Author

Topic: DefaultTrust changes - page 105. (Read 86349 times)

hero member
Activity: 1498
Merit: 614
Liable for what i say, not for what you understand
January 18, 2019, 07:06:57 PM
One of the things that I would like to alert people to is the danger of removing some of the old DTs from the list.
For instance when Lauda was removed from the old list there were numerous scammers that suddenly were untagged. This worried me.

I agree, this is important, and I think to make it work with this new dynamic DT list, all actual and future DT members should keep tagging even if other DT members already tagged that user, in that way if the DT list changes, that scammer would still be red painted eventually.
legendary
Activity: 1288
Merit: 1926
฿ear ride on the rainbow slide
January 18, 2019, 06:03:12 PM

A major goal of this is to allow retaliatory distrusts and ratings to actually have some chance of mattering so that contentious ratings have an actual cost. If someone is obviously scamming, then any retaliatory rating should not last long due to the DT1 "voting", but if you negative-rate someone for generally disliking them, then their retaliation against you may stick. In borderline cases, it should result in something of a political battle.

This is inspired partly by something that David Friedman said once (though I can't find the quote), that one of the requirements for a peaceful society is the credible threat of retaliation in case you are harmed. As DT was organized previously, one or both sides of a dispute was usually unable to effectively retaliate to a rating, at least via the trust system itself. Now your ability to effectively retaliate will tend to increase as you become more established in the community, which should discourage abuse generally. (Or that's the idea, at least.)

All that being said, I still discourage retaliatory ratings, and with these changes I encourage people to try to "bury the hatchet" and de-escalate rather than trying to use any increased retaliatory power you now have. Also, it's best to make your own custom list, and you must do this if you want to be on DT1.

I am never completely tied to anything, but let's try this for at least a few months and see how it works.

I feel that we are all part of Theymos "ant-farm " experiment.

The unfortunate part of the trust system is that it holds political and potential scam power.

For this reason I think it would be good to create a list of values that the majority on the DT list would like to maintain.

It is interesting that while the list was created as a trust list it appears that distrust is more important.

One of the things that I would like to alert people to is the danger of removing some of the old DTs from the list.

For instance when Lauda was removed from the old list there were numerous scammers that suddenly were untagged. This worried me.

Having a charter of what is acceptable and what is unacceptable will bring both discussion and some agreement.

I feel the idea of the new DT system is to have more eyes and ears out there fighting scams.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 3000
Terminated.
January 18, 2019, 05:28:18 PM
Currently, I noticed with myself that I can only go to depth level 2 when using hierarchical view.  If I try to view either depth level 3 or 4 on hierarchical view, then I get a loading error (the page will not load).  Maybe too much data if viewed on depth level 3 or 4?
Yes, I found that too.
Yeah, I did a bunch of testing with trust before the DT changes. I assume that with the massively increased number of DefaultTrust members, depth 3 has already exceeded the threshold.
It's a sign that we already have too many people in there. I can't imagine how it's going to be later if it keeps increasing a lot. You'd probably be able to do all sorts of nasty stuff for quite some time before someone picks up on it (assuming you stay hidden in the trash sections).
copper member
Activity: 2562
Merit: 2510
Spear the bees
January 18, 2019, 05:26:03 PM
Currently, I noticed with myself that I can only go to depth level 2 when using hierarchical view.  If I try to view either depth level 3 or 4 on hierarchical view, then I get a loading error (the page will not load).  Maybe too much data if viewed on depth level 3 or 4?
Yes, I found that too.
Yeah, I did a bunch of testing with trust before the DT changes. I assume that with the massively increased number of DefaultTrust members, depth 3 has already exceeded the threshold.
legendary
Activity: 1932
Merit: 1737
"Common rogue from Russia with a bare ass."
January 18, 2019, 12:21:39 PM
Currently, I noticed with myself that I can only go to depth level 2 when using hierarchical view.  If I try to view either depth level 3 or 4 on hierarchical view, then I get a loading error (the page will not load).  Maybe too much data if viewed on depth level 3 or 4?

Yes, I found that too.
legendary
Activity: 3962
Merit: 11519
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
January 18, 2019, 12:16:35 PM
Get this confirmed by someone that knows what they're talking about before you go and paint the town red  Wink

You are correct. You can also double check by going to any profile you have left trust to, switching to default trust view by adding ";dt" at the end of the URL, and seeing if your name appears under the "Trusted feedback" section. Example: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=911719;dt

I thought that when you go to hierarchical (which is the same as putting ";full" on the end of the url) view on your trust settings and then you perform a find of your name on that page (ctrl f or command f), then you will see all mentions of your name which would show both inclusions and exclusions by other members.  Currently, I noticed with myself that I can only go to depth level 2 when using hierarchical view.  If I try to view either depth level 3 or 4 on hierarchical view, then I get a loading error (the page will not load).  Maybe too much data if viewed on depth level 3 or 4?
legendary
Activity: 1344
Merit: 1251
January 18, 2019, 10:36:09 AM
But yes, to answer the question, you need to add them manually.

Thank you.
legendary
Activity: 3948
Merit: 3191
Leave no FUD unchallenged
January 18, 2019, 10:20:50 AM
There are other people not on the list that I trust or distrust but I've left them a feedback (positive or negative). Do I have to add them manually or are they automatically counted as trusted or excluded if I made a feedback?

Feedback doesn't always correlate to overall trust.  If you made a successful trade with someone and left them positive feedback, it doesn't necessarily mean you agree with the feedback they've left other people.  You should include or exclude users based on the feedback they leave, who they have added to their own trust list and, in general, the judgement and reasoning they demonstrate in their encounters with other users.

But yes, to answer the question, you need to add them manually.
legendary
Activity: 1344
Merit: 1251
January 18, 2019, 10:12:14 AM
Hellooooooooo

I got a small question. I finally made a personnal trustlist. It's a start:

Code:
theymos
~TECSHARE
Vod
~cryptohunter
TMAN
hilariousandco
suchmoon
LoyceV
krogothmanhattan

There are other people not on the list that I trust or distrust but I've left them a feedback (positive or negative). Do I have to add them manually or are they automatically counted as trusted or excluded if I made a feedback?

Thanks in advance!
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 18775
January 18, 2019, 06:35:54 AM
Get this confirmed by someone that knows what they're talking about before you go and paint the town red  Wink

You are correct. You can also double check by going to any profile you have left trust to, switching to default trust view by adding ";dt" at the end of the URL, and seeing if your name appears under the "Trusted feedback" section. Example: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=911719;dt
legendary
Activity: 1932
Merit: 1737
"Common rogue from Russia with a bare ass."
January 18, 2019, 06:32:05 AM
This has probably been asked a dozen times before, but i am wondering where i can see who included/excluded me in their trust lists. Is this even possible?

Best i can find is; https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;dtview

but that only shows DT1 (?)

If you go here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;full;dt then (to me) you appear included on Dark Star_ list with a net (1) rating which puts you on DT2.
Get this confirmed by someone that knows what they're talking about before you go and paint the town red  Wink



Edit after o_e_l_e_o's reply
Although I don't think that exactly answers your question; I know of no way to check whether you or I or anyone is included or excluded by members who are not currently on DT and therefore currently don't "matter".
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 18775
January 18, 2019, 06:09:57 AM
Worth mentioning that this tool is based on the trust dump (available here: https://bitcointalk.org/trust.txt.xz) which is updated once a week on Saturday. So that tool shows the state of the trust network as of last Saturday, and any change made since then (which is probably quite a lot) will not be reflected until the new trust dump tomorrow.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 3000
Terminated.
January 18, 2019, 06:07:46 AM
This has probably been asked a dozen times before, but i am wondering where i can see who included/excluded me in their trust lists. Is this even possible?

Best i can find is; https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;dtview

but that only shows DT1 (?)
Use this: https://fusiontables.google.com/data?docid=1juCTvnPsvC4ZQqJsYp3DAPrpjJKKK2JE6TTYtTB6#rows:id=1
legendary
Activity: 2436
Merit: 2228
Signature space for rent
January 18, 2019, 06:05:56 AM
but that only shows DT1 (?)

Exactly. There are only DT1 ratings.

You can find here for all view who have exclude or include you :  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;full it's real time update.
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1427
January 18, 2019, 06:03:25 AM
This has probably been asked a dozen times before, but i am wondering where i can see who included/excluded me in their trust lists. Is this even possible?

Best i can find is; https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;dtview

but that only shows DT1 (?)
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1491
I forgot more than you will ever know.
January 18, 2019, 03:44:34 AM
All good and well in a closed community - but as soon as they venture outside of the local sections then it is a free for all, especially when as in the case of the Russian section they are excluding the most prolific trust senders on the forum. I would love to back some of the local sections that are not represented on DT-2 and have started a thread for it in Rep https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/dt-1-looking-for-local-language-posters-to-add-to-my-trust-list-5098962

I hear you!

Really nice initiative. Will have a look.

just wanted to give some feedback that it worked out pretty well in the french & german sections (in my opinion at least).
legendary
Activity: 1414
Merit: 1808
Exchange Bitcoin quickly-https://blockchain.com.do
January 18, 2019, 03:08:41 AM
that is the intended behavior of the new system!

That's kinda why I answered this to TMAN Wink

All good and well in a closed community - but as soon as they venture outside of the local sections then it is a free for all, especially when as in the case of the Russian section they are excluding the most prolific trust senders on the forum. I would love to back some of the local sections that are not represented on DT-2 and have started a thread for it in Rep https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/dt-1-looking-for-local-language-posters-to-add-to-my-trust-list-5098962 - I totally understand how own trust lists are so important, but its the newbies who will get taken advantage of if its not handled correctly.
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1491
I forgot more than you will ever know.
January 18, 2019, 03:05:19 AM
that is the intended behavior of the new system!

That's kinda why I answered this to TMAN Wink
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 3000
Terminated.
January 18, 2019, 03:00:34 AM
Not sure about other languages but the new system automatically made a few German and french members part of DT (myself included).

Communities should build their own list and "make" their own DTs.
As long as you don't try to collude or abuse it in any way, that is the intended behavior of the new system!
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1491
I forgot more than you will ever know.
January 18, 2019, 02:58:58 AM
Not sure about other languages but the new system automatically made a few German and french members part of DT (myself included).

Communities should build their own list and "make" their own DTs.
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