:44 PM

we're getting kind of fucked here if all of the large companies are going to start running code for Bitcoin XT and trying to move us all away from Bitcoin Core.

We're fine. Bitcoin was built to withstand such attacks by endowing its defenders with overwhelming advantages.

Let Coinbase and Circle try to bite our ankles. They will break their teeth.

danielW

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Activity: 277

Merit: 257

Quote from: knight22 on November 07, 2015, 12:43:39 PM

Quote from: DiamondCardz on November 07, 2015, 12:40:59 PM

Quote from: knight22 on November 07, 2015, 12:31:01 PM

They are not alone http://blog.blockchain.com/2015/08/24/industry-endorses-bigger-blocks-and-bip101/

BitPay is also a commerce processor, they are essentially equivalent to Coinbase. I don't even know why Blockchain is there and why they are relevant. Based on BitPay's signature being first I'd gamble they wrote the letter.

Quote from: Lauda on November 07, 2015, 12:34:08 PM

I have had it with Coinbase. They are already on my blacklist. If anyone from Coinbase is reading (and I'm sure you are), I will never use your service again and I shall forbid any close contact to do so either. Do you want to ruin your business? Because this is how it starts. Coinbase has lose all credibility from now on and whatever their CEO says should be disregarded.

I don't plan to use them anymore where I can avoid it. This is how you fuck up Bitcoin, by starting to get involved in major development issues as if you're a company lobbying the US government. We don't want that shit, that's centralisation.

Core is under centralized development. Decentralization = freedom of choice. Stop being such an hypocrite.

Nobody is really against alternative implementations. We dont agree with one specific implementation and how it attempts to change consensus. How is anybody being a hypocrite? We are allowed to believe that having XT being the reference client is bad for Bitcoin.

Nobody says you dont have a choice, and most importantly nobody can stop your choice. We are allowed to say its a bad choice.

Topic: Coinbase is overstepping the bounds we should give it regarding Bitcoin XT - page 3. (Read 6702 times)