Pages:
Author

Topic: Computer Scientists Prove God Exists - page 11. (Read 25296 times)

legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
November 13, 2013, 01:09:33 AM
Laws governing physical reality are abstract. Another word for 'abstract' is 'mental' to the extent that you cannot assert something abstract to exist without acknowledging that it exists due to mind.

In fact, the abstract metrics that we use give definition to our conception of physical reality.  For example, if we use a metric that you can divide infinitesimally, then we might say that space is continuous.  But, if we suddenly use a metric that cannot be divided infinitesimally, then space becomes discontinuous.

Sorry, I still have no idea what you are talking about XD

Quote
Because logic reinforces itself, 'infinite regressions' and other paradoxes must be self-resolving, for if they weren't, logic 1) is an incomplete method for forming true statements and therefore can't be trusted, and/or 2) is not self-contained, meaning there is some higher-order law (an illogical one, at that) at play capable of making sense of paradoxes, and therefore it can't be trusted.

A person who gives a logical "I know! It's ..." answer to the question "What's behind that horizon?" will come out rather foolish as soon as the person who said "I don't know" walks over to check it out. You have some strange concepts of logic...
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1020
November 12, 2013, 11:09:24 PM
If you can agree nothing is random supernatural, surely you can see how the world is manifested as a result of intelligent beings natural processes.

FTFY

And natural processes are the result of...?

The flying spaghetti monster  Grin

The go-to response for someone without a good answer.

The problem of infinite regression is one that exists in both the natural and supernatural view of the universe. I could say that natural processes are driven by the fundamental force of the universe. You could then come back and say "And fundamental forces are the result of...?", ... and so on... On the other hand I could say "And the flying spaghetti monster is the result of...?" ... and so on ...

There is always a limit to our knowledge, at some point we have to say 'I don't know'. But, just because we don't know something, it doesn't mean that God did it and to assume so is illogical.

No, you don't have to say you don't know.  Knowing through reason is fully contained within the realm of logic.  Logic is self-contained.  It reinforces itself.  Anything outside of logic isn't an "I don't know."  It's more like a "don't even bother going there because it's pointless to try."  You know that tree that falls in the forest where nobody's around to perceive it?  I don't either.

As long as you adhere to some essential rules you can never be wrong.  The reason you can never be wrong is because logic says you can never be wrong, so long as you're logical.

Because logic reinforces itself, 'infinite regressions' and other paradoxes must be self-resolving, for if they weren't, logic 1) is an incomplete method for forming true statements and therefore can't be trusted, and/or 2) is not self-contained, meaning there is some higher-order law (an illogical one, at that) at play capable of making sense of paradoxes, and therefore it can't be trusted.

Referencing "supernatural," I think we could both agree that this generally (and literally) means "above or superior to natural law."  This could imply a few things.  It could imply the possibility that something could directly manipulate or influence natural law and cause the law itself to change.  It could also imply the possibility that something could manipulate the content that the law governs without changing the law itself.  Or it could imply the possibility of both.  After all, were talking about "natural processes" here, and "natural processes" describes a relationship between both physically real content and abstractly real law.

Now, is supernatural possible?  Well, first of all, supernatural does NOT necessarily mean illogical.  It's quite plausible to imagine, for example, that for no apparent reason you could raise your arms up and start floating up into the air.  All I'm asserting is that it's possible to imagine.  And, given that thoughts are logical constructs, I'm also asserting that it's possible to imagine something quite "supernatural" (defying gravity).  This would be a concept representing a supernatural manipulation of content without manipulating the law itself.  The Jesus miracles are also examples of this.

Now, what about the other case?  Is is possible to imagine something supernatural affecting the law itself?  The whole concept of a god that is "outside of reality" but is real enough to "be inside of reality when he wants to" goes nowhere fast.  If something is real enough to be considered real, it would always be inside of reality and never outside of it.  A much more interesting option is a law that intrinsically changes itself.  If a law changes itself, then something interesting happens -- both the law and the content governed by that law are changed dynamically in tandem.

So, yes, I think supernatural is very possible, logically.  All you need is a Universe with an informational feedback loop.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 253
November 12, 2013, 10:02:36 PM
If you can agree nothing is random supernatural, surely you can see how the world is manifested as a result of intelligent beings natural processes.

FTFY

And natural processes are the result of...?

The flying spaghetti monster  Grin

The go-to response for someone without a good answer.

I'm guessing you missed the irony of your response.
legendary
Activity: 1134
Merit: 1002
You cannot kill love
November 12, 2013, 09:49:08 PM
If you can agree nothing is random supernatural, surely you can see how the world is manifested as a result of intelligent beings natural processes.

FTFY

And natural processes are the result of...?

The flying spaghetti monster  Grin
So, god.
legendary
Activity: 947
Merit: 1042
Hamster ate my bitcoin
November 12, 2013, 09:27:55 PM
If you can agree nothing is random supernatural, surely you can see how the world is manifested as a result of intelligent beings natural processes.

FTFY

And natural processes are the result of...?

The flying spaghetti monster  Grin

The go-to response for someone without a good answer.

The problem of infinite regression is one that exists in both the natural and supernatural view of the universe. I could say that natural processes are driven by the fundamental force of the universe. You could then come back and say "And fundamental forces are the result of...?", ... and so on... On the other hand I could say "And the flying spaghetti monster is the result of...?" ... and so on ...

There is always a limit to our knowledge, at some point we have to say 'I don't know'. But, just because we don't know something, it doesn't mean that God did it and to assume so is illogical.
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1020
November 12, 2013, 09:10:40 PM
If you can agree nothing is random supernatural, surely you can see how the world is manifested as a result of intelligent beings natural processes.

FTFY

And natural processes are the result of...?

The flying spaghetti monster  Grin

The go-to response for someone without a good answer.
legendary
Activity: 947
Merit: 1042
Hamster ate my bitcoin
November 12, 2013, 08:55:05 PM
If you can agree nothing is random supernatural, surely you can see how the world is manifested as a result of intelligent beings natural processes.

FTFY

And natural processes are the result of...?

The flying spaghetti monster  Grin
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1020
November 12, 2013, 08:50:02 PM
If you can agree nothing is random supernatural, surely you can see how the world is manifested as a result of intelligent beings natural processes.

FTFY

And natural processes are the result of...?
legendary
Activity: 1134
Merit: 1002
You cannot kill love
November 12, 2013, 07:31:24 PM
Ah, but I have already confirmed the existence of the supernatural.

And I know nothing is random.  I know my actions have consequences that ripple throughout the world.  If you look from the perspective of the water, not the ripple, you will see the impact you truly make.
legendary
Activity: 947
Merit: 1042
Hamster ate my bitcoin
November 12, 2013, 07:09:48 PM
If you can agree nothing is random supernatural, surely you can see how the world is manifested as a result of intelligent beings natural processes.

FTFY
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1001
November 12, 2013, 07:04:42 PM
If you can agree nothing is random, surely you can see how the world is manifested as a result of intelligent beings.

Dank.  I wholeheartedly agree with you for once.  Grin
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1001
November 12, 2013, 07:04:02 PM
Of course God exists, you don't need scientist to prove it or anyone else,
you just need to look around you and see that nothing happens without
reason and there are no coincidences.

Everything happens for a reason. That reason may just be something other than god. For instance, if you took a whole bunch of magnet bars with N and S at opposite ends, tossed them into the air, and let them fall freely over a large space, you'll see them orient themselves into large lines and curves, as the S's attract to the N's. Were the reason they oriented themselves in such a way god's doing? Or was it basic physics?

But why would they orient themselves into lines and curves?  Who made the laws of physics?  Did the laws of physics just happen by random chance too?  What you call "basic physics" is not all that basic is it?

legendary
Activity: 1134
Merit: 1002
You cannot kill love
November 12, 2013, 06:52:50 PM
If you can agree nothing is random, surely you can see how the world is manifested as a result of intelligent beings.
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1020
November 12, 2013, 06:21:30 PM
I have accidentally deleted my previous message:

Of course God exists, you don't need scientist to prove it or anyone else,
you just need to look around you and see that nothing happens without
reason and there are no coincidences.


Or everything is a "coincidence" (that's another word I never understood...its practical meaning just falls apart entirely).
full member
Activity: 294
Merit: 100
November 12, 2013, 06:15:48 PM
I have accidentally deleted my previous message:

Of course God exists, you don't need scientist to prove it or anyone else,
you just need to look around you and see that nothing happens without
reason and there are no coincidences.
full member
Activity: 294
Merit: 100
November 12, 2013, 06:12:37 PM


Everything happens for a reason. That reason may just be something other than god. For instance, if you took a whole bunch of magnet bars with N and S at opposite ends, tossed them into the air, and let them fall freely over a large space, you'll see them orient themselves into large lines and curves, as the S's attract to the N's. Were the reason they oriented themselves in such a way god's doing? Or was it basic physics?
[/quote]
You are missing my point. God is the creator of everything on earth, so he created
all the physical laws that we are  aware at the present time and that's your reason.
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1020
November 12, 2013, 06:04:59 PM
Of course God exists, you don't need scientist to prove it or anyone else,
you just need to look around you and see that nothing happens without
reason and there are no coincidences.

Everything happens for a reason. That reason may just be something other than god. For instance, if you took a whole bunch of magnet bars with N and S at opposite ends, tossed them into the air, and let them fall freely over a large space, you'll see them orient themselves into large lines and curves, as the S's attract to the N's. Were the reason they oriented themselves in such a way god's doing? Or was it basic physics?

Laws governing physical reality are abstract. Another word for 'abstract' is 'mental' to the extent that you cannot assert something abstract to exist without acknowledging that it exists due to mind.

In fact, the abstract metrics that we use give definition to our conception of physical reality.  For example, if we use a metric that you can divide infinitesimally, then we might say that space is continuous.  But, if we suddenly use a metric that cannot be divided infinitesimally, then space becomes discontinuous.

Edit: by the way, you had problems when I said earlier that chance is simply a word for unknown causation.  Now, based upon what I'm quoting, you sound like you would agree with me.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
November 12, 2013, 05:52:13 PM
Of course God exists, you don't need scientist to prove it or anyone else,
you just need to look around you and see that nothing happens without
reason and there are no coincidences.

Everything happens for a reason. That reason may just be something other than god. For instance, if you took a whole bunch of magnet bars with N and S at opposite ends, tossed them into the air, and let them fall freely over a large space, you'll see them orient themselves into large lines and curves, as the S's attract to the N's. Were the reason they oriented themselves in such a way god's doing? Or was it basic physics?
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 253
November 09, 2013, 12:03:45 AM
I'm not even going to waste my time clicking the link and reading the article.


yeah but you wasted your time posting here instead. It seems the title piqued your interest somehow.
legendary
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1003
We are the champions of the night
November 09, 2013, 12:00:32 AM
Heck, we've got iPhone apps now that can tell when you're in REM sleep by how much you move around.  It's pretty easy to figure out when somebody is and isn't dreaming.
Pages:
Jump to: