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Topic: Collapse of crude oil prices - page 7. (Read 1608 times)

legendary
Activity: 3178
Merit: 1140
#SWGT CERTIK Audited
April 20, 2020, 11:38:51 AM
#10
Let's talk about the oil industry.

Oil prices are doomed. Saudis and Russians are using this economic crisis to kill USA shale oil producers. They will succeed at its plan.
USA is the last thing to think about for both countries.
Many countries aren't satisfied with the oil prices for years. Those countries are counting mainly for the oil price for their economy since it represents more than 90% of its exportations. I am talking about Venezuela, Algeria, Iran, Gulf countries mainly and Russia too is affected. The economy of these countries is slowing down at an incredible rate, many projects are delayed and some of it is seeking financial help from many ways (Aramco for example)...
This oil price war isn't helping these countries except Saudi Arabia which can get some profits by rising its production which no one else can do.
Now back to USA shale oil industry, it is just a collateral damage imo.
legendary
Activity: 3332
Merit: 6809
Cashback 15%
April 20, 2020, 10:58:29 AM
#9
Contrarian betting against ZH's agenda is probably the only thing more profitable thing, I doubt even buying BTC at 1 cent would match that.
LOL, I agree.  Since they're the digital equivalent of some old guy wearing a sandwich board that says "The End is Near" I think they're only going to be right once, and only if we actually experience Armageddon.  And at that point all bets are off anyway.

It may sound harsh, but I'm not going to shed a tear for anyone in the oil industry.  If the market for oil crashes, so be it.  The world ought to have adopted electric vehicles and alternative energy sources a long time ago, and seeing as how it didn't, it's allowed so much greed and corruption to thrive over the years that the end can't come soon enough IMO.  Plus you won't hear many folks complaining about how low gas prices have been--and I hope they drop even further.
legendary
Activity: 2730
Merit: 1288
April 20, 2020, 10:39:48 AM
#8
Let's talk about the oil industry.

Oil prices are doomed. Saudis and Russians are using this economic crisis to kill USA shale oil producers. They will succeed at its plan.
sr. member
Activity: 1876
Merit: 370
April 20, 2020, 09:55:06 AM
#7

So, this crisis was just the last drop in a 1000 gallon barrel.

I really thought that the situation in the oil industry was pretty bad, but now seeing that ZH is again going full throttle about another disaster I'm thinking nothing will happen. Contrarian betting against ZH's agenda is probably the only thing more profitable thing, I doubt even buying BTC at 1 cent would match that.


But how come it doesnt matter to oil industry in the long run? Surely the industry way to big and it can easily overcome the losses they are recurring right now. But lets just consider the current scenario heading up for over few months since pandemic is severe and we have no antidote for it.
We've been hit by this disastrous pandemic, every one is not prepared on this that's why every one is struggling, every market is collapsing and every one is panicking. For some time, Stock and oil market has a pattern, when stock is up and so does the oil market too, vice versa. We're on a month after some countries declared a nationwide quarantine, we might have not seen the worst effect that it could give the markets yet.
Considering use of crude oil in making the fuel, there is no rocket launch, no airplane taking off, no cars/trucks/bikes running for next few months and thus kings barrels are just waste with zero demand. This can rupture the shares for oil industry pretty badly I guess.
Considering this too, maybe oil market is quite safe even the prices is low since there are no consuming of it that much during this times.
legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 6403
Blackjack.fun
April 20, 2020, 09:43:23 AM
#6
~.
I guess that's one way to describe a $3.34 billion shortfall. Smiley

A Big Four auditor also signed off on their books 6 months ago, which just goes to show how easy it is to hide major frauds even at audited public companies. Crashes and liquidity crises often bring major insolvencies like this to a head. That's what happened here. At $60/barrel they were able to keep the fraud going, but not at these prices.

Yeah, because the barrel was already full, you used the word "fraud" yourself.
So the fund was nothing more than a Ponzi scheme, Ponzi schemes also keep going if people pour money, they won't fail unless one thing happens, let's be real, the main reason was the fraud in the books.
Otherwise, the entire sector would be dead.

And how is that the most important takeaway? Whether there is fraud underlying a bankruptcy doesn't make any difference.
Are you serious? Tongue

Even a broken clock is right twice a day. You don't have to pay attention to ZH.

Not the ZH dumbwatch, it shows 25:81.

The issue is the systemic risk the oil industry poses to banks.

I went through the articles you've quoted:
Considering use of crude oil in making the fuel, there is no rocket launch, no airplane taking off, no cars/trucks/bikes running for next few months and thus kings barrels are just waste with zero demand. This can rupture the shares for oil industry pretty badly I guess.



There is just a slowing demand for personal use, transport trucks are running 24/7 , why do you think FedEx and UPS are hiring drivers?
Same for the agriculture business and many more.
legendary
Activity: 3234
Merit: 5637
Blackjack.fun-Free Raffle-Join&Win $50🎲
April 20, 2020, 09:35:11 AM
#5
Black gold is experiencing its worst days, but this is not strange considering that most of the world is in a quarantine and most of the passenger and freight traffic is suspended. It is a classic example of supply and demand, and what happens when something becomes almost worthless. 

But still for those who were a little more aware of the developments in the oil price correlated with the pandemic, one moment was the key to a sharp fall in the oil price (20%), which dragged down all other markets, including stocks and crypto.

The oil crisis began a month ago when Russia refused to go along with cuts promoted by Saudi Arabia and other OPEC producers. In response, Saudi Arabia said it would increase production by three million barrels a day and flood the market. Oil prices and global stock markets fell sharply on the news.

It is obvious that Russia underestimated Saudi Arabia, which turned out to be a fatal mistake that was corrected only a few days ago with a deal to reduce production by 9.7 million barrels a day, which will take effect next month. This industry is simply too big to allow itself to collapse, as many as 10 million jobs are created in the US alone, closely related to the oil industry.

The only positive side of all this is the incredible improvement in air quality and the reduction of pollution.
legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1521
April 20, 2020, 09:23:31 AM
#4
Let's talk about the oil industry.

That's where an economic crisis for oil companies snowballs into a financial crisis for banks. This may be the first domino to fall in that respect. A massive Singapore oil trading firm just went bankrupt, leaving its creditors (banks) with a $3.34 billion shortfall!

You left out the most important paragraph in the Bloomberg article:

Quote
Omitted Losses
The son, also known as Evan Lim, said he was unaware of the reason for losses suffered over some years and his father had instructed Hin Leong’s finance department to omit them from its financial statements, according to his affidavit.
In his own affidavit seen by Bloomberg, the father also said he ordered that the losses be omitted and that the company hasn’t been making profits in the last few years, contrary to its financial statements.

So, this crisis was just the last drop in a 1000 gallon barrel.

I guess that's one way to describe a $3.34 billion shortfall. Smiley

A Big Four auditor also signed off on their books 6 months ago, which just goes to show how easy it is to hide major frauds even at audited public companies. Crashes and liquidity crises often bring major insolvencies like this to a head. That's what happened here. At $60/barrel they were able to keep the fraud going, but not at these prices.

And how is that the most important takeaway? Whether there is fraud underlying a bankruptcy doesn't make any difference. The issue is the systemic risk the oil industry poses to banks.

I'm more thinking about highly leveraged producers and field service companies and the banks who back them than physical oil traders anyway. This just happened to be relevant because the news broke yesterday. I'm sure there is also some level of Enron-style fraud going on in the oil industry too, which only exacerbates the risks.

I really thought that the situation in the oil industry was pretty bad, but now seeing that ZH is again going full throttle about another disaster I'm thinking nothing will happen.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day. You don't have to pay attention to ZH. Lots of respectable and mainstream analysts have been talking about this. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/20/business/energy-environment/coronavirus-oil-companies-debt.html
hero member
Activity: 2086
Merit: 603
April 20, 2020, 08:55:45 AM
#3

So, this crisis was just the last drop in a 1000 gallon barrel.

I really thought that the situation in the oil industry was pretty bad, but now seeing that ZH is again going full throttle about another disaster I'm thinking nothing will happen. Contrarian betting against ZH's agenda is probably the only thing more profitable thing, I doubt even buying BTC at 1 cent would match that.


But how come it doesnt matter to oil industry in the long run? Surely the industry way to big and it can easily overcome the losses they are recurring right now. But lets just consider the current scenario heading up for over few months since pandemic is severe and we have no antidote for it.

Considering use of crude oil in making the fuel, there is no rocket launch, no airplane taking off, no cars/trucks/bikes running for next few months and thus kings barrels are just waste with zero demand. This can rupture the shares for oil industry pretty badly I guess.

legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 6403
Blackjack.fun
April 20, 2020, 08:30:03 AM
#2
Let's talk about the oil industry.

That's where an economic crisis for oil companies snowballs into a financial crisis for banks. This may be the first domino to fall in that respect. A massive Singapore oil trading firm just went bankrupt, leaving its creditors (banks) with a $3.34 billion shortfall!

You left out the most important paragraph in the Bloomberg article:

Quote
Omitted Losses
The son, also known as Evan Lim, said he was unaware of the reason for losses suffered over some years and his father had instructed Hin Leong’s finance department to omit them from its financial statements, according to his affidavit.
In his own affidavit seen by Bloomberg, the father also said he ordered that the losses be omitted and that the company hasn’t been making profits in the last few years, contrary to its financial statements.

So, this crisis was just the last drop in a 1000 gallon barrel.

I really thought that the situation in the oil industry was pretty bad, but now seeing that ZH is again going full throttle about another disaster I'm thinking nothing will happen. Contrarian betting against ZH's agenda is probably the only more profitable thing than BTC, I doubt even buying BTC at 1 cent would match that.
legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1521
April 20, 2020, 06:29:37 AM
#1
Let's talk about the oil industry.

Crude oil prices are currently crashing to new lows, down 79% for the year and counting. The corona virus pandemic has completely destroyed global demand.



Why does this matter? The oil industry is heavily leveraged, lots of corporate debt. The oil crash threatens to push highly leveraged firms into bankruptcy:

Quote
Unfortunately, the positive and negative effects are not symmetric, and they do not cancel out. Those who get hurt by the price decline are likely to file for bankruptcies, and that may create a chain of cascading events: adverse events get amplified. If there is a wave of corporate default and bankruptcies, it will reverberate through the entire economy through inter-linkages in the financial sector and supply-chain.

That's where an economic crisis for oil companies snowballs into a financial crisis for banks. This may be the first domino to fall in that respect. A massive Singapore oil trading firm just went bankrupt, leaving its creditors (banks) with a $3.34 billion shortfall!

Quote
The downfall of Hin Leong Trading (Pte) Ltd., one of the biggest and most secretive forces in the world of physical fuel-oil trading, shows the depth of the fallout from the dramatic drop in oil prices so far this year as a consequence of the Saudi-Russia price war and the coronavirus pandemic.

Lim Chee Meng, the only son of Lim Oon Kuin, said the company also sold some of the million of barrels of refined products it had used as collateral to secure loans from its banks, according to the people, citing an April 17 email sent by the shipping affiliate of Hin Leong, notifying recipient parties of proposed moratorium proceedings.

As a result, the company faces a significant shortfall between the oil stocks it held and the inventories pledged to its banks. That potentially means huge losses for the banks which provided the merchant with billions in loans as the collateral they thought they have as a guarantee isn’t there.

Hin Leong told its creditors this month that total liabilities reached $4.05 billion as of early April, while assets were just $714 million, leaving a hole of at least $3.34 billion, according to screenshots of the presentation to a group of bankers seen by Bloomberg News.

The balance sheet of the company showed no equity at all as of April 9, 2020, and warned that “figures obtained from the company are subject to verification”.

The latest accounts of Hin Leong Trading, for the financial year ending October 31, 2019, were audited by Deloitte & Touche LLP. The auditor didn’t flag any problems, according to people familiar with the matter.

Deloitte audited their books through October last year and found no problems. Now, $3.34 billion gone. Who is going to eat those losses? Hin Leong and Ocean Tankers' creditors and banking partners. Could this be the first domino in a larger eventual banking crisis?

Quote
Last week, before we know the extent of the company's financial debacle - and fraud - we concludes that "it is unclear what will happen to the Singapore commodity trading giant if it is unable to find banks that will backstop its operations." Well, we now know - game over - which makes the second part of our forecast especially applicable: "should the firm become insolvent, the downstream cascade for companies in the Pacific Rim could be devastating."
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