Topic: CoinLenders, Inputs.io, Tradefortress (HACK) - page 14. (Read 39680 times)
I wonder can depositor who made deposits posts hack (ie. Oct 26) legitimately make a fraud claim even assuming that it's a genuine theft / hack.
Coinlenders
davecoin:10.05859733:0:U
davecoin:10.05859733:0:U
I am reposting here from the other thread in the hopes that TF reads it.
Hi all,
My 2 cents, which is all the investment I have left after this debacle.
Dumbfruit, I don't think it is time yet for a suit. There may be some possibility still of us getting something back. TF has acted irresponsibly; even better communication would have gone a long way. But, he is still communicating and does seen to be intent on getting something back for his investors. Also, just as I thought, when things got tough, the people who he relied on suddenly got real quiet.
Given a bit more time, FT might be able to scrape something together to make us feel like we got something back. Put him on the wrong side of a lawsuit and there won't BE anything to get back. On the other hand, if we give him this chance and he renigs, I'll join a suit just for spite.
To TradeFortress. You promised a mass email. I think you made this promise when you thought you could get payment or promise of payments and make a plan of how and how much we would get reimbursed. I am happy you tried and continue to try.
I do think you should make better use of the community here to try to get payment from your non-responders. If they are renigging on you, they are bad businesses and informing the public is a service. You have partly done that today. Do it more. Let us be your partners in this. You also said that some of your debtors are having trouble because of the exchange rate. It is my entirely uninformed opinion that this run up is going to crash hard. Talk with them about making good after a crash. Tell them to just keep making payments as normal!
One thing to do also is see if there are people willing to cash out now for a steep haircut and those willing to let their BTC sit with you while you get the debtors to make good. If you could make a reasonable guarantee that in six months I could get, say 80% as opposed to 20% today, I might consider my options and feel well served. Not happy, mind you, but at least respected and not desparate, which is kind of the feeling I have right now.
I hope you also getting people to try to find the hackers. If you asked for help with this, you never know what might happen. Getting the coins back might be a different thing, but finding out who they are... Consider putting a bounty up.
You still have people here who would be patient and help you if you asked and if you were more forthcoming. You have yourself admitted that you messed up big, so if there are any more revelations, they shouldn't sting as bad.
I do also think that you must write the email you promised and not just a post here. This is important because you are making us come looking for you. Take the initiative and be in touch with us. Do include a sit-rep and do be realistic. We already know this sucks, so tell us how bad instead of making us guess. Do tell us when and how much we'll be able to get back. You don't really know, I know; but give a range going from poor to ok case scenario. If it turns out better, yay. But not getting hopes up is important too.
If you want help in pressuring creditors and in asking for help tracking down the bad guys, I would let you use my website, bitcoinwarrior.net, as a place to post calls to action and updates.
This loss has really hurt me. If is my fault for investing it and I take responsibility for making that decision. I am, however, interested in making back what I can. If I can help you in the process, well that ok too.
Edited for clarity and iphone fingers.
My 2 cents, which is all the investment I have left after this debacle.
Dumbfruit, I don't think it is time yet for a suit. There may be some possibility still of us getting something back. TF has acted irresponsibly; even better communication would have gone a long way. But, he is still communicating and does seen to be intent on getting something back for his investors. Also, just as I thought, when things got tough, the people who he relied on suddenly got real quiet.
Given a bit more time, FT might be able to scrape something together to make us feel like we got something back. Put him on the wrong side of a lawsuit and there won't BE anything to get back. On the other hand, if we give him this chance and he renigs, I'll join a suit just for spite.
To TradeFortress. You promised a mass email. I think you made this promise when you thought you could get payment or promise of payments and make a plan of how and how much we would get reimbursed. I am happy you tried and continue to try.
I do think you should make better use of the community here to try to get payment from your non-responders. If they are renigging on you, they are bad businesses and informing the public is a service. You have partly done that today. Do it more. Let us be your partners in this. You also said that some of your debtors are having trouble because of the exchange rate. It is my entirely uninformed opinion that this run up is going to crash hard. Talk with them about making good after a crash. Tell them to just keep making payments as normal!
One thing to do also is see if there are people willing to cash out now for a steep haircut and those willing to let their BTC sit with you while you get the debtors to make good. If you could make a reasonable guarantee that in six months I could get, say 80% as opposed to 20% today, I might consider my options and feel well served. Not happy, mind you, but at least respected and not desparate, which is kind of the feeling I have right now.
I hope you also getting people to try to find the hackers. If you asked for help with this, you never know what might happen. Getting the coins back might be a different thing, but finding out who they are... Consider putting a bounty up.
You still have people here who would be patient and help you if you asked and if you were more forthcoming. You have yourself admitted that you messed up big, so if there are any more revelations, they shouldn't sting as bad.
I do also think that you must write the email you promised and not just a post here. This is important because you are making us come looking for you. Take the initiative and be in touch with us. Do include a sit-rep and do be realistic. We already know this sucks, so tell us how bad instead of making us guess. Do tell us when and how much we'll be able to get back. You don't really know, I know; but give a range going from poor to ok case scenario. If it turns out better, yay. But not getting hopes up is important too.
If you want help in pressuring creditors and in asking for help tracking down the bad guys, I would let you use my website, bitcoinwarrior.net, as a place to post calls to action and updates.
This loss has really hurt me. If is my fault for investing it and I take responsibility for making that decision. I am, however, interested in making back what I can. If I can help you in the process, well that ok too.
Edited for clarity and iphone fingers.
This thread might be relevant/interesting:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/free-btc-faucet-selling-adspace-334391
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/free-btc-faucet-selling-adspace-334391
Where are you getting the 6000 BTC amount from? Link please.
That is how much btc has been reported to me that was deposited into CoinLenders.
Hello everyone.
In light of TradeFortress' abysmally inadequate update, I am planning to begin legal proceedings against him.
I am an American, so if you are also American CoinLenders depositor and want to join me in a Class Action lawsuit against TradeFortress please email me here;
[email protected]
Legal fees will be distributed over all who join the lawsuit. If you didn't have 10btc or more than it probably wont be worth the cost to join us, but it depends on how many people want to join.
After speaking with a lawyer two things are clear;
1.) It's going to be expensive.
2.) Most lawyers don't know anything about btc.
If you know of an honest lawyer that has some relevant experience in foreign exchange lawsuits, or some other relevant area, please let me know.
I will make sure Australian authorities have been notified of the theft.
@The Crybabies
If I deleted your post it wasn't because I necessarily disagreed, it was because it didn't add anything to the conversation. If you don't like it, go to the mountain of other threads that are inundated with useless information.
In light of TradeFortress' abysmally inadequate update, I am planning to begin legal proceedings against him.
I am an American, so if you are also American CoinLenders depositor and want to join me in a Class Action lawsuit against TradeFortress please email me here;
[email protected]
Legal fees will be distributed over all who join the lawsuit. If you didn't have 10btc or more than it probably wont be worth the cost to join us, but it depends on how many people want to join.
After speaking with a lawyer two things are clear;
1.) It's going to be expensive.
2.) Most lawyers don't know anything about btc.
If you know of an honest lawyer that has some relevant experience in foreign exchange lawsuits, or some other relevant area, please let me know.
I will make sure Australian authorities have been notified of the theft.
@The Crybabies
If I deleted your post it wasn't because I necessarily disagreed, it was because it didn't add anything to the conversation. If you don't like it, go to the mountain of other threads that are inundated with useless information.
This is getting from bad to worse. So CL had 6000+ BTC loaned out ? Really ??
TF, it would be a very good idea to publish a balance sheet, we're getting a bit nervous around here.
TF, it would be a very good idea to publish a balance sheet, we're getting a bit nervous around here.
Where are you getting the 6000 BTC amount from? Link please.
This is getting from bad to worse. So CL had 6000+ BTC loaned out ? Really ??
TF, it would be a very good idea to publish a balance sheet, we're getting a bit nervous around here.
TF, it would be a very good idea to publish a balance sheet, we're getting a bit nervous around here.
100% of CL liquid funds were in a hot wallet. - No words.
dza:0.63:0:U
Update
The situation is I'm facing extreme difficulties in getting most borrowers to honor their obligations - the BTC rally doesn't help. To name a few that have been impossible to reach (when talking about their debt):
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/jordanl-70557
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/graet-17548
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/ascension-70541
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/ukyo-35121
(Borrowers can deposit to CL via BTC address).
Many security issuers like CreativeX have gone missing, but thankfully in the past days Deprived and arij came back, and Crypto-Trade divs have been successfully paid on their own exchange. ASICMINER isn't doing well which is the collateral for many (defaulted) loans.
The reason why there's no email update is that I'm primarily waiting for other people that are not responsive, which results in having to pass on the non-responsiveness. All of CL's liquid coins were stored on Inputs and what's remaining are debts and assets that took a significant wipe (we still have borrowers that are communicative, thank you!, but the BTC rally is definitely hurting them and us, especially modification proposals).
The situation is I'm facing extreme difficulties in getting most borrowers to honor their obligations - the BTC rally doesn't help. To name a few that have been impossible to reach (when talking about their debt):
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/jordanl-70557
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/graet-17548
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/ascension-70541
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/ukyo-35121
(Borrowers can deposit to CL via BTC address).
Many security issuers like CreativeX have gone missing, but thankfully in the past days Deprived and arij came back, and Crypto-Trade divs have been successfully paid on their own exchange. ASICMINER isn't doing well which is the collateral for many (defaulted) loans.
The reason why there's no email update is that I'm primarily waiting for other people that are not responsive, which results in having to pass on the non-responsiveness. All of CL's liquid coins were stored on Inputs and what's remaining are debts and assets that took a significant wipe (we still have borrowers that are communicative, thank you!, but the BTC rally is definitely hurting them and us, especially modification proposals).
The names of unresponsive borrowers are BlackLilac, Graet, Ascension, Ukyo.
An open message to TradeFortress,
I am sure that these last few weeks have been hell for you. You built up Inputs and CoinLenders and had hopes and dreams for them. It must be heart breaking to see what has happened to them
I appreciate that you have at least occasionally commenting and letting us know that you haven't walked away. Also, even with the sliding scale, it was good to see you trying to make good on those debts.
I am also sure that you have had more trouble than you anticipated getting cooperation from your debtors. I am sure that you have scrambling to get things in order so you would have something concrete to tell us.
I think it likely that not everything is settled yet. Things often take longer than we plan.
I would ask you, though, to not let today end without getting some type of status update out with a comment about what we can reasonably expect to happen.
It is clear from these boards that you have friends here who would be willing to give you leeway to get things together as long as you are honest and forthcoming. I am one of those who wishes you would say that you are going to reactivate CoinLenders, even with a moratorium on withdrawals, as long as we knew that our investment was safe. I don't think this is likely, but I wish it were possible.
A lot of people are anxiously waiting for this update. For some of us, what you do will impact our futures. Even if all the details aren't worked out, please do let us know what the situation is. Most of us will be willing to work with any reasonable plan.
If you do this well, I would be happy to use your next business too. I hope you take advantage of the opportunity here.
I am sure that these last few weeks have been hell for you. You built up Inputs and CoinLenders and had hopes and dreams for them. It must be heart breaking to see what has happened to them
I appreciate that you have at least occasionally commenting and letting us know that you haven't walked away. Also, even with the sliding scale, it was good to see you trying to make good on those debts.
I am also sure that you have had more trouble than you anticipated getting cooperation from your debtors. I am sure that you have scrambling to get things in order so you would have something concrete to tell us.
I think it likely that not everything is settled yet. Things often take longer than we plan.
I would ask you, though, to not let today end without getting some type of status update out with a comment about what we can reasonably expect to happen.
It is clear from these boards that you have friends here who would be willing to give you leeway to get things together as long as you are honest and forthcoming. I am one of those who wishes you would say that you are going to reactivate CoinLenders, even with a moratorium on withdrawals, as long as we knew that our investment was safe. I don't think this is likely, but I wish it were possible.
A lot of people are anxiously waiting for this update. For some of us, what you do will impact our futures. Even if all the details aren't worked out, please do let us know what the situation is. Most of us will be willing to work with any reasonable plan.
If you do this well, I would be happy to use your next business too. I hope you take advantage of the opportunity here.
All CL users with a balance (in the form of CDs, balances, withdrawals, to Inputs that weren't credited) will receive an email update within a week.
Some of us have expressed hope and some of us frustration with the delay in TF's communication about the status of our deposits. He took it upon himself to freeze our accounts and announce a one week "information blackout" which for some reason he has chosen to drag out to the bitter end. We should make it clear that whatever remaining hope or good will we as a community have for TF will end if he fails to update us within the time frame he announced and that each of us will file a report with his local police department within 24 hours. A victim does not hide and refuse to speak to fellow victims, only a criminal does that.
NSW Police Force, Australia, Local Area Command 02 9476 9799
https://www.facebook.com/KuringGaiLAC
Quote from: TomJeff on November 13, 2013, 04:55:54 AM
I can tell you personally that if I got 100% of my BTC refunded (or at least a binding promise to refund 100% of my principal in a year while still earning interest on it) and CL overhauled their security (a third-party security audit would go the distance to prove that fact to me) then I'd happily keep all my current deposit
+1
I told TF exactly this in an email several days ago (I have not heard back). It might be useful to start a list of CL creditors who feel the same way (Dumbfruit, if you'd rather it not clutter up this thread I can start a new one). First, it seems clear that no one should be forced to take a loss: each and every creditor should have the option of keeping their coins in CL for a time and being paid back in full (with interest of course) at some later date. Second, however, if enough CL creditors feel this way (particularly some of the large holders; I think the top ten largest creditors account for some 70% of the total on CL; and TomJeff obviously accounts for most of the coins on Inputs), then there should be no grounds for TF to refuse the offer. And every reason for him to accept, if his business model is any good. Of course, added security -and transparency- is crucial. But my guess is that a lot of CL creditors feel the same way. It would be good to know...
Goodtimes, exactly. It's a plan I'd seriously entertain. That's alot of coins right there. Count me in, and if Dumbfruit is cool with it, please start a thread. Maybe TF will give us the courtesy of a reply--soon.
Crazyhorse, yep. Whats the count TF?
TomJeff
Thank you.
Quote from: TomJeff on November 13, 2013, 04:55:54 AM
I can tell you personally that if I got 100% of my BTC refunded (or at least a binding promise to refund 100% of my principal in a year while still earning interest on it) and CL overhauled their security (a third-party security audit would go the distance to prove that fact to me) then I'd happily keep all my current deposit
+1
I told TF exactly this in an email several days ago (I have not heard back). It might be useful to start a list of CL creditors who feel the same way (Dumbfruit, if you'd rather it not clutter up this thread I can start a new one). First, it seems clear that no one should be forced to take a loss: each and every creditor should have the option of keeping their coins in CL for a time and being paid back in full (with interest of course) at some later date. Second, however, if enough CL creditors feel this way (particularly some of the large holders; I think the top ten largest creditors account for some 70% of the total on CL; and TomJeff obviously accounts for most of the coins on Inputs), then there should be no grounds for TF to refuse the offer. And every reason for him to accept, if his business model is any good. Of course, added security -and transparency- is crucial. But my guess is that a lot of CL creditors feel the same way. It would be good to know...
I don't have any problem with criticisms of TradeFortress if you actually present facts.
Edit: Better yet, I'll quote it for an example of exactly the kind of meaningless accusations that I would prefer people didn't post here;
It is likely that this self-moderated thread is set up by a
sock-puppet of 'TradeFortress' himself, and many of the
other newbie users who expouse the genius of TF are also most
likely sock-puppets.
The OP deletes posts which call into question TF and only
retains those where one of the sock-puppets express awe at his
greatness.
Don't be an idiot people. This kind of crap is common on
bitcointalk.org. We've seen it and many other ploys over the
years.
Never trust a self-moderated thread. They are almost always
scams.
Ya... I'm TradeFortress, and I faked the moon landing as well.
Edit: Better yet, I'll quote it for an example of exactly the kind of meaningless accusations that I would prefer people didn't post here;
It is likely that this self-moderated thread is set up by a
sock-puppet of 'TradeFortress' himself, and many of the
other newbie users who expouse the genius of TF are also most
likely sock-puppets.
The OP deletes posts which call into question TF and only
retains those where one of the sock-puppets express awe at his
greatness.
Don't be an idiot people. This kind of crap is common on
bitcointalk.org. We've seen it and many other ploys over the
years.
Never trust a self-moderated thread. They are almost always
scams.
Ya... I'm TradeFortress, and I faked the moon landing as well.
We need a well-respected 3rd-party to audit TF and all his businesses. Until that is set up, we should have some serious transparency, starting with:
And (where possible) proof should be shown. This could be scans of bank statements or links to BTC addresses (with signed messages proving TF owns them).
- Total amount in inputs.io before the hack
- Total amount refunded so far for inputs.io
- Total still owed to inputs.io users
- Total amount still lent out by coinlenders
- Total amount refunded so far for coinlenders
- Total still owed to coinlenders users
- Total BTC that TF has right now
- Total value of TF's non-BTC assets (house, car, bank accounts, etc.
And (where possible) proof should be shown. This could be scans of bank statements or links to BTC addresses (with signed messages proving TF owns them).
Coinlenders
asanerworld: 1.09027010:0 U
asanerworld: 1.09027010:0 U
I thought it said "remove", not "move". Not getting enough sleep, I swear...
Could you move my entry from the Inputs.io list to the coinlenders list ? When i pm'ed you, you just made it anonymous instead.
Coinlenders - Zedeius:1.05606876:0:U
Coinlenders - Zedeius:1.05606876:0:U
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