Topic: Cryptopia Cryptocurrency Platform Services and Development - page 28. (Read 173234 times)

Did owners get dividends or decide to get dividends when the plans for the liquidations are approaching so soon?

If dividends were not paid out, where is the money for those dividend payments now?

How will money for dividends be used? Who will use that money and for what? Who will decide about using that money?

How to return that dividend money and share it to the clients/traders/users (us) of the exchange?


Quote from upper link:

" Despite the growing pains and personality issues, Cryptopia, in March 2018, could look back on a phenomenal year.

The company had made $30m in trading fees, $8m in coin listings and $10m from staking income. Some of the income was in cryptocurrency. Operating expenses were running at $28m of which $640,000 had gone in charitable donations, $1.5m on security infrastructure, salaries of $1.2m, $500,000 on consultants and staff gifts of $57,000.

The company recorded paying dividends to the shareholders. On the books Clark and Dawson got about $2m each and Intranel received $1.9m. Both Clark and Dawson would later say they did not receive any money although that is disputed."

Thank you for the link. There were things mentioned in there I was not aware of. This is the first time I read about a company called Intranel and the fact they owned 25% of Cryptopia.

The next one is Chief Executive Alan Booth, I did not know about it, I thought the two of them (Adam Clark and Rob Dawson) were simply running it. And them allowing John Gotts (whoever he is/was I never heard that name) to make a proposal to buy their shares in Cryptopia for a combined $40 million - did they ever run a background check to see if he finances or contacts in place?

The link provides excellent background information but it also exposes the shambles at the time.

Lol I wonder how will the staff get their salary in confiscated scam shitcoins


Edit:

Thanks for the link, archived version is here: http://archive.is/bLijB

Sabotage or theft? Inside the $24m Cryptopia heist.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/119263192/sabotage-or-theft-inside-the-24m-cryptopia-heist

Would be interesting to get to the court and if its easy to get into the hearing, could be closed.

It would be interesting to learn about that. On the face of it, it makes sense for the people who were running Cryptopia to at the very least turn up to the hearing. That would be a sign of them accepting guilt or them admonishing responsibility - it would just be a step in the right direction which could be seen as a way to repair the damage and animosity the whole scandal has created between investors and the owners.

You would presume that even if the project team did not attend it would inconceivable that legal representatives from Grant Thornton would not be there. I hope someone can shed some light on what is going on there in the hearing.

Is anyone able to get along to the directions hearing to hear what the blow by blow discussion entails?  Would be interested to know who has turned up: Owners/Employees and or their legal representatives.

What janitors do to clean up the space?

_{startup dot nz ciao fintech}

Liquidators job algo is "more long, more worse" - for booth sides, and third parts, so guess which side on the loose

Why do many call it #crimechurch?  Do whatever you want, JC forgives all sins is their message. They twist the truth about God from the bible and JC when he said: "Don't think that I came to destroy the law or the prophets. I didn't come to destroy, but to fulfill." They made out of it: "do whatever you want, our God JC forgives all sins." The first thing the biggest criminal in history Adolf Hitler did when he was elected for chancellor, was making a contract with Pius from cristchurch on 20. Juli 1933, the first german statesman who did such a thing, what came out of it, unimagineable crimes. 

The NZ court needs to understand how serious its decision is; Because if the NZ court decides to let Cryptopia steal all the customers coins, then they will be losing possibly billions of dollars in tax revenue in the future when cryptocurrency becomes 1000 times bigger in 5 to 10 years.

Nobody will ever use a NZ exchange to store their cryptocurrency, and they'll cost the NZ government a lot of money in future tax revenue, and that will be a horrible precedent to be setting.

If they allow Cryptopia to steal the coins, they'll be telling cryptocurrency investors to stay away from New Zealand, because, if you leave your coins in a NZ exchange, they're as good as gone.

The NZ court must declare the coins as property, and held in individual trusts for each user, as outlined in the terms and conditions.

Then the court should give a short time frame for the liquidators to give back the coins. At most a month to secure the coins and allow customers to log in and withdraw them.

They should not let the liquidators hold the coins hostage until they have racked up sufficient ransom fees before they release the coins.

This is the same as terrorists taking a plane hostage and demanding ransom money before the passengers are let go.

Our coins are being held hostage by these liquidation terrorists and they are demanding a certain amount of ransom fees before they return the coins to the customers.

At the very worst users have to be considered unsecured creditors and would be above shareholders. Its going to be very interesting how the courts rule on the trust issue.

That's why its called white collar crime and these type of people get away easily after stealing money from their users. They will not will probably get anything out of cryptopia during the liquidation but all the coins they tuck away under their pillow are good as gone.

based on the updates,

Staffs get their salary first
Liquidators get theyre fair share of the loot
Creditors if any = All outstanding loan will be paid first
Shareholders
then lastly the blood and butter of cryotopia = USERS

Thanks Digit good write up.

Cant see how directors or shareholders will get anything out of this they'll be way down the list of payments. Customers have to be paid first if their balances are held in trust right?

I remember December 2017 - January 2018 - February 2018  Talking with Cryptopia Director and shareholder, INSIDE their office of the possibilities of them opening a technical center + customer center in London so they have with NZ a all day round customer support.
NZ is +12h with London.

What you say sounds very plausible as I heard plans from the own mouth of the directors.
Also, I read cover to cover the liquidator reports.
They are being charged $305 to $600/h for technical support, I wonder if it is this different company in England....

Ethically this wouldn't be very fair that they are charging to fix their own fuck up  with the money confiscated from unaffected users. 

At the time of the hack I had about 0.5btc worth of altcoins.

@digit

No problem about the text, it was no mess and made absolute good reading.

I did not know about the case in New Zealand but I do know Grant Thornton seem to be after as much as they can get for themselves. The negative press they have been receiving is warranted because it seems they have the means to help investors recoup part of their funds back but they are holding the power at the moment.

If approximately 9% of the funds were stolen in the alleged hack then it would mean a manner in which the whole thing could have been settled especially when some customers will not send KYC to Grant Thornton therefore will forfeit their funds which in-turn should be added to the payout kitty for those that did send KYC - just because Grant Thornton made it clear any payout would be based on a no-KYC no-payment basis.

So if the amount in question is around $300 million then surely Cryptopia owners/operators should be facing some sort of legal investigation for either their failure to prevent the hack through incompetence or for their complicity in it. At the moment I see nothing that was 100% eliminate the Cryptopia Team from suspicion.

Funds taken in hack were said by Cryptopia to be 9% of total assets they held (https://news.bitcoin.com/cryptopia-lost-almost-a-tenth-of-its-assets-in-january-hack/). they had not completed their audit and haircuts and had only done BTC, LTC and ETH by the time they decided to liquidate the company. As they also had many tokens including USDT and TUSD, the amount will likely be higher. But from what is already known BTC, LTC and ETH taken was worth about $25-30 million USD at the time, so then it can be estimated to be $200 to $300 million customers are at risk of losing now to the company based on the outcome of the upcoming high court case in New Zealand (https://twitter.com/cryptopia_nz/status/1217993284498251776).

Don't forget that the Cryptopia also reopened for short time before liquidation pretending they were serious about keeping the exchange alive but now it looks like they did this so they could apply a haircut to customer accounts which had the effect that it reduced significantly what customers had in their balance by the percentage they claimed was stolen by locking in what was owed to customers at an extremely low exchange value for those assets at that time (Bitcoin price was very near its lowest). They also are said to have used this an opportunity to apply a haircut greater than than what was taken in hack, and give themselves extra BTC to liquidate before and during the liquidation. Unlike every other exchange that gets hacked, Cryptopia never provided any details or provided the community with a balance of what remained post hack. The most they said was that it was 9% of total assets on their twitter account. They have never proved that the haircut matched what was taken, and have provided no TxIDs or audit results for the crypto community to verify.

I have heard that the amount of BTC taken in haircut was nearly twice what was taken in the hack, and then once the liquidation began only some weeks later is then considered to be company bitcoin by the liquidators who have ignored its origins. Remember that the haircuts that were BTC 14%, LTC 43%, and ETH 100%. Therefore if hack is only 7% of the BTC held, it is in the range of 500 BTC they paid themselves before liquidation (Before liquidation andpost hack Bitcoin seen moving to new wallets before reopening was over 7000BTC, after liquidation began Bitcoin linked to the Cryptopia main wallet that was seen moving to the liquidator wallets is over 5000 BTC (https://whale-alert.io/transaction/bitcoin/1a9c856019eb33154adc14b5d34637ef70ef16a5eaff2b33f2baaa25e0a3c53c), but might be much higher if they have other multiple bitcoin wallets or stored on other exchanges).

The liquidators have not said if the IOU token/loss marker "CLM" given in exchange for haircut will be recognized, but even if it is (unlikely), the Cryptopia customers still lose because after deduct the extra BTC Cryptopia took in haircut to pay themselves and the company, the CLM token is 1:1 $NZD based (and was converted at BTC price on the day of the hack when it was really low and at the bottom and is below half what the BTC price today or the year before)  The "company Bitcoin" probably been sold as well the other company property last year by the liquidators (https://beincrypto.com/cryptopia-starts-liquidating-assets-creditor-repayment-date-still-unknown/).  They need official declaration that customer cryptocurrency belongs to the company now so they can extract more money for other companies, directors, shareholders and staff that are owed. This is what the NZ High Court will rule on.

I also heard a rumor that they delayed going into liquidation so they could use an Australian crypto exchange to cash out some of this BTC haircut in the months before and then left the rest for their future liquidators to "find". But without some evidence or the liquidators investigating these rumors, this money is probably gone and the the "cherry on the top" for the directors and shareholders that will receive another big payout if the rest of the customer assets are allowed to be liquidated by Grant Thornton.

Also heard another rumor that there exist companies set up in the UK that were on paper were providing customer and technical support for Cryptopia but in reality did very little work are owned by the Cryptopia directors and shareholders but are as a separate legal entities are in the liquidators list of creditors to be paid huge sums of money that "owed" to them alongside the other companies, staff etc in that list, so these people will get to double and triple dip on the payout from liquidation!

Hopefully the NZ Court will understand that the $300 million in cryptocurrencies belong entirely to the Cryptopia customers. and that the company, its directors, shareholders and creditors are not entitled to any of it.

sorry for the mess of text, there were some chatrooms i was in that had mentioned some of this but I see that no one had posted much info in here from what had been shared. perhaps some sleuths in here can find something or someone else who knows can tell us something. It will be a sad day to see the crooks benefit further from the misery they have caused to so many people, if the court decides to awards them or other parties (hoster, staff, shell companies) they owe to what belongs to the customers.

Sorry to read about the way their scam has hit your finances. Imagine just how much the total investor loss would be. Does anybody have any ball-point figures?

me 0.07 BTC worth