Topic: Crimea (Read 156940 times)

For those who like history, this topic is a goldmine   , of course some of the best posts have been removed  .
As some of you can't listen, maybe can your read  .

I have a little question : is this Jacob Jeremiah Sullivan the same as in the phone call about yats and fucking eu with nudelman? she just said she would refer it to "sullivan"... maybe it's another "jake"
(and that's how you remain on topic, while doing a great necro - enjoy).

I know some people too. There is another point view of economics. But... I actually understand them. Money is not everything in a life, and also future seems good enough!

What kind of "rights"?
Crimea was autonomous entity before USSR was formed, and Guirey's (dynasty of Khans) descendant was one of the signatories
in the Soyuzny dogovor (Treaty of Union) of USSR.
It's population consisted of Russian majority and of Tatars, the previous invaders, now a minority.

After WWII, Stalin expelled Tatars and downgraded Crimea to just an "oblast" which was rolled back in 1991 by people of Crimea,
they restored their autonomy.

Ukrain is Unitary State by it's consitution:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitary_state

Whereas the original Crimean Constitution of 1991 stated that Crimea is a sovereign state, voluntarily ceding certain powers to government of Ukraine.
So in fact, Ukraine + Crimea was a confederation (if not even looser kind of Union of two States).

This Union broke down in 2014 after illegal coup d'etat in Kiev.

What kind of "rights" can confederation center have to any regions, if those regions stopped ceding their sovereign powers by referendum?

Sevastopol, as distinct of Crimea, was never a part of Ukrainian Soviet Republic. It was directly subordinated to USSR, as it was home of Soviet Fleet.
Sevastopol was "gifted" by Yeltsin who shot at Russian Parliament from tanks (after Parliament made a decision to take Sevastopol into Russian Federation).

These are hard historical facts. You can mock them all you like, speak of Dinosaurs and cetera, try to manipulate weak minds all over the world with "fredom vs slavery" propaganda, but they remain as they are regardless.

Nikita Khruschev and Boris Yeltsin traitorously stole and sold Crimea and Sevastopol from Russia, each of these traitors gaining his own benefits for that act. Years 1991-2014 were illegal occupation of Crimea and Sevastopol by a new state of Ukraine, who is not even a de-jure successor of Ukrainian Soviet Republic. They didn't pay USSR sovereign debt and they denounced Soyuzny Dogovor (Treaty of Union) losing all claims to about a half of it's territory, ceded by that Treaty.

If you doubt this conclusion, consider the fact that annual rent for Sevastopol (to which Ukraine had absolutely no claim whatsoever) was 3-4 billions USD. And you think Yeltsin's "family" didn't receive any kickback?

This region was a disputed one for at least within last four or five centuries starting from the Osman Empire questioning to that land. In sum, of course, annexion leading to the war conflict is not the solution here but maybe give an autonomy to Crimea so the last one could decide to what side to join to would be a good solution

crimea, As we know ... is a large land located on the eastern end of Europe and consists of Ukraine and Russia. Crimea is located in the easternmost region. Bordered in the south by the Black Sea forms the southern tip of the peninsula, connecting it to the whole of Europe. And military bases and telecommunications facilities on the peninsula and forcing the local government to hold an illegal referendum on reunification with Russia. Ukraine continues to defend their rights to this peninsula.

Why would Russians be against it?  Ask Ukrainians and Tatars.

Russia remains a soviet empire, run by soviet military.  They will sign whatever you want, tell you whatever you want but in the end, they will do what they want.  Non-Russians do not understand this culture.

Trump is an idiot thinking he can reason with Putin.  It reminds me of when George W said that he looked into Putin's eyes and saw his soul, LOL.  

The little guy is obviously trying to convince everyone that he is a real man.  Makes me wonder why?

Russia invaded Crimea and took it by force, there were no 98% votes on the referendum, it was manipulated.

I personally know some prople who were happy to be back as a part of Russia. And now they say that economics rased up since they left Ukraine.

Crimea is now a part of Russia...Russia takes it by won the Crimean peoples vote...
Now Crimea will developed more and fast  day by day.....I hope rest of the world also support on Crimea's decision..

trump today : crimea is occupied

 

I'm so glad Crimea is finally where it belongs. Ukrainian fascist government basically gave it away themselves. If they would listen to people living there, this wouldn't happen.

If the ordinary Russians are against the annexation of Crimea, then Putin's approval ratings would have been much lower than the current level of 85%. Also, the Crimeans are happy with their economic situation, at least when compared to the complete chaos and poverty in Ukraine.

Crimea always was Russian earth exceptionally in your dreams. It is enough to honour history of this peninsula, that to know who he before belonged to. But you and farther so think, it very amusedly.)

It is not so simple. In 2014, people are deceived and many already know it. They are silent because they are afraid of reprisals. Firstly, the referendum was illegitimate and the votes were rigged, and second Crimea for the Russians it is a bleeding wound which will lead to infection of the whole organism. Already a lot of Russians do not support the annexation of Crimea and believe that it will be better if Crimea is part of Ukraine.

Crimean Tatars + Kazan Tatars are around 12.6% of the population in Crimea. And many of those enrolled as Kazan Tatars are actually Crimean Tatars. And talking about the 2.05% who voted no, we also need to take in to consideration those who abstained from voting. A lot of the Tatars didn't cast their ballots.

Only 3500 cases of who refused to become Russian citizenship, and 20000 who left Crimea for Ukraine.



2,05% is for sure less than 15%.

And Crimean Tartars are about 10.57%

Certain people still have difficulty in admitting the fact that Crimea will never become a part of Ukraine again. The better they come to their senses, that better. The only group which doesn't approve of the Russian rule in Crimea is the Tatars. And they are less than 15% of the population.

It should become free economic zone - like Macau in China

Well, considering that 98% of voters said yes to integration with Russia I don't understand how will Crimea return to Ukraine. If you mean by force, than you have to move those 2 milions people somewhere.