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Topic: CoinMarketCap.com - Market Cap Rankings of All Cryptocurrencies! - page 49. (Read 639542 times)

full member
Activity: 124
Merit: 100
Coinmarketcap should at least add a new filter option for Instamined currencies like Dash. The definition of a instamine would be where the coin's actual core parameters were changed after launch to benefit early miners.

+1

That's the only logical solution.
donator
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1060
GetMonero.org / MyMonero.com
-I refused to read the answer to that question, so I have to keep asking to make it look like I'm right and fluffypony is wrong-

By means of a direct comparison, where Dash's average block reward for the first 4500 blocks was 443 Dash, and 33.5 Dash on average thereafter, let's look at Monero's.

For the first 4500 blocks (like an hour and a bit) the block reward was 17.5 XMR. The average block reward for the 12+ months thereafter is 13.7 XMR.

Do you see the dichotomy?

Wait, are you saying XMR was mined 4500 blocks in the first hour? 4500 * 17.5 = 78,750 XMR, which is worth of 78 BTC using the first weeks' OTC price.

Or did I get some of the numbers wrong.

Could someone please verify/invalidate the numbers above?

Invalid

Coin launch and the first few blocks were 2014-04-18 10:49:53:

http://moneroblocks.eu/search/1

Block 4500 was three days later 2014-04-21 09:36:22:

http://moneroblocks.eu/search/4500

Thanks for the correction. I think the expression "like an hour and a bit" threw me off, could be a language barrier I'm not native English speaker.  Huh

Not you, it's me - I don't know what I meant to put in brackets, but "an hour and a bit" wasn't what I meant:)

In any case it's nonsensical of me to compare block to block, as we have different block times. A better comparison is on the first 48 hours of launch.

The first 5 056 blocks of Dash bring us to the 48 hour mark. This means the average block time for that period was just over 34 seconds, vs. the 2.5 minutes it is today. At the end of the first two days 2 020 652 Dash had been mined. That's 38% of the total Dash in existence today, and 9.18% of all Dash that will ever exist.

The equivalent for Monero is the first 3 037 blocks, which brings us to the 48 hour mark. This means the average block time for that period was just 56.9 seconds, vs. the 60 seconds it is today. At the end of the first two days 53 350 Monero had been mined. That's 0.72% of the total Monero in existence today. As we have infinite tail emission it the actual % it represents tends towards zero, but if we want to take the initial 18 446 744 XMR as a base value (because minimum block reward takes 7.5 years to kick in) then it represents 0.29% of that initial emission.
member
Activity: 490
Merit: 14
Coinmarketcap should at least add a new filter option for Instamined currencies like Dash. The definition of a instamine would be where the coin's actual core parameters were changed after launch to benefit early miners.

Similar to a premine except that it occured slightly after launch. Leaving a coin like Dash with other regular coins that never had such fraudelent or incompetant instamines is wholly unfair.

Crosspost:https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=560138.new#new
legendary
Activity: 1750
Merit: 1036
Facts are more efficient than fud
How do you measure human interest mathematically? Instamines can be shown pretty easily. Now if your inferring (incorrectly) that all humans are motivated by greed, I suggest you study differing personalities. Here's a good start: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jungian_cognitive_functions

I suggest you study common sense. Obviously people exist who don't care about or even hate money, it's just more likely that when people have also the financial incentive they are more motivated to see the project succeed. Or are you denying that?

Investors like probabilities btw.

My guess is that there are more idealist and rationals in the top-end of this field (at least as far as devs are concerned) than there are guardians and artisans, so your assumption defies common sense when taking this into account and the fact that most theoretical thinkers are motivated by other things than cash. Your assumption would hold true in many fields, but when it comes to the crossroads of mathematics, cryptography and computer science i think most will agree that it is especially top heavy with rationals and idealist. Of course I'm sure scams are heavy with opportunistic artisans, but I hardly think they count when we are discussing serious projects, because isn't that exactly the behavior we are trying to mitigate by having correct and honest labels for coins listed on CCM?

And again, where is your argument that dash wasn't instamined and that somehow an instamine doesn't have the same negative impact as a premine? These questions would seem more on topic.
hero member
Activity: 966
Merit: 1003
How do you measure human interest mathematically? Instamines can be shown pretty easily. Now if your inferring (incorrectly) that all humans are motivated by greed, I suggest you study differing personalities. Here's a good start: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jungian_cognitive_functions

I suggest you study common sense. Obviously people exist who don't care about or even hate money, it's just more likely that when people have also the financial incentive they are more motivated to see the project succeed. Or are you denying that?

Investors like probabilities btw.
legendary
Activity: 1750
Merit: 1036
Facts are more efficient than fud
Do you list premines as a service to potential investors so as they don't make investment decisions based on zero-knowledge of an unfair coin launch? And isn't an instamine a similarly unfair launch as it has the same effect of giving devs (and friends of devs) too much centralization/power over the project? Isn't this worth noting?

This doesn't even take into account coins that were fairly launched having to share the stage with those that didn't--this is very reminiscent of the steroid scandal in baseball, where players who weren't taking performance enhancing drugs had their accomplishments overshadowed (and sometimes tainted)  by those that were cheating.

I think coinmarketcap should warn potential investors about coins that have devs with little coins and hence little financial interest in developing the project.

How do you measure human interest mathematically? Instamines can be shown pretty easily. Now if your inferring (incorrectly) that all humans are motivated by greed, I suggest you study differing personalities. Here's a good start: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jungian_cognitive_functions

Also, satiated individuals work less often times, so there really isn't a correlation between wealth achieved and future wealth created--it may even work inversely in some cases, so there's that.

Sorry we all don't fit your cynical world view, but what can you do about it except project your own greed and try to normalize the asocial behavior of your associates--


Where is your argument that I'm incorrect? I'm motivated by being right, so if you're trying to get at me, you might want to try harder at being correct. Have you refuted that dash is an instamine? Have you made a case that an instamine is much different in effect than a premine?
hero member
Activity: 966
Merit: 1003
-I refused to read the answer to that question, so I have to keep asking to make it look like I'm right and fluffypony is wrong-

By means of a direct comparison, where Dash's average block reward for the first 4500 blocks was 443 Dash, and 33.5 Dash on average thereafter, let's look at Monero's.

For the first 4500 blocks (like an hour and a bit) the block reward was 17.5 XMR. The average block reward for the 12+ months thereafter is 13.7 XMR.

Do you see the dichotomy?

Wait, are you saying XMR was mined 4500 blocks in the first hour? 4500 * 17.5 = 78,750 XMR, which is worth of 78 BTC using the first weeks' OTC price.

Or did I get some of the numbers wrong.

Could someone please verify/invalidate the numbers above?

Invalid

Coin launch and the first few blocks were 2014-04-18 10:49:53:

http://moneroblocks.eu/search/1

Block 4500 was three days later 2014-04-21 09:36:22:

http://moneroblocks.eu/search/4500

Thanks for the correction. I think the expression "like an hour and a bit" threw me off, could be a language barrier I'm not native English speaker.  Huh
hero member
Activity: 966
Merit: 1003
Do you list premines as a service to potential investors so as they don't make investment decisions based on zero-knowledge of an unfair coin launch? And isn't an instamine a similarly unfair launch as it has the same effect of giving devs (and friends of devs) too much centralization/power over the project? Isn't this worth noting?

This doesn't even take into account coins that were fairly launched having to share the stage with those that didn't--this is very reminiscent of the steroid scandal in baseball, where players who weren't taking performance enhancing drugs had their accomplishments overshadowed (and sometimes tainted)  by those that were cheating.

I think coinmarketcap should warn potential investors about coins that have devs with little coins and hence little financial interest in developing the project.
legendary
Activity: 1750
Merit: 1036
Facts are more efficient than fud
Do you list premines as a service to potential investors so as they don't make investment decisions based on zero-knowledge of an unfair coin launch? And isn't an instamine a similarly unfair launch as it has the same effect of giving devs (and friends of devs) too much centralization/power over the project? Isn't this worth noting?

This doesn't even take into account coins that were fairly launched having to share the stage with those that didn't--this is very reminiscent of the steroid scandal in baseball, where players who weren't taking performance enhancing drugs had their accomplishments overshadowed (and sometimes tainted)  by those that were cheating.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
If the premine category is strictly 'before launch'. Then adding a new filter list category such as "Significantly FastMined" or "Instamine" would be far better suited.

This is one of the reasons why many newcommers may lose money when first getting into crypto from all the scams and etc. Clearly seperating the coins that have had their core parameters messed with after launch to give an unfair advantage to very early miners, from the coins that stayed true to Satoshi's word and never touched the core parameters should be necessary.

I don't really see a difference between a large number of coins mined one hour before launch and one hour after launch. It's ultimately, for people researching the coin the same thing: highly front loaded distribution.

So I think if you are going to note premines you should note instamines. It does't really matter whether they are marked the same way or a different way. It makes no sense to mark one but not the other.
member
Activity: 490
Merit: 14
If the premine category is strictly 'before launch'. Then adding a new filter list category such as "Significantly FastMined" or "Instamine" would be far better suited.

This is one of the reasons why many newcommers may lose money when first getting into crypto from all the scams and etc. Clearly seperating the coins that have had their core parameters messed with after launch to give an unfair advantage to very early miners, from the coins that stayed true to Satoshi's word and never touched the core parameters should be necessary.
member
Activity: 490
Merit: 14
I don't understand Dash/Darkcoin trolls harping on Monero... Monero has never had it's core features changed, period.

Dash has had all of it's core features changed multiple times.

They cannot be compared. Dash had a 2million coin instamine, Monero did not.

If Monero never had its core features changed, then its still got scam code in there.

Thanks for that clarification.

The scam code was there (now you are saying still is there, which I kind of doubt, but who knows) to give more coins to the people who put the scam code there or to those few who knew it was there and kept quiet about it.

Scam code is a scam. Period.

Why do you Dash trolls resort to false statements?

The only "scamcode" was the unoptimized miner by the Thankful-for-today character and that has nothing to do with the currencies code.. and even that is neglibable as Bitcoin and practically every other currency also had 'unoptimized miners' when users with the skill created their own optimized versions of the public miners. If you don't know what you're talking about, don't type.

Dash had both it's coin supply and block reward tampered with by Evan Duffield after the 2million coin instamine where he manually changed the block reward from 500 to less than 100 and changed the coin supply from 80million to 22million. Therefore, Dash technically had a premine. No such thing happened in Monero, therefore even having Monero in this 'conversation' is irrelevant as the two coins are on opposite ends of the spectrum.

legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
-I refused to read the answer to that question, so I have to keep asking to make it look like I'm right and fluffypony is wrong-

By means of a direct comparison, where Dash's average block reward for the first 4500 blocks was 443 Dash, and 33.5 Dash on average thereafter, let's look at Monero's.

For the first 4500 blocks (like an hour and a bit) the block reward was 17.5 XMR. The average block reward for the 12+ months thereafter is 13.7 XMR.

Do you see the dichotomy?

Wait, are you saying XMR was mined 4500 blocks in the first hour? 4500 * 17.5 = 78,750 XMR, which is worth of 78 BTC using the first weeks' OTC price.

Or did I get some of the numbers wrong.

Could someone please verify/invalidate the numbers above?

Invalid

Coin launch and the first few blocks were 2014-04-18 10:49:53:

http://moneroblocks.eu/search/1

Block 4500 was three days later 2014-04-21 09:36:22:

http://moneroblocks.eu/search/4500
full member
Activity: 231
Merit: 100
BlockaFett et. al., you should probably inform your employer that the style you are employing are over-all hurtful towards your cause. It's largely unbefitting and most outsiders can see through it.

You're a Monero investor ...I would say the opposite, Monero core team came here and accused Dash of a "premine" and petitioned CMC to show that which they did.  I dispute that any Darkcoins where premined so I just asked the both Monero core devs for their evidence of premine, which I didn't get.  So maybe it's Monero who is attacking here (and being hurtful to their cause). I haven't asked CMC to do anything negative with Monero.  Just for Monero to justify why Dash, as of today, is a premine, as they claim.

And I used to be interested in DRK, so there is that.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
And the denying of it has is importance too:

There was nothing wrong with the history of Monero. It's one of if not the cleanest coins and launches in history.

Yes let's look at the context of that shall we rather than taking one sentence out of context:

The miner crap you keep bringing up didn't matter at all. Everyone who wanted to mine could not only mine on their own computers easily enough but could pay for cloud mining and still mine at a profit. You could mine as much as you wanted and get as many coins as you wanted. The only real difference was that the people with the optimized miners had lower costs so their profit was higher (they still paid a lot though). There was effectively zero instamine (better than even most other honestly-launched coins with slowly difficulty adjustment). Access to coins or mining was not limited in any way whatsoever.

I did not deny the deliberately de-optimized miner that was put in the code before the community took over. I said it did not prevent anyone from mining as many coins as they wanted, according to the original mining schedule, before, during, and after the period that the de-optimized code existed. It was fixed starting 19 days after launch to 29 days after launch, which means the maximum plausible advantage gained from it by the original scammer (who was thrown out for other reasons) was very small, I estimate at 1% of the coins or less. And we don't even know, by the way, a) that the original developer of bitmonero even knew about it (he just forked for the whole thing from from Bytecoin with very few changes) and b) that he or anyone else involved with the deliberate de-optimization even mined any coins at all at a cost advantage (others optimizing later doesn't count as a scam, it counts as being brilliant programmers who optimize which is something miners normally do)

If that's the best you can come up with in terms of Monero mining issues then I was correct after all. It was and is one of the cleanest coin launches ever. Certainly miles ahead of the huge Dash instamine and massive retroactive supply cut.
hero member
Activity: 966
Merit: 1003
-I refused to read the answer to that question, so I have to keep asking to make it look like I'm right and fluffypony is wrong-

By means of a direct comparison, where Dash's average block reward for the first 4500 blocks was 443 Dash, and 33.5 Dash on average thereafter, let's look at Monero's.

For the first 4500 blocks (like an hour and a bit) the block reward was 17.5 XMR. The average block reward for the 12+ months thereafter is 13.7 XMR.

Do you see the dichotomy?

Wait, are you saying XMR was mined 4500 blocks in the first hour? 4500 * 17.5 = 78,750 XMR, which is worth of 78 BTC using the first weeks' OTC price.

Or did I get some of the numbers wrong.

Could someone please verify/invalidate the numbers above?
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
Given the debate here, it's probably best to take the significantly premined mark off of Dash until we can figure out a more appropriate solution.  I agree that instamine is not the same as premine.

I see a few options here:
1) Change label to "Significantly mined around launch" or something among those lines
2) Make an instamine label
3) Not care about tracking instamine

I'm preferring #3 because "instamine" is not a well defined term and can be applied subjectively.

How hard is it to define some objective criteria? (For example, ">X% mined ahead of the published schedule"). You already have a concept of significantly premined. What does that mean? Is there some degree of premine that would not count?

legendary
Activity: 1750
Merit: 1036
Facts are more efficient than fud
I don't understand Dash/Darkcoin trolls harping on Monero... Monero has never had it's core features changed, period.

Dash has had all of it's core features changed multiple times.

They cannot be compared. Dash had a 2million coin instamine, Monero did not.

If Monero never had its core features changed, then its still got scam code in there.

Thanks for that clarification.

The scam code was there (now you are saying still is there, which I kind of doubt, but who knows) to give more coins to the people who put the scam code there or to those few who knew it was there and kept quiet about it.

Scam code is a scam. Period.

You're just rambling without any facts to support your argument.

Fact 1. x/dark/dash had over 500k in coins mined in the first hour.

Fact 2. x/dark/dash had over 1.5 million coins mined in the first day.

Until you provide evidence that these facts aren't true, dash should be listed as an instamine; if over 500k in the first hour isn't an instamine, what is?

Crying, "But he did too!" by comparing an instamine to enhanced miners is like comparing organic apples to genetically mutated oranges shaped in the likeness of Rossie O'donnell--it's an insult to the intelligence of everyone reading this thread.  

Until this goes away https://i.imgur.com/dSe9cRz.jpg , no future investor should be duped into a false sense of propriety by misleading listings that do not include major activities that would be deemed as fraudulent by an objective observer.
legendary
Activity: 2548
Merit: 1245
Given the debate here, it's probably best to take the significantly premined mark off of Dash until we can figure out a more appropriate solution.  I agree that instamine is not the same as premine.

I see a few options here:
1) Change label to "Significantly mined around launch" or something among those lines
2) Make an instamine label
3) Not care about tracking instamine

I'm preferring #3 because "instamine" is not a well defined term and can be applied subjectively.

thanks for your post and for taking the premined mark off of Dash. I agree #3 is preferrable and hope
you will stick to it so some rest can settle back on this thread and we can all move on.



legendary
Activity: 1288
Merit: 1000
I don't understand Dash/Darkcoin trolls harping on Monero... Monero has never had it's core features changed, period.

Dash has had all of it's core features changed multiple times.

They cannot be compared. Dash had a 2million coin instamine, Monero did not.

If Monero never had its core features changed, then its still got scam code in there.

Thanks for that clarification.

The scam code was there (now you are saying still is there, which I kind of doubt, but who knows) to give more coins to the people who put the scam code there or to those few who knew it was there and kept quiet about it.

Scam code is a scam. Period.

And the INTENTIONAL fact of this is very important too.

And the denying of it has is importance too:

There was nothing wrong with the history of Monero. It's one of if not the cleanest coins and launches in history.

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