Topic: Coronavirus Outbreak - page 82. (Read 29937 times)

^^^ Actually, there are two basic forms of Coronavirus:
1. The family of viruses that fit the CV group;
2. The popular Coronavirus which isn't a literal virus at all, but is just a bunch of words.

The pandemic is part of #2. It's a bloating of the information about deaths regarding Coronavirus virus. You can easily see this in the fact that deaths from CV/Covid-19 have gone way up, while deaths from all other cause have gone way down. They haven't, of course. But that's the reports, simply to make CV look way more dangerous than it is.

On top of that, in the USA, we are finding out that way more millions of people have CV, and are healthy because their bodies have developed a natural immunity.

So, the pandemic is a political/money pandemic, existing just to scare people into becoming subservient to government via their own fears.

I don't really care about Trump one way or another so I don't need to attack or defend him, I think the man is a moron personally, but I also respect people's right to vote for a moron if they so choose.

I would say your naivety is cute, but I know you are smarter than some of the others here, and you are deliberately leaving things out to make an argument to what you feel has more importance. My point about every other country in the world was to say that its ridiculous to think that this is an internal political game we're playing when nearly every other country in the world is dealing with the same problem and rallying together to deal with the problem rather than polarizing things even further. Everyone else in the world wants to laugh at our incompetence, but our health effects them as well so the laughing is a bit more stifled than it would be otherwise.

Globalism happens when transportation gets better. Staying as the good ole 1800s America protected by a sea gets tricky when we have airplanes that'll get us to Europe in 6 hours. If the global dictator's plan was to breed a country stupid enough to kill itself in order to stay out of their clutches, they're doing a fantastic job. We're tanking our own economy and killing our own people faster than they possibly could, so congratulations! We don't have time to play around with the spooky possibilities when we have an immediate threat. I actually agree with a lot of your thoughts at least to a degree in a regular situation, but its not the time to figure out what to have for dinner when you're inside of a burning building.

The no one is being forced to come to work thing is an absolute joke, you know just as well as I do the power employers hold over their employees. Look at the meat processing plants where they were told to come in sick otherwise they'd risk losing their jobs. We like to say idealistic things about how everyone has free will and slavery is illegal, but wage/debt slavery is a very real concept thats absolutely cemented as part of human nature. Why did we ever allow ourselves to be serfs, why did we ever allow ourselves to be slaves, I certainly would never have been a slave, yet these things keep repeating. As soon as the government says we're ready to open up, whether thats ill advised or not, every company where the decisionmaking body isn't right on the front line with the minimum wage slaves will be opening up. In states that open too soon, unemployment benefits dry up for those that know that they should not return back to work. Just a reminder, unemployment is something they take out of your paycheck and hold onto, it is your money, its not the government giving you a handout. I'm not sure why you think I'm comfortable, I pretty explicitly said that I was not, and my situation isn't all that great, but it beats being dead! Again, I repeat, going against "the plan" makes things worse. We've all got a shitty situation and we can deal with it, or we can make it worse.

I'm actually pretty glad you brought up risk analysis. In New York right now, Corona virus is on track to kill more people than every single cause of death.
in 2017 155,000 people died in New York of all causes. Old age, heart disease, cancer, etc. https://www.health.ny.gov/statistics/vital_statistics/2017/#mort
in 2016 154,000 people died in New York of all causes. https://www.health.ny.gov/statistics/vital_statistics/2016/table31a.htm
in 2015 154,000 people as well https://www.health.ny.gov/statistics/vital_statistics/2015/table31a.htm

Yeah yeah I know the risk isn't the same for population dense areas versus rural Montana, but you'll see similar results for all of the states that have been hit hard, and again we're just at the beginning of this.

I'm floored by your statement about, staying at home and collecting checks. I'd rather earn 10x more money working and not have to worry about how I'll be able to square the debts I'm incurring now. What I do agree with is simple math and risk analysis, insurance companies have been doing it successfully forever, so I'm fairly confident that the US government has the ability to weigh the risks. Follow me here cameraman, we reopen everything back up, and the statisticians predict that every 1 in X people will end up hospitalized as the result, we estimate how many people it'll spread to from them and their risk of hospitalization, we then figure out how many people total will likely end up hospitalized/dead. Add in the effect of people missing 2-3 weeks of work home sick, etc. We tally up all of the bills versus all of the economic benefit of them going back to work, and if we tally it all up and its negative, they tell us to stay home or we'll make things worse. We've got a baseline of lives lost, short term/long term economic damage. Measures are in place to minimize all of that. Losing a job for 2 months due to a natural disaster sucks, losing it for 40 years because it kills the person working there is worse.

If I was making $10/hr checking tickets at the movie theater, I'd like to say I'd be in a position to weigh the chances of me incurring $140k worth of medical debt versus the value of my paycheck, but a rumbling stomach makes that decision for you sometimes. Or, we can listen to the medical professionals that are collaborating with the government and their statisticians to follow a responsible reopening plan that minimizes economic impact and fatalities. Or we can throw temper tantrums and starve and infect more people than the absolute minimum.

This isn't an argument.



We don't have any control over the rest of the world, and how they decide to handle this situation is not our responsibility. It is also completely a non-sequitur relating to this discussion. You also assume that there is no one who would profit from burning down the world economy, and there you would be dead wrong. Not only is this a perfect scapegoat to collapse the global economy which has been showing cracks for many years, even when you look at it from China's perspective, they benefit from stalling out the rest of the globe giving them longer to dig their claws in and fight the world's resistance to the system of dependence they have created on them for their manufacturing capacity. It is essentially like China losing at a game of monopoly, rather than admitting defeat, they flip over the table hoping that they might have a chance to find a better position rather than deal with the assured fate of their loss.

Regarding Trump, that is cute how you threw in the recent meme level news you seem to rely on. He didn't tell anyone to do anything, he asked a question. Furthermore what does the word "disinfectant" mean? Lets break it down. Infectant = something that infects, dis = to negate or remove. Disinfectant = something that negates or removes an infectious agent. People desperate to confirm their bias and looking desperately for any "gotcha" moment, real or manufactured rush to this like a bitch in heat because it has great optics in spite of its total lack of substance. Certain entities have been working overtime for DECADES to strip this country of its freedoms, because if we remain free, we will always serve as an example for other nations to desire what we have, freedom. The USA is the last stumbling block in the path of creating a globalist dictatorship. In summary, yes they very much do have motives to do these things in spite of your tenacious clinging to the buttocks of normalcy bias.

As far as the "free money" thanks for pointing out it is ineffective at preventing the shut down of production capacity. No one is being "forced" to come to work. Last I checked slavery was still illegal here. People however are being forced into poverty, homelessness, starvation, and suicide because of state mandates prohibiting them from running their businesses and earning a living to support themselves and others. This isn't a 1 day shut down, this is months on end of shutdown. I am glad you are comfortable. Other people aren't, but that is a sacrifice you are willing to make isn't it? It is kind of hard to shelter in place if you are homeless is it not? Lets just ignore the fact that even if everything opened up tomorrow, nothing would stop you from just staying home to protect yourself now would it? Regarding deaths, you would rather pretend that the peak of effect in one month is not a bell curve but something that will continue month after month. You know damned well even if ZERO precautions were taken, that is not how diseases work. Far more people die from car accidents every year, if this is the logic we are using we should ban cars immediately. No one has a right to put other people's lives at risk driving around after all.

This isn't just about cost of life or cost in money. Your precious projections you claim that have been so carefully worked out have no way to measure the permanent loss of production capacity over time that will result as the after effect of this no matter how much you chant "the government is here to help!" You are right, people don't give a shit. They want to sit at home safe and collect checks for doing nothing like an extended paid vacation. Unfortunately those little slips of paper don't mean shit when the people who actually produce the products you need to survive are driven out of business never to return.

You really need to lay off the conspiracy/psuedo-science blogs, tabloids and youtube channels.  

Listen directly and objectively to what the most qualified Doctors and Scientists say instead of letting a blog like zerohedge or some guy on youtube explain it to you.  You're smarter than that.

Back to the self centered part, Canada, Italy, Spain, all of these enemy countries are also doing these same measures to prop up the fight in our country correct? It is in Germany's best interest to tank their economy to perpetuate this scam to crater our economy. Whether you are a republican, a democrat, or a lizard person, the effects this is having on the economy is effecting us the same, we're all in this together. Its absolute arrogance to think this is even slightly about the US, its a global problem. I don't think anyone needs to stage some elaborate global coup d'etat  to try to damage the reputation of the man telling us to inject disinfectant, if he gets the vote, he gets the vote. The dependence on the government you speak of is just listening to them saying its not financially worth for us to allow our people to get infected. While it is a crying shame that the meat processing factories that forced their employees to come to work and caused hundreds of millions of dollars of damage were shut down, lucky for us the Cheetos factory is still open after a 1 day shutdown.

The number of people effected by this illness is a tiny fraction of the death and pain that will result from this loss of production capacity so far! We've had 50,000 people die in a month with safety measures in place. Luckily, I know that you aren't a moron and understand how illness is spread, its a lot slower rolling when there are 100 cases versus 1 million cases, so I don't need to press on the point that every bit of data we can scrape together right now is showing the absolute minimum effect we could possibly have from the virus.

Again, as I mentioned all of the things you're talking about have already been weighed in the official government road map. Trying to factor it in twice isn't really helpful, all rocking the boat does at this point is cost us more money and lives from the virus, starvation, supply chain collapse, whatever. I'm not sure what free money you're talking about, but I'm a business owner and this hasn't been all that fantastic. The free money that I'm eternally grateful about that I haven't received and will maybe cover a week's expenses if I'm lucky is certainly worth it. Again, going back to work costs the country more resources than not going to work. Every person that gets sick prolongs this and costs the country more money. I don't really understand how this is a hard concept for people, I absolutely agree that it sucks that there is famine around the world, but disregarding safety increases the food problem, it doesn't decrease it. Most people don't give a shit about lives or the economy, they're just tired of being home. But nah, you're probably right. I've really enjoyed this time off while I wait to see how I'll pay my bills. I just sort of realize it'll be awfully tricky to pay them if I'm dead, so I'll just deal with it a little while longer and not bitch, because plenty of people have it worse than me.

the hospital/doctor does not get an extra $12k
sorry. just no
hospitals get paid by medicare/medicaid for each treatment the patient needs. same as usual

hospitals dont get paid a bonus for switching toetags.

hospitals get paid per treatment. so if someone needs a ventilator. thats standard ventilator charge. if they need an xray. thats a standard xray charge.
its all standard income for the hospital
so for the fourth time today
hospital does not gain. .. only the insurance company behind recoups losses from government

have a nice day and i hope you have now woke up

Oh, well you know them! That makes your argument completely not anecdotal and an appeal to authority right? You believe do you? Have you had your eyes welded shut the last 4 years? Have you not seen the insane lengths some of these districts will go to in order to try to fabricate some kind of scandal or disaster to throw at Trump to give themselves a chance in hell at being able to unseat him via hook or crook? Do you think they are above intentionally cratering the economy to depose him and to create the socialist UBI system they have been trying to push for years? I don't.

This isn't about claiming the virus isn't real or that people shouldn't take precautions. I notice any time anyone objects people love to claim that it is either you support all these totalitarian restrictions or you want to "do nothing". This is about these restrictions being used intentionally as a vector to crater the economy to force a very large portion of the US population into dependence on the government. What could go wrong depending on the government to feed and house you right?

Furthermore this IS breaking the supply chain. Do you think all these producers who are shutting down now because of these restrictions are going to be able to open back up? Of course not. You like to imagine that everything important is designated as essential and therefore everything is fine. That is not how it works in reality. Also you have no concept of how delicate the modern "just in time" supply chain is. These interruptions have dealt critical blows to our supply chain infrastructure, and the longer we let it bleed out the more our capacity to recover dwindles.

The results of the loss of this capacity is not just about profit, it is how all of us are fed, housed, and medically cared for. The number of people effected by this illness is a tiny fraction of the death and pain that will result from this loss of production capacity. Regarding these states begging for federal bail outs, just watch. They are using this situation to claim that is why they were in this position, not because of their own horrible mismanagement, but because of the virus. They will extend the lock downs as long as possible to create even more pressure to push federal bailouts. You watch as the cries for this grow louder.

Self centered? You know what is self centered? People like you who want to stay safe at home collecting "free money" while the people who feed you are losing everything because you think those in charge got it all figured out and would never steer us wrong. What does us being not the only nation dealing with this have to do with anything besides a pathetic appeal to emotion on your part? You know what else effects other nations? When food shortages start here in any scale, poor nations have FAMINE. Not shortages, millions die. Make some more appeals to emotion and tell me about being self centered again you twat.

Would you be willing to commit a serious crime and risk 8+ years of your life and $500k plus any potential jail time you'd face so that your employer could earn 1/700th of their daily profit? Again... why would the CDC want to perpetuate the whole corona virus thing. Government does not want you to stop working and giving them a portion of your paycheck. What they really don't want however is to have to pay your medical bill when you can't afford it, and stop receiving your money because you're dead.

So doctors don't help their organization make easy money?  You must be pretty naive.

As for losing a license and what-not, it's much more likely that a doctor or hospital will lose more than just an extra $12,000 per person if the do NOT help perpetuate the fraud that the CDC so desperately wants.

Hospitals in the US makes billions of dollars per year. It makes absolute perfect sense to risk billions in steady income for $12k. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, and lets say that hospital administration is corrupt and willing to deal with ten thousand fold repercussions, the actual people who's job it is to write 'covid' on their toe tag aren't seeing any of that money. How much of that $12k would you need to pay to someone with an already decent salary to make them risk their job, license, and medical degree? And once again, no one is going to catch wind of that and blow any whistles I'm sure. No chance of getting caught when you're in rural Iowa and ticking off numbers that are scrutinized and analyzed by 50 different agencies I'm sure.

I think most of us can probably come to the agreement that people will generally operate in self interest. The people who do steady business here on Bitcointalk are less likely to scam someone over 0.01 BTC if it means a loss of 1 BTC in revenue over the next (insert timeframe). Even with almost no accountability, more often than not we find this to be the case. So even if you don't trust hospitals, it makes reasonable sense that they aren't going to get themselves in trouble for an hour's revenue.

to correct you seeing as your having another ignorant/naive day again
a death certificate does not say "died of covid"

a death certificate would show things like hypoxia, pneumonia, cough fever, it would include test results of scans, blood and mucus. and its the combination of all of that which forms the bases of a covid death.

for instance of someone has just a cough due to covid. and is riding a motorbike and crashes and goes to hospital for being impaled on a spike. dying due to blood loss. even if he is also tested for covid. the death would be a road trafic accident
hospitals do not gain from just throwing random people into a covid coffin
hospitals get paid to treat patients for the SYMPTOMS they are suffering from.

separately in a different office that is not part of the covid reporting..
insurance companies get paid for any treatment linked to covid.

so in the case of a road traffic accident. the insurance company would only get money back from the covid test. but all other treatments they paid the hospital comes out of the insurance companies bank account

For a cool $12,000 I'll bet the do it all the time, and especially after the CDC assured doctors that they would NOT be checking up on cause-of-death.

The only question I have is how many people they decide to label 'covid-19' and bump off a little bit before the maker would be calling them home.

Even before this 'balognavirus scamdemic' I counciled aging people to not go to the hospital without a healthy person standing by and watching like a hawk.  Now because of the scamdemic family members are not allowed to accompany their parents into the office.  How convenient.

first of all i agree US medical system is about profit. but not for the nurses but the chiefs that own the building.
this is why UK/canada and other public health system is better
US is known to decline treatment if someone doesnt have the right insurance coverage. or is thrown into debt
but thats the administration problem of economics. not the medicine
which is an example of a failure of capitalist for the US

secondly
'clinics' have their own rules because usually those doctors are also the managing partners/owners of the clinic so they are more in it for the money.
its these clinics that started the painkiller addict situation over the last 20 years
again an example capitalisms flaws

thirdly
the 80-90% is an outright lie. its much lower.
but if people dont get oxygen.. guess what that would be 100% death in 10 minutes

fourthly
hospitals get paid the same amount for things whether a ventilator is needed for X or Y. its the same cost.
what you have not researched is that the insurance provider is getting recouped by government/state budget instead of using their standard insurance reserves.
in short hospitals do not get more.
..

now lets actually deal with the fake stuff said about death certificates
when a patient enters a hospital with cough fever and breathing issues. they are swabbed and test is sent off
the patient is then given treatment for the symptoms they are presenting. and also given xrays and ct scans and bloo d samples to see if it has progressed to have damaged any organs.
patients are given treatment for all the things diagnosed.

if the eventually die. its not just shown as 'covid death' like some idiots think
the patient usually dies from a few complications and its these complications that are listed. such as hypoxia
the death certificate includes the details of the pneumonia and the covid test results and the other symptoms. and it all builds up a diagnoses that is a now known symptomology of covid death.

doctors dont just find a random patient in a morgue and write 'covid' on their toe tag

Any trust is gone when hospitals get paid to have sick people and receive more for something which in most cases makes things worse, 80-90% of patients put on ventilator die. ER doctors are being pressured to add Covid-19 to death reports.
US: Hospitals Get Paid $13K to List Patients as COVID-19 and $39K to Put Them on a Ventilator


In other news places with no recorded COVID-19 dis ease
North Korea
Tajikistan
Turkmenistan
Lesotho
Comoros
Solomon Islands
Sahrawi Arab Dem. Rep.
Vanuatu
Samoa
Kiribati
Federated States of Micronesia
Tonga
Marshall Islands
South Ossetia
American Samoa
Palau
Cook Islands
Tuvalu
Wallis and Futuna
Nauru
Saint Helena
Svalbard
Christmas Islands
Norfolk Islands
Niue
Tokelau
Somaliland
Republic of Artsakh
Republic of Abkhazia
Transnistria
Ascension Islands
Cocos Islands
Tristan da Cunha
Pitcain Islands

I know the people who hand down these dictates and trust them personally. Its the medical team at Johns Hopkins telling the government what they'd recommend. The government then independently verifies what they've been recommended, and passes the information on via official channels (CDC). The governors then decide where to go from there. The states that have been hit the worst have had to enact more strict measures, not the other way around. I'm inclined to believe that theres not a whole lot of trickery going on here because theres no incentive. The government is losing revenue and has to deal with annoyed citizens. The medical teams are getting paid less and working more hours, most people don't strive for a lose-lose situation. The federal bailout is an absolute joke, the amount of money given to the states for all of this is laughable. The money is going to corporations for stock buybacks, but at least multi million dollar corporation's CEOs will be in good positions once this is over.

I didn't say that it isn't effecting the supply chain, I said that the supply chain isn't broken, because those people involved are designated as essential. Everything has already been calculated. Shutting down is the cheapest solution. None of this is unprecedented. All of these measures have already been done by a handful of countries in the past 20 years for localized outbreaks (SARS in Canada, MERS in Korea, Ebola in Africa)

The self centered attitude of Americans is astounding to me. We're not the only country dealing with this, every country is the world is, and plenty to the same extent we are. We're just the only ones stupid enough to think that we're better off listening to idiots than doctors. Then we get severely more ill than everyone else and blame those doctors that we don't listen to in the first place.

Shows how little people trust the official 'public health' system of bureaucrats, hospitals, and doctors these days.

Last time I did a binge watch for 'DIY home surgery' the U.S. led the world in vid count.  Probably censored by youtube these days.

and the real story is.
that place is not even a medical clinic for the vit-c service. but a 'pay cash - get injected' rental space

they are a 'clinic' for skin/vein stuff. but they are offering non-insured services too. and because of this. patients are not covered by any clinic given liability protections.

this is where many countries governments fail. they should have put stuff into planning in february not march-april to be implemented in may-june

alot of businesses didnt 'furlow' their staff but instead sack them due to knowing they wont have the money in march april may+ to pay staff,
if governments that fully knew of the outbreak in january should have already started planning worse case scenarios. and implemented them at same time as declaring lockdown

in the UK for instance many businesses are told they wont get their 'government grant' until june and should take out a business loan to cover march, april and may and then use the grant to repay the banks

however back in february/march when social distancing and lockdowns began businesses decided to sack staff and make them have to claim social security benefits instead.

i would say to most recently unemployed. to use this oppertunity to change your job, find something new that fit your skills. or find a new niche that can help during this year to make some money.

many coffee shops who know they wont be opening for next 3-6 months converted themselves into food/beverage deliveries. same for some bars/pubs
some are even selling their produce raw... such as flour, eggs, bread, butter, milk, tinned veg/beans and meat directly to customers

truck drivers who used to work for delivering barrels of beer, moved to be a truck driver for grocery stores and distribution centres-regional hubs for things like amazon and mail

"FBI conducting raid on Michigan hospital for using intravenous vitamin C"

https://www.wxyz.com/news/fbi-conducting-raid-at-allure-medical-in-shelby-township


"Fewer than half of working Americans will have a paycheck in May as devastating coronavirus layoffs persist"

https://www.businessinsider.com/layoffs-coronavirus-less-than-half-american-workers-paycheck-wage-may-2020-4

world war?

nah.
tell me what state you are in and ill find you a farm job you can do, ill even show you local walkpaths or cycle paths to just get out the house, ill also show you some grocery stores you can go to. and amazon/alibaba/ebay for the rest

there wont be wars fighting over oil.. right now oil suppliers are paying refineries to take it off their hands.

if you think there will be wars on trying to protect fiat. there wont they will just inflate fiat value

give it a few decades and minimum wage could be $10trill an hour and a loaf of bread being $1trill.. thus making the 'debt' repayable back to banks get written off for the price of a car trunk full of bread.

just like government done the maths of which is cheaper to fund, social security or medical care. they do the same maths of do they just cover the 'bank account' insurance and let the banks they owe fail by not paying the banks but protecting the bank customers

the only war i can see is civil war of stupid idiot citizens wanting to cause a fight because they are wrongly informed to be protesting in favour of economy of a dead currency (yep bitcoiners know fiat aint what it used to be), instead of protesting to save lives

once you realise a healthy nurse is more valuable then a bank note you might start to care more about peoples health and not the economy