Topic: Decentrally mined currency has failed so far (Read 11286 times)

More importantly, you can't pay it without hurting many more innocent people for generations into the future.

Yes it is. You still can't erase it without hurting innocent people.

even the strongest government lives in a situation of checks and balances against not only the people that are complicit in its bullshit system, but the other governments worldwide that exist and hold power.

Should classical government come to the conclusion that mining pools act as "Money Transmitting Businesses,"

there is effectively zero initiative and zero precedent for any governmental or intergovernmental agency to act upon it.

Mr. testicles (so hilariously named that if his testicles WERE made of this unusually heavy element they would almost instantaneously disintegrate, leaving him with zero malehood)

Many other arguments ("why are you posting on a forum instead of developing solutions"

"why are you responding and allowing insufficiently technical discussions to further increase your own intelligence and credibility when there are apparently critical issues to take care of")

also elude to his one-sided, egoistic view of the world.

You've given no incentive to comply with your lawgivers. Confiscation can be easily deterred by real world decoys. No hacker worth his salt will work for a dictator so their lackeys will be easily spoofed. Iron Gloves and Jack Boots are so 20th Century. Your criminal secret police will be exposed to the world and your trade will be tariffed, firewalled, or blockaded. Unless you can give a strong moral reason to regulate Bitcoin more than cash, you have no moral authority for your argument. Without moral authority, your people will rebel. America is already past that point and is shutting down. They don't even have the budget or manpower to shut down the criminal marijuana stores.

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Some of you think the tide is turning and the masses all over the world are waking up to the abuses of the USA government and other manifestations of the powers-that-be.

The greatest mistake anyone can make is to assume the majority will ever do the right thing. They never do. The majority is always wrong. If that were not the case, then evolution would stop functioning.

Any one who plans for the future based on hope in the system and the majority, is a sheeple cow and will prosper when society does and suffer when society does.

We westerners have experienced an amazingly long period of prosperity in the world and especially in the Western nations. This has been propped up by central banks which never allow any debt defaults to correct excesses and misallocations. Thus we've amassed a huge debt bubble that is going to pop with horrific implications on society-at-large.

The powers-that-be are well aware of how to manipulate this "awakening". As always, they turn idealism into fury and collective outcomes which empower their designs. They infiltrated the Black Panters during the Vietnam protest era. They helped to fuel the "free sex, free drugs" destruction of the boomers and western society. They were instrumental in the Bolshevik Revolution, etc.

They will unleash an economic implosion contagion, social unrest, violence, and upheaval. You will be so busy trying to survive all the crap that is hitting you in your daily life, that you won't have any time to sit down and produce anything. All your pontifications about you can do this and that, will fly out the window when you are too busy trying to avoid the daily violence and secure your food.

The growing hatred of the USA and the angst that will be spread, is fuel for the fire of burning the nation-state system to the ground, after which the weary burned out fury will welcome the one world governance savior to restore order.

The masses love chaos when they've been cooped up too long in a well controlled order. Let them fight for a while and grow weary then they will beg for order again and to be managed like the compliant sheeple they really are.

You are safe within the herd until the herd stampedes over a cliff or stampedes over you.

Because the majority are not leaders. The majority are sheeple and I think that includes you reader.

Yes it is. You still can't erase it without hurting innocent people.

I said it is much more likely they would just filter protocol of crypto-currency.

In the logic of escalation as needed, the threat of blackout I think would first be used to induce a country to comply.

See the distinction is the threat is something the national government can address by complying. Whereas, with the improvements I suggested, the government could not comply because the pools are anonymous.

If the powers-that-be blacked out a country that had tried to comply but couldn't possibly comply since technologically impossible, that would backfire.

I said it is much more likely they would just filter protocol of crypto-currency.

In the logic of escalation as needed, the threat of blackout I think would first be used to induce a country to comply.

See the distinction is the threat is something the national government can address by complying. Whereas, with the improvements I suggested, the government could not comply because the pools are anonymous.

If the powers-that-be blacked out a country that had tried to comply but couldn't possibly comply since technologically impossible, that would backfire.

I must be missing something.

What's the point of an altcoin if it could be blocked by government anyway - I mean, you seemed to be saying earlier that the US government could pull the plug on the internet backbone if things got desperate enough for them?

I hear what you're saying, but I just can't see it playing out like that.
"They" will have to have one hell of a propaganda machine to give
the masses Bitcoin while keeping them ignorant of the virtues of
decentralized networks, decentralized money, and everything that goes along with it.

Keeping the wool pulled over the eyes of the sheeple will be unsustainable.
But we can agree to disagree on that if you think otherwise.

By the way, what do you think of this article:

http://blog.oleganza.com/post/93767945708/bitcoin-is-not-compatible-with-the-state

You apparently don't understand how mining shares work? The hasher sends the share no matter how much below the required share difficulty, thus if low enough it is a block solution. The Secret only obfuscates (from the hasher's view) how far below the target difficulty the share is, but it doesn't change the fact that all the difficulty remains on the miners who are sending shares.

The secret doesn't partition the probability space.

• Every block will have 3 additional field associated with it – SecretSeed, ExtraHash and

SecretHash.

• ExtraHash must be the hash of SecretSeed.
• ExtraHash will be a part of the block header and will be one of the fields used in the

calculation of the block hash.

• SecretHash must be the hash of the concatenation of the block hash and SecretSeed
• For the block to be valid: Instead of requiring that the block hash is less than

2 256 /(2 32 D), it is required that the block hash is less than 2 256 /2 32 and that SecretHash
is less than 2 256 /D.
[/list]
The pool operator will choose SecretSeed and keep it secret. He will calculate ExtraHash and
provide it to miners along with the other fields that go into the block hash. The miners can
calculate the block hash and see if it is less than 2 256 /2 32 (which happens with probability
2 −32 ) and in this case submit it as a share. They do not know if this is a valid block
because they don’t know SecretSeed and cannot calculate SecretHash. The operator knows
SecretSeed, calculates SecretHash, and if it is less than 2 256 /D (with probability p) this is a
valid block and it is broadcast to the network.

I missed the fundamental issue here:

The Secret, which the hasher knows nothing about has the high-difficulty hash. The block contents, which is what we are trying to protect with PoW has the low-difficulty hash.

The proposal not only lets the mining pool ignore any hasher suggestions via getblocktemplate,

BTW, I was aware of what the Sybil attack was. As far as I know, there is no general way for P2P software to avoid it.

Would that be current debt that's built upon a fraud by any chance? 

I never advocated ignoring it. I am saying you can't unwind the existing debt with a magic wand and not hurt a lot of innocent people. You could try to abolish the Fed. That is not the same as erasing the current debt as you originally stated.

It took so long to get back to this.

The SecretSeed does not depend on the contents of the block[1]. Thus I don't see how it is incompatible with any modifications to the contents of the block.

[1] http://arxiv.org/pdf/1112.4980.pdf#page=29

For the block to be valid: Instead of requiring that the block hash is less than
2 256 /(2 32 D), it is required that the block hash is less than 2 256 /2 32 and that SecretHash
is less than 2 256 /D.