Author

Topic: DefaultTrust changes - page 118. (Read 86349 times)

sr. member
Activity: 742
Merit: 395
I am alive but in hibernation.
January 14, 2019, 08:52:20 AM
Code:
~snip list~
At least 6 users are banned:
Code:
979216: RuSS512
925926: gawlea
227450: identifyuser
915311: mstfprcn
944905: saulzaents
1331637: zentdex
Some of them are still included, only one still includes another user:
Code:
mstfprcn->Kubra Dam

@theymos: should the custom trust list of a banned user be deleted? If I understand correctly, their existing inclusions still count towards voting.

Look Like LoyceV forget ATMcoin  in list who is also banned.

I do not think satoshi will be coming to vote.

These 2 should be blacklisted from DT eligible list as well as voting too.
Apja94
pitipawn

legendary
Activity: 2240
Merit: 3150
₿uy / $ell ..oeleo ;(
January 14, 2019, 08:43:16 AM
Relatively new users put in their trust list those who have interactions with.
I just started my list and it's far from being ready, so I've added those whom I know well and I feel OK to add them. Looking through the other people's (DTs) lists, I see users I never heard of, or never saw ( or at least remembered with something) so they are quite unknown to me. I'll share some free time to check them, but this is a long term process.

I'm sure I'm not the only one in this situation. Regarding SaltySpitoon I've crossed some of his posts, but I'm not so familiar with the user.
 
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
January 14, 2019, 08:31:08 AM
I like LoyceV just fine but 6X as many votes as SaltySpitoon? lol no..
If you put it like this, it is weird indeed. For what it's worth, I have SaltySpitoon in my trust list.

Quote
I think the DT1 list would be nice with around 50 members on it anyway..
Just a thought: what if theymos pickes a number for DT1, and adjusts the requirements on the fly in order to reach that amount?

Another thought:
At the moment a relatively new user can be voted into DT1. Isn't it better to require at least some time on DT2 (or even DT3) first, so that others can judge how the user is doing?
legendary
Activity: 2296
Merit: 2271
BTC or BUST
January 14, 2019, 08:18:21 AM
Nothing about them. If you're excluded, you're excluded.

As it was before a person needed more inclusions than exclusions by 10 [or 9? to have (0)].

Now any single 1 exclusion is the final answer? Whose exclusion counts first?


legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 3000
Terminated.
January 14, 2019, 08:13:47 AM
I think the DT1 list would be nice with around 50 members on it anyway..
At that point abuse would be somewhat noticeable and keeping track of every DT2 will be difficult.

I like LoyceV just fine but 6X as many votes as SaltySpitoon? lol no..
Is LoyceV 6X more trusted to make good votes than SaltySpitoon?
These votes have nothing to do with how trusted someone is. Stop confusing concepts.

Does the algorithm decide "most useful" before taking into account how many exclusions a member must overcome to stay on DT1 or after?
Exclusions are processed at the very end.
That is no good IMO..
What about all the extra votes someone needs to overcome rivals exclusions?
Nothing about them. If you're excluded, you're excluded.
legendary
Activity: 2296
Merit: 2271
BTC or BUST
January 14, 2019, 08:09:15 AM
This loos like quite a step backwards in terms of decentralization.
Given the previous size of the DT list, it really isn't.

To reduce the size of the DT1 list it could easily have been changed to 30 10 merit votes and 5 100 merit votes or something rather than greatly centralizing voting power.

I get the 10 merit standard, 100 merit standard, even the 250 merit standard, but anything over 500 merits is rediculous and depends too much on where you post, what you post about, and who your friends are..

I like LoyceV just fine but 6X as many votes as SaltySpitoon? lol no..
Is LoyceV 6X more trusted to make good votes than SaltySpitoon?

I think the DT1 list would be nice with around 50 members on it anyway..

Does the algorithm decide "most useful" before taking into account how many exclusions a member must overcome to stay on DT1 or after?
Exclusions are processed at the very end.

That is no good IMO..
What about all the extra votes someone needs to overcome rival exclusions?
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 3000
Terminated.
January 14, 2019, 07:53:24 AM
This loos like quite a step backwards in terms of decentralization.
Given the previous size of the DT list, it really isn't.

Does the algorithm decide "most useful" before taking into account how many exclusions a member must overcome to stay on DT1 or after?
Exclusions are processed at the very end.
legendary
Activity: 2296
Merit: 2271
BTC or BUST
January 14, 2019, 07:45:46 AM
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
January 14, 2019, 07:29:47 AM
Yes, true, and where the user Veleor?
Piggy uses theymos' Merit data dump, which updates on Friday. Veleor didn't have 250 Merit earned yet last Friday. By now he would have 1 vote.
sr. member
Activity: 952
Merit: 452
Check your coin privilege
January 14, 2019, 07:29:27 AM

G = (U, V, E) is a bipartite graph with edges from the left side, U, to the right side, V. There are N vertices in U and M vertices in V. A "capacity" function c: U -> Z is defined for every vertex in U. A constant integer "target value" T exists.

Candidate solutions are subgraphs S = (US, VS, ES) of G satisfing the following requirements:
 1. For each vertex u in US, the number of edges attached to u must be less than or equal to c(u).
 2. For each vertex v in VS, the number of edges attached to v must be greater than or equal to T.
 
Find an S such that the number of vertices in VS is maximal.

Example:


Note that this graph is depicted as directed, but that doesn't actually matter.

Note:

 - To satisfy requirement #1, you must exclude at least two of (u1, v1) or (u1, v3) or (u1, v4).
 - To satisfy requirement #1, you must exclude at least one of (u2, v1) or (u2, v2).
 - To satisfy requirement #1, you must exclude at least one of (u3, v1), (u3, v2) or (u3, v3)
 - To satisfy requirement #2, you must exclude at least v4 (since it cannot possibly get T=2 edges), and possibly more depending on the rest of S.

In a very naïve greedy algorithm, you might just fill up vertices on the right from top to bottom until you can't do anything else. That'd give a candidate solution of:
(u1, v1)
(u2, v1)
This is a valid candidate solution, but it's non-optimal because it includes only 1 vertex in V whereas 2 are possible. In order to achieve an optimal solution, you need some backtracking, at least. In this case there are two equally-good optimal solutions:
(u1, v3)
(u3, v3)
(u2, v2)
(u3, v2)
or:
(u1, v1)
(u3, v3)
(u2, v2)
(u3, v2)

It becomes more complicated as the graph gets bigger.

Writing it down in this way reminds me a lot of the stable marriage problem, which gives me hope that it can be solved exactly.

Two more questions :

M (number of V vertices) is not given right? We have the number of u vertices, their capacity, and T the constant, and our solution is finding the vectors (u,v) that satisfy the requirements with the maximum number possible of v vertices?

Typo on your end in the 2nd optimal solution? I figure you meant either v1 or v3 for one of those vectors?

----------

And where the user chimk?

Yes, true, and where the user Veleor?

Can you stop?
legendary
Activity: 1414
Merit: 1808
Exchange Bitcoin quickly-https://blockchain.com.do
January 14, 2019, 07:26:23 AM
-snip-
As of this morning, I now get 4 votes. Tongue

@theymos: should the custom trust list of a banned user be deleted? If I understand correctly, their existing inclusions still count towards voting.
I think that would be sensible, not just as a punishment for being banned, but also so we don't see an ever increasing number of abandoned accounts with static trust lists. If a well trusted member goes rogue, we could be in a situation where we are permanently relying on other DT1 exclusions to keep them off DT1 thanks to unmaintained trust lists.

Yes, can't understand why it isn't active already - if someone is eligible but banned by the rest of DT1 then surely there votes are redundant
member
Activity: 193
Merit: 70
January 14, 2019, 07:21:20 AM
And where the user chimk?
His 100 airdropped Merit doesn't count as "earned".

Yes, true, and where the user Veleor?
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 18775
January 14, 2019, 07:14:20 AM
-snip-
As of this morning, I now get 4 votes. Tongue

@theymos: should the custom trust list of a banned user be deleted? If I understand correctly, their existing inclusions still count towards voting.
I think that would be sensible, not just as a punishment for being banned, but also so we don't see an ever increasing number of abandoned accounts with static trust lists. If a well trusted member goes rogue, we could be in a situation where we are permanently relying on other DT1 exclusions to keep them off DT1 thanks to unmaintained trust lists.
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
January 14, 2019, 07:13:41 AM
And where the user chimk?
His 100 airdropped Merit doesn't count as "earned".
member
Activity: 193
Merit: 70
January 14, 2019, 07:11:43 AM
- You must have at least 2 people directly trusting you with an earned merit of at least 250, not including merit you yourself sent. These "votes" are limited.

since this part it's quite significant, this is a list of the people which can "vote" and the number of votes they have at their disposal at the moment (144 users):

Code:
13	theymos
6 LoyceV
6 satoshi
5 DdmrDdmr
5 The Pharmacist
5 hilariousetc
5 micgoossens
5 suchmoon
4 Last of the V8s
3 Jet Cash
3 Lutpin
3 Piggy
3 Vod
3 achow101
3 gmaxwell
3 nullius
3 o_e_l_e_o
3 xhomerx10
3 xtraelv
2 BobLawblaw
2 HCP
2 HairyMaclairy
2 Hhampuz
2 JayJuanGee
2 Lauda
2 OgNasty
2 TMAN
2 abhiseshakana
2 bitmover
2 bob123
2 coinlocket$
2 iasenko
2 infofront
2 jojo69
2 joniboini
2 krogothmanhattan
2 marlboroza
2 mole0815
2 qwk
2 theyoungmillionaire
1 1Referee
1 1miau
1 ATMcoin
1 Ajpa94
1 Alex_Sr
1 AlyattesLydia
1 BTCforJoe
1 BitCryptex
1 Carlton Banks
1 Claymore
1 Coding Enthusiast
1 Coolcryptovator
1 DannyHamilton
1 DarkStar_
1 ETFbitcoin
1 Elwar
1 Flying Hellfish
1 Foxpup
1 GameKyuubi
1 Goran_
1 HagssFIN
1 Hal
1 HeRetiK
1 Husna QA
1 ICOEthics
1 LFC_Bitcoin
1 Lafu
1 LeGaulois
1 Limx Dev
1 Matthias9515
1 PHI1618
1 QuestionAuthority
1 RichDaniel
1 RuSS512
1 SaltySpitoon
1 Smart man
1 Steamtyme
1 TheQuin
1 Torque
1 Toxic2040
1 TryNinja
1 Tukang Becak
1 Welsh
1 Xal0lex
1 Xynerise
1 actmyname
1 alex bond
1 arulbero
1 asche
1 athanz88
1 bill gator
1 bitserve
1 bones261
1 buwaytress
1 by rallier
1 d5000
1 d_eddie
1 deeperx
1 eddie13
1 esmanthra
1 explorder
1 fine99
1 franky1
1 gawlea
1 gentlemand
1 hilariousandco
1 hugeblack
1 ibminer
1 identifyuser
1 kenzawak
1 kirreev070
1 mdayonliner
1 mfort312
1 minerjones
1 mithrim
1 mocacinno
1 morvillz7z
1 mprep
1 mstfprcn
1 mu_enrico
1 nullCoiner
1 pandukelana2712
1 paxmao
1 philipma1957
1 pitipawn
1 pooya87
1 poptop
1 pugman
1 romanornr
1 roycilik
1 sabotag3x
1 saulzaents
1 seoincorporation
1 shorena
1 sidehack
1 sncc
1 stompix
1 taikuri13
1 tonych
1 vit05
1 vlad230
1 yahoo62278
1 zazarb
1 zentdex

And where the user chimk?
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
January 14, 2019, 06:42:10 AM
Code:
~snip list~
At least 6 users are banned:
Code:
979216: RuSS512
925926: gawlea
227450: identifyuser
915311: mstfprcn
944905: saulzaents
1331637: zentdex
Some of them are still included, only one still includes another user:
Code:
mstfprcn->Kubra Dam

@theymos: should the custom trust list of a banned user be deleted? If I understand correctly, their existing inclusions still count towards voting.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1416
January 14, 2019, 06:30:18 AM
- You must have at least 2 people directly trusting you with an earned merit of at least 250, not including merit you yourself sent. These "votes" are limited.

since this part it's quite significant, this is a list of the people which can "vote" and the number of votes they have at their disposal at the moment (144 users):

Code:
13	theymos
6 LoyceV
6 satoshi
5 DdmrDdmr
5 The Pharmacist
5 hilariousetc
5 micgoossens
5 suchmoon
4 Last of the V8s
3 Jet Cash
3 Lutpin
3 Piggy
3 Vod
3 achow101
3 gmaxwell
3 nullius
3 o_e_l_e_o
3 xhomerx10
3 xtraelv
2 BobLawblaw
2 HCP
2 HairyMaclairy
2 Hhampuz
2 JayJuanGee
2 Lauda
2 OgNasty
2 TMAN
2 abhiseshakana
2 bitmover
2 bob123
2 coinlocket$
2 iasenko
2 infofront
2 jojo69
2 joniboini
2 krogothmanhattan
2 marlboroza
2 mole0815
2 qwk
2 theyoungmillionaire
1 1Referee
1 1miau
1 ATMcoin
1 Ajpa94
1 Alex_Sr
1 AlyattesLydia
1 BTCforJoe
1 BitCryptex
1 Carlton Banks
1 Claymore
1 Coding Enthusiast
1 Coolcryptovator
1 DannyHamilton
1 DarkStar_
1 ETFbitcoin
1 Elwar
1 Flying Hellfish
1 Foxpup
1 GameKyuubi
1 Goran_
1 HagssFIN
1 Hal
1 HeRetiK
1 Husna QA
1 ICOEthics
1 LFC_Bitcoin
1 Lafu
1 LeGaulois
1 Limx Dev
1 Matthias9515
1 PHI1618
1 QuestionAuthority
1 RichDaniel
1 RuSS512
1 SaltySpitoon
1 Smart man
1 Steamtyme
1 TheQuin
1 Torque
1 Toxic2040
1 TryNinja
1 Tukang Becak
1 Welsh
1 Xal0lex
1 Xynerise
1 actmyname
1 alex bond
1 arulbero
1 asche
1 athanz88
1 bill gator
1 bitserve
1 bones261
1 buwaytress
1 by rallier
1 d5000
1 d_eddie
1 deeperx
1 eddie13
1 esmanthra
1 explorder
1 fine99
1 franky1
1 gawlea
1 gentlemand
1 hilariousandco
1 hugeblack
1 ibminer
1 identifyuser
1 kenzawak
1 kirreev070
1 mdayonliner
1 mfort312
1 minerjones
1 mithrim
1 mocacinno
1 morvillz7z
1 mprep
1 mstfprcn
1 mu_enrico
1 nullCoiner
1 pandukelana2712
1 paxmao
1 philipma1957
1 pitipawn
1 pooya87
1 poptop
1 pugman
1 romanornr
1 roycilik
1 sabotag3x
1 saulzaents
1 seoincorporation
1 shorena
1 sidehack
1 sncc
1 stompix
1 taikuri13
1 tonych
1 vit05
1 vlad230
1 yahoo62278
1 zazarb
1 zentdex
legendary
Activity: 3556
Merit: 7011
Top Crypto Casino
January 14, 2019, 06:02:44 AM
Gotta respect the effort involved.
Word.  The mathematics makes my eyes twitch, but I'll trust that Theymos is doing his best and that the math-oriented folks on the forum know what he's doing.  I'll have to wait for the dumbed-down version thread where someone explains it with a picture (lol) that's on the level of a McDonald's menu for people who can't read.

Props to you, Theymos.  You've obviously put a lot of thought into this and I respect that greatly.
legendary
Activity: 1344
Merit: 1251
January 14, 2019, 05:54:31 AM
Nice work, although I believe that the number of people that will understand the process will drop by over 90%. Cheesy

I confirm.

What the hell is going on? Previous system was ok to understand but here...
Though it's not a bad thing because it means only people actually caring about DT will take the time to understand it.

If I understood correctly though the idea would be to flat out votes in order to get the biggest possible DT1?
Shouldn't be the other way around? Especially as the merit sources mean merit will only increase, DT1 will also only increase. Ultimate state in theory would be everyone in DT with this system.
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
January 14, 2019, 05:40:50 AM
Just a thought:
~ votes ~
I encourage people to give merit to posts that are objectively high-quality, not just posts that you agree with.
Making votes depend on earned Merit can increase the chance of users not meriting a good post from someone they don't agree with, to keep them from having voting powers.
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