Topic: Decentrally mined currency has failed so far - page 5. (Read 11292 times)

Exactly what government department owns the internet cables?

What you may not appreciate is that if the USA withholds its internet and interconnection backbones to which it has control or can assert control, then the same as when the USA threatens foreign banks that it will withhold transfers, these foreign entities are forced by market realities to adhere to USA edicts.

This is why 77,000 firms abroad willingly agreed to comply with FATCA.

So if you have some fantasy about being able to avoid the long-arm of the reach of the USA control, I don't know on what precedent you base it?

I hope you are aware of recent news that the NSA taps all the international backbones. What country wants to be shut off from the rest of the internet? Brazil is building an undersea cable to Portugal. And how long do you think it would take for the USA military to destroy that cable when the hot wars begin? I bet they can find a way to blame it on Russia or terrorists, as they did to the airline that was shot down over Ukraine.

Again I remind you that European authorities were involved in the recent crackdown on Tor hidden services:

Where will the gubbermint get the bitcoins to enforce these laws? You think soldiers will work for dollars? I think you have it the other way around. Perhaps it will be miners that take the place of central banks in deciding financial policies. I doubt either extreme is likely.

Which governments edict? US-government?
You just don't get, that there isn't just one government, do you?

One more reason if you have a large ASIC rig you will mine on the approved pools because that is where the most transactions and revenue will be, because the sheeple will surely follow the government edicts.

So, if I want to cross borders with mining equipment it will get seized?

You just showed pretty well, what a arrogant US-American you are.
What is "the last time your socialism peaked and collapsed into hell" even supposed to mean? I mean seriously, US-education on history isn't really known for being accurate about things that happened outside of US.
But sure, believe that your country is all-powerfull and can force whatever they want on everybody, because your country is doing so damn well.

turvarya, are you not aware of all the seizures of cash and gold of Europeans crossing borders?

It is not an assumption. It is a well researched fact that there is no adequate IP anonymization available to your average person that will reasonable to use. Of course you can sometimes be anonymous by finding a Wifi that doesn't know you identity (and hope there is not a hidden cam around catching your face or license plate and hope your car or cell phone isn't tracking you), but this is certainly not a reasonable option for running a mining rig (and certainly not an ASIC farm!), and not even reasonable for sending txs, because I've tried that. It is so fucking inconvenient that you end up making mistakes or saying "fuck it".

I warned for a long time that Tor is subject to Sybil attack and also timing analysis. Now this is being confirmed.

And if you have a large ASIC farm, you are not going to risk your investment on stupid hair brained, half-ass anonymity experiments. If the government has shown it is serious, you are going to comply. The few rogue cowboys will be hunted down to show everyone they better not dare risk it.

Kim Dotcom didn't really break any laws, so he can't be extradited. Try breaking some AML and KYC laws and see how fast New Zealand will jail your ass.  Because if government gives up its power over money any where, they lose their authority to tax and govern and exist.


They got AML and KYC laws (and underwear patdown, shoes off through the Xray searches) implemented every where. I lived in the Philippines since the 1990s, and they never asked for an ID for sending cash money remittances, now I need 3 fucking ids just turn on internet connection or cable TV.

What the hell is wrong with being paranoid and safe now rather than "too late and screwed" later?


You'd have to be fucking blind to not see it.

But frogs boil in the pot if the heat is turned up slowly enough. So don't feel bad, you won't even realize what happened to you.


How ignorant is it to be ignorant of repeating history and how this shit goes down every damn time?

Have you Europeans forgotten what a hell in an authoritarian megadeath handbasket your place was the last time your socialism peaked and collapsed into hell?

P.S. Hollande didn't call for the nationalization of the internet and taxing bandwidth. His party wasn't recently elected with 75% of the vote. Obama didn't follow with hiding behind net neutrality bullshit so he can tax the internet and control the ISPs as a public utilities under the FCC. Obama hasn't received a lot of support on this forum for that. Nevermind the delusional rants, just carry on on your lilypad on the other side of the pond.

And again there is this big assumption, that nobody can anonymize their IP.
There is also that big assumption, that "they" can confiscate equipment everywhere.
There is the assumption that "they" can forbid mining outside of regulated pools everywhere on this planet.
Is there even any evidence, that "they" are trying that?

And how is it not ignorant to take examples from the USA and just assume they will happen everywhere else.
Show me the examples of "crazy Civil Forfeiture seizures" in the EU.

Try rereading the posts where we talk about confiscation of mining equipment if it isn't used to mine on the approved pools and if there is not adequate IP anonymization to hide your mining equipment.

What happens when you as a citizen try to avoid AML and KYC laws? Have you reviewed the penalties for money laundering?

Don't expect the government to be reasonable. Review some of the crazy Civil Forfeiture seizures. The powers-that-be were really wicked. They let the police keep the seized goods, thus police have become corrupted and it is like a drug. They now need more and more seizures to feed all the additional expenditures they've scheduled due to the increase in income from seizures.

The powers-that-be will incentivize the authorities all over the world to become thieves.

This is the sort of decadence that was the demise of Western Rome and every other empire. We should expect to see massive corruption at the top of the world's largest ever global debt bubble.

Even ignorance is at all time high. If you guys are not awake, do you really think the masses are waking up? No! They are just getting restless. But they have no clue how and what to really be restless against. Their angst will be directed by the powers-that-be. It is always like this. Even the French Revolution ended up supporting the authoritarian outcome of Napoleon. People can't lead themselves and they can't be decentralized. Never.

Stop with your silly "decentralization is a magic cure for human nature" and franky1's "decentralization implements itself spontaneously out of thin air so relax no changes please" fantasies. The best we can hope for is a benevolent leader. And a modicum of useful decentralization such that killing the leader doesn't destroy the positive technological advance.

Great technological advance never comes from a group. It comes from leadership and individual innovation. However, great leaders can sometimes work together, or they can work with great sidekicks. And group feedback and input is always useful. And the group is good at spotting outliers such as bugs and missed cases, i.e. groups (open source) are (is) very useful for refinement.

How are mining pools not a whackamole-game?
I don't get, why so many people are talking about pools, like they actually have the hashrate. They just don't. Like a site, like ThePirateBay doesn't have the files on their servers, but the files are om individual PC around the world, the hashrate is not on a pool, but on individual PCs/Asic around the world.
You just assume, that people would stay on a government controlled pool, but there is just no reason, why they should.

Did you hang out with Art Bell when he lived in the Philippines?

Wait I will dig up the math to be sure. I will go eat first outside, reply when I return.

All of the above. They already submit to the structure of the powers-that-be versus the people. That is the modus operandi of government.

Of course many of you will think this is crazy, until it is too late already and then it is evident. So then in depression and realizing you are fucked and have no way out, you take your Fukitol pill and be a zombie.

If decentralization is broken, then what is it? Duh! (centralization) Semantics is apparently another of your strong capabilities.

When the thesis is broken it is its antithesis.


I am precisely talking about how to enable decentralization to work. You are fighting against by asserting that the broken aspects in the Bitcoin protocol and the available broken anonymization technology is sufficient.


Do you mean 0-confirmation transactions? And exactly how will you protect yourself against a government driven double-spend attack against those providers who accept 0-confirmations?


If you are referring to 10-30 minutes transactions I experienced with Localbitcoins and Bitpay, then sorry that is not fast enough to win the market. People will prefer to use off chain for immediacy (and consistency of the delay).

I lost entire fucking afternoons registering domains with Bitcoin. Sucks! Twiddling my thumbs. Add Tor to the mix over a slow 3G dongle for anonymity and I blew out entire days of what would normally take me 2 minutes to accomplish.

Fuck that! People will use off chain and they are in increasing numbers.


Because you say so? You will eat those foolish words.


You are really foolish. Just continue with that nonsense. You are not anonymous even you imagine you are. I am not going to bother to explain to you how that is de-anonymized. It is a homework assignment for you.


The point (since you can't read) is I wrote they can't "download the client and mine". A CPU is useless. You have no marketing sense to understand how a CPU coin can involve millions in instant gratification. But they need something to spend it on, otherwise there is no reason for them to. If you want decentralization, you must have the users mining, not just using it via Paypal and Coinbase.

And yes I know that every algorithm can be put on an ASIC. And I have a solution for that.

Bitcoin has no hope of achieving that. Absolutely zero chance.


Nonsense again. None of the users will be mining. They will all be sheeple and thus easy to fold into regulation.


Again you don't see your logic error! I am so tired of talking to you. You don't even think things out before you write.

I guess you don't understand that without anonymity of IP, then the IP connection from the source server at the physical location of the mining farm is also seen by the authorities as connecting to the server in NY. You can't hide from the national security agencies just because your physical farm is in Japan or wherever.
 

Because you are a good follower member of the sheeple.

As I understand it, the secret can be an arbitrary length: that is the whole point of a hash function.
With oblivious shares, block manipulations possible with getblocktemplate are impossible: since a hashed header implies a read-only block.

Who is "They?" America? Russia?, China? Will they all submit to your imaginary authority?

I hear what you're saying, but I just can't see it playing out like that.
"They" will have to have one hell of a propaganda machine to give
the masses Bitcoin while keeping them ignorant of the virtues of
decentralized networks, decentralized money, and everything that goes along with it.

Keeping the wool pulled over the eyes of the sheeple will be unsustainable.
But we can agree to disagree on that if you think otherwise.

By the way, what do you think of this article:

http://blog.oleganza.com/post/93767945708/bitcoin-is-not-compatible-with-the-state

I believe oblivious shares can be implemented using a public hash of the block data. The secret can be independent of the compilation of the contents of the block.