Topic: Count down to Iran invasion - page 6. (Read 41923 times)

would a proxy-provokation (by Israel) do the job?

I was going to go through each point individually, but then I realized I don't have to. Your argument has been that the US will go to war. Your "evidence" is that politicians are evil, and that they're going to somehow make a profit off of a war with Iran. This is not real evidence. It is simply your opinion.

Where is actual proof?

Actually, I don't need actual proof, since I don't think that we'll find it. Instead, I want you to explain how anyone profits from "burn[ing] down the world", as you put it.

I also want an explanation as to why going to war is better than lifting the embargo. Stop ignoring this point.

You seem to be operating under the assumption that the government has public interest in mind. This is about protecting private business, and the current corrupt failing financial system long enough for them to collapse it profitably. They don't care about the United States, or its people, or any people or nation for that matter. This is about 1 thing, same as in every other war. Profit. The US, China, and Russia are on an economic and resource based collision course. One or more nations must change its consumption habits quickly or else there will not be enough resources to go around. This is a fact. This is first a game by the capital holders, second the world being made to dance and climb over each other for the privilege of things like clean water and nontoxic food. If they have to burn down the world to make a profit they will.

You seem to ignore some of my points. It's kind of annoying.

You have not explained why the US would impose an embargo on Iran, if it's so important that Iran use the USD. Maybe I'm crazy, but wouldn't trading with them force them to use the USD? Are US merchants going to accept rial and start speaking Farsi?

Also, energy cartels? You mean like OPEC, which Iran is a part of but the US is not? The US does not have an "energy cartel". In fact, for the most powerful nation on Earth we are very reliant on others for energy. Interestingly enough, less than 13% of our oil comes from the Middle East.



Finally, proxy war? This is not the Cold War. China is our closest economic partner. If they suffer, we suffer. We are not enemies with Russia either. Remember that the US did not start the Syrian Civil War. Assad was a dictator, and like all dictators his people got fed up. In this case Russian and American interests came in conflict, but it was not a decision made by Russia, the US, or Iran. It was purely the fault of the Syrian government.

This last paragraph is not a reply to the quoted post, but you've been ignoring it every time I say it. Explain why Hamas is exempt from the "mutual defense treaty" but the US is not.

This. Listen to what he is saying for a second before you convince yourself of your point. The US NEEDS people to use the dollar to trade in oil because that is what backs the value of the USD. Seeing as the USD is fiat with zero backing, the only real way they can force people to use it is via energy cartels which mandate people to use it to trade oil, and therefore accept it in exchange for oil.

This means a constant supply of foreign holders. It doesn't matter of martians trade with us, if they buy oil in USD from ANYONE it props up the dollar, and it certainly needs some propping. That is not even to mention the geopolitical value of the region in regards to proxy war with Russia and China, but all the natural resources located there. I am not advocating war, but these are facts.

Here are the facts:

1. The USD is the currency of the United States.
2. Iran does not trade with the United States, not by its own choice, but because of a US embargo on all Iranian products.
3. Iran cannot trade in USD (from the US) because the US does not allow it.

Iran does not trade in USD because the country that the USD is backed by does not trade with Iran. This is the same reason that Cuba doesn't trade in USD.
The petrodollar theory does not apply because Iran has no choice in the matter. Even if Rouhani decides that he loves the US, he cannot trade in USD because the US has imposed an embargo. The Iranian propaganda department may claim that they are choosing to not trade in USD, but in reality it's not their decision.

If this embargo did not exist, I might agree with petrodollar theory. However, the embargo does exist, and so long as it does Iran cannot trade in USD regardless of what it wants to do.

I am not "disagree[ing] with facts and conclusions". The facts are that Iran is not trading with the USD because of the embargo. This is not a theory like petrodollar, this is the reality of the situation.

My opinion is this: Were the embargo to be lifted, would Iran trade in USD? More than likely yes. Cuba, which has had an embargo for much longer, and has been a much more serious enemy of the US, is still willing to trade if the US imposed embargo is lifted.

Maybe this article will be helpful.

http://www.crisishq.com/why-prepare/world-war-3-preserving-petrodollar/

Feel free to disagree with the facts and conclusions, but this is what I'm trying to describe.

I'm not advocating that United States go to war with Iran.  Iran doesn't want to use Federal Reserve notes to sell their oil on the international market. 

No, it is not irrelevant. Currently, Iran has nothing to do with the USD. Were the US to lift its embargo, USD would be traded through Iran. Were the US to invade, the exact same thing would happen, except that Iran's economy would be destroyed and Americans would die.

Explain the benefit of war versus lifting the embargo.

It's irrelevant whether the United States trades with Iran;  it's a currency issue.  Exporting Federal Reserve notes maintains the value of the US dollar, and the United States uses military force to ensure that the US dollar stays as the world reserve currency through the Petrodollar.

Of course they don't. We don't trade with them. If the US cares so much about what currency they use, why did we place an embargo on them?

You're saying that it makes sense for the US to invade their country, leading to US deaths, negative public opinion, and a debilitated Iranian economy just so that they use USD instead of the Euro? That is not sound logic.

I think it would make more sense for the US to just lift the embargo. Why go to war?

The issue, as outlined in the wikipedia entry, is that they aren't using Federal Reserve Notes to transact their oil internationally.

Unless I'm mistaken, the US does not import oil (or anything) from Iran, and there are economic sanctions on countries that do. If Iran started using the USD, it would make no difference as the US does not import oil from them anyways.

And again, why does this "mutual defense treaty" not apply to Hamas? If the US wants to provoke Iran, they're going to have to try harder because apparently going to war with Assad is not enough to warrant the stopping of funding, let alone military action.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrodollar_warfare

Explain to me why the US would want to go to war with Iran? And also, since you didn't respond, why does this so called mutual defense treaty which has no known details not apply to Hamas?

Seems to me that Saudi Arabia would be more likely to initiate an attack on Iran, given the Shiite vs Sunni sectarian battles that have been going on for a long time. If anything, that would be the most likely start of a regional conflict and Israel would just join in for shits and giggles.

You know what else is just around the corner?





+2 internets points for including a cat picture.

People just enjoy masturbating their egos in public as if they get a prize for self proclaimed expertise. I bumped this discussion to, I dunno DISCUSS the issue, not to get +1 internets points in the hierarchy of basement dweller correctitude.

Please explain to me why the time-frame matters.

1,000,000 dead human beings will be the exact same tragedy 2 years from now as it would have been 2 years ago... as it would be today.

We have been chipping away at all Irans' allies and friends - the entire middle east - since the 1970's.