Topic: coinjedi / betsofbitco.in SCAMMERS: Declares "Push" on obvious win for BFL bet - page 2. (Read 27982 times)
May 03, 2013, 03:57:27 AM
Also, I appreciate that you're trying to look at this objectively. But do not expect Luke to give straight answers to your questions.
I would be pleasantly surprised however if he just all of a sudden decided to stop being deceptive and just gave you honest answers.
May 03, 2013, 03:54:48 AM
Quote
• Before April 1st 2013, at least one BFL customer with a bitcointalk.org forum account established prior to the bet's opening date shall post detailed and credible photos of the device on the forum, including photos of it operating, and report its hashrate. This customer cannot be a BFL employee.
So my only remaining question at this point is, was LukeJr a customer of BFL ?Yes = outcome FALSE
No = outcome TRUE
Thank you Luke.
Now we are down to semantics, was the unit delivered to you LukeJr or did you pick it up ?
edit:
de·liv·er
/diˈlivər/
Verb
Bring and hand over (a letter, parcel, or ordered goods) to the proper recipient or address.
Formally hand over (someone).
Synonyms
hand over - rescue
Full disclosure my english sucks, but looking @ the literal definition of deliver luke could arrive at BFL hq and had the parcel given to him in person and it would still be considered delivered.
Im reviewing the bet statement again to see if there is anything else.
edit2:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shipping
Well now it gets even more difficult, since we are down to semantics "ship" or "shipping" implies a vessel would carry the item/package to its destination. So a person to person transfer would not be considered shipping.
Did the development board(ie not one of the products listed to be eligible for the bet) even leave the BFL offices? All the pictures show is the board hooked up to Josh(or BFL's) killawatt on a desk in the BFL office.
May 03, 2013, 01:27:25 AM
Quote
• Before April 1st 2013, at least one BFL customer with a bitcointalk.org forum account established prior to the bet's opening date shall post detailed and credible photos of the device on the forum, including photos of it operating, and report its hashrate. This customer cannot be a BFL employee.
So my only remaining question at this point is, was LukeJr a customer of BFL ?Yes = outcome FALSE
No = outcome TRUE
Thank you Luke.
Now we are down to semantics, was the unit delivered to you LukeJr or did you pick it up ?
edit:
de·liv·er
/diˈlivər/
Verb
Bring and hand over (a letter, parcel, or ordered goods) to the proper recipient or address.
Formally hand over (someone).
Synonyms
hand over - rescue
Full disclosure my english sucks, but looking @ the literal definition of deliver luke could arrive at BFL hq and had the parcel given to him in person and it would still be considered delivered.
Im reviewing the bet statement again to see if there is anything else.
edit2:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shipping
Well now it gets even more difficult, since we are down to semantics "ship" or "shipping" implies a vessel would carry the item/package to its destination. So a person to person transfer would not be considered shipping.
May 02, 2013, 03:30:18 PM
May 02, 2013, 02:04:37 PM
In other words, if you have a website, you're a captain of industry and caveat emptor, f*** you got mine, immune from prosecution, but if you're just a plebe that runs your business in a forum thread and can't afford your own website, then scammer tag for you. 
No..... Is this forum, their mods or theymos some kind of police or the authority of bitcoin? Are we in a sort of goverment contract with this forum?
Why should he give tags out like it's nothing?
Do you trust others with your money?
Why should a forum with the topic "money" give out scammer tag's towards people not affiliated with it?
Its easy:
Scam here, get a TAG!
Scam on your own website..... not the forums problem! (Just don't use their site)
PS:
If they changed their terms while the bet was still running that bet should be handled under the old therms! Or be revised towards the new therms only with knowledge and acceptance of all participants...
In other words, if you have a website, you're a captain of industry and caveat emptor, f*** you got mine, immune from prosecution...
In other words you think this is the UN, and this forum is a court all businesses shall be prosecuted in?
^this
May 02, 2013, 01:01:08 PM
So my only remaining question at this point is, was LukeJr a customer of BFL ?
But that's racist.
Also, BFL was a customer of Luke-jr, not the other way around (as in, Luke was being paid by BFL at the time, not the other way around). Not that this matters, their pic is both late and fake, and no delivery took place.
May 02, 2013, 07:51:01 AM
Quote
• Before April 1st 2013, at least one BFL customer with a bitcointalk.org forum account established prior to the bet's opening date shall post detailed and credible photos of the device on the forum, including photos of it operating, and report its hashrate. This customer cannot be a BFL employee.
So my only remaining question at this point is, was LukeJr a customer of BFL ?
Yes = outcome FALSE
No = outcome TRUE
Regarding the bet being hosted despite being open to interpretation - very very bad form on the part of betsofbitco.in - this makes them (in this instance at least) incompetent but not scammers.
Myself and a workmate both were eyeing off this bet but decided against it due to the wording being to vague.
If this kind of thing keeps happening I do not see a future for bitcoin wagering sites.
They didn't ship anything, therefore there is no need to parse that condition. And the development board shown in the picture does not qualify for the bet even if they had actually shipped him that.
You are the guy who does that awesome list. I was just thinking about that a couple of days ago and that someone should contact you to let you know what has happened.
May 02, 2013, 06:46:44 AM
Quote
• Before April 1st 2013, at least one BFL customer with a bitcointalk.org forum account established prior to the bet's opening date shall post detailed and credible photos of the device on the forum, including photos of it operating, and report its hashrate. This customer cannot be a BFL employee.
So my only remaining question at this point is, was LukeJr a customer of BFL ?Yes = outcome FALSE
No = outcome TRUE
May 02, 2013, 04:55:58 AM
In other words, if you have a website, you're a captain of industry and caveat emptor, f*** you got mine, immune from prosecution...
In other words you think this is the UN, and this forum is a court all businesses shall be prosecuted in?
May 02, 2013, 04:44:32 AM
Quote
• Before April 1st 2013, at least one BFL customer with a bitcointalk.org forum account established prior to the bet's opening date shall post detailed and credible photos of the device on the forum, including photos of it operating, and report its hashrate. This customer cannot be a BFL employee.
So my only remaining question at this point is, was LukeJr a customer of BFL ?
Yes = outcome FALSE
No = outcome TRUE
Regarding the bet being hosted despite being open to interpretation - very very bad form on the part of betsofbitco.in - this makes them (in this instance at least) incompetent but not scammers.
Myself and a workmate both were eyeing off this bet but decided against it due to the wording being to vague.
If this kind of thing keeps happening I do not see a future for bitcoin wagering sites.
May 02, 2013, 04:19:01 AM
In other words, if you have a website, you're a captain of industry and caveat emptor, f*** you got mine, immune from prosecution, but if you're just a plebe that runs your business in a forum thread and can't afford your own website, then scammer tag for you.
May 01, 2013, 11:48:07 PM
I submitted this video two weeks ago, but it was just approved today. Enjoy, albeit there's a slight error, but not that bad. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrvsQU_H4yk
May 01, 2013, 05:48:42 PM
Theymos' opinion is that scammers are just fine and don't get a tag as long as they don't do the scamming on the forums.
coinjedi's signature says:
Bets of Bitcoin
http://betsofbitco.in/
That means he's linking to his operation in every post.
How is that not "scamming on the forums"? He's using the forum to post links to a site which refuses to pay out rightful winners.
Pirate had a website which he linked to from the forums as well. Does that mean he wasn't scamming on the forums?
Nope it isn't. It may be a technicality but the bet was made on their own website with their own terms..... Everyone that took the bet, took the terms with them!
And they changed the goddamn terms. Jesus Christ, how simple does it have to get.
Still on their website, or did theymos or any other mod change the "terms of agreement" of this forum lately?
Correct me if I'm wrong but its still their decision (a poor one one sure!) and their "therm of agreement" on their website, not this forum.... These two are not connected!
Point me towards a link...?
Your choice, as mine, is clear: DO NOT USE THEIR SERVICE!
April 29, 2013, 07:07:32 PM
Theymos' opinion is that scammers are just fine and don't get a tag as long as they don't do the scamming on the forums.
coinjedi's signature says:
Bets of Bitcoin
http://betsofbitco.in/
That means he's linking to his operation in every post.
How is that not "scamming on the forums"? He's using the forum to post links to a site which refuses to pay out rightful winners.
Pirate had a website which he linked to from the forums as well. Does that mean he wasn't scamming on the forums?
Nope it isn't. It may be a technicality but the bet was made on their own website with their own terms..... Everyone that took the bet, took the terms with them!
And they changed the goddamn terms. Jesus Christ, how simple does it have to get.
April 29, 2013, 06:15:03 PM
Theymos' opinion is that scammers are just fine and don't get a tag as long as they don't do the scamming on the forums.
coinjedi's signature says:
Bets of Bitcoin
http://betsofbitco.in/
That means he's linking to his operation in every post.
How is that not "scamming on the forums"? He's using the forum to post links to a site which refuses to pay out rightful winners.
Pirate had a website which he linked to from the forums as well. Does that mean he wasn't scamming on the forums?
Nope it isn't. It may be a technicality but the bet was made on their own website with their own terms..... Everyone that took the bet, took the terms with them!
If coinjedi would have made a special thread assigned towards this bet here, then theymos (or the mods) would consider a "scammers tag" for him and them....
If i would put betsofbitcoin into my signature, would that mean I'm in any case affiliated with them?
I link to bitcoin.de with a referral link.... does that mean if they do something bad I'm partly responsible?
Calling this bet a draw was a poor idea... Evidence points to a clear WIN! BUt what can theymos or this forum do about this? Is the TAG now a solution for everything thats bat with bitcoin? Maybe we all deserve one one day
April 29, 2013, 04:53:43 PM
Theymos' opinion is that scammers are just fine and don't get a tag as long as they don't do the scamming on the forums.
Or if they pay advertising fees to do their scamming on the forums, like BFL.
April 29, 2013, 04:34:58 PM
Theymos' opinion is that scammers are just fine and don't get a tag as long as they don't do the scamming on the forums.
coinjedi's signature says:
Bets of Bitcoin
http://betsofbitco.in/
That means he's linking to his operation in every post.
How is that not "scamming on the forums"? He's using the forum to post links to a site which refuses to pay out rightful winners.
Pirate had a website which he linked to from the forums as well. Does that mean he wasn't scamming on the forums?
April 29, 2013, 04:15:27 PM
I'd like to see some sort of statement from Theymos. Even if it's just something like: "It's my forum and I'm not giving Luke or Inaba scammer tags period."
Theymos' opinion is that scammers are just fine and don't get a tag as long as they don't do the scamming on the forums.
April 29, 2013, 09:25:09 AM
On the other hand, everyone should be aware that BFL has a poor reputation at best and should expect this kind of bad behavior.
This should not excuse what they did.
I still would love to hear any argument from anyone as to why they should not be given scammer tags. No one has defended or even denied what they did.
I'd like to see some sort of statement from Theymos. Even if it's just something like: "It's my forum and I'm not giving Luke or Inaba scammer tags period."
April 28, 2013, 08:41:12 PM
Late to this party because I had no stake. Agree that the bet should have been "true", but no evidence exists that CoinJedi was not using his best judgement when he made this a draw.
Honest or not, it shows that his "best judgment" is not worth shit.
This means the site is unreliable. Maybe it will pay out when you make a bet. Maybe the site will just cheat you out of your winnings instead. You can't really be sure.
All a betting site has is its reputation. This site's reputation is, or should be, gone. I wouldn't bet a bitmill there at this point.
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